Yeah right, falsely accusing someone of racism or bigotry as much of a problem as being the victim of racism or bigotry

Ernie, a gang of predatory Asian paedophiles had been targeting young white girls in Blackpool for years. Whenever the Police became involved, these people played the race card and accused them of discriminating against them on the basis that they were institutionally racist.

2 girls disappeared – presumed murdered – and yet a report written in 2003 was kept under wraps for fear that its authors would be branded racist. It’s only in light of similar problems in other towns that it has become clear that this sort of thing is endemic, and the report has surfaced.

I’m afraid the only link I can find is on the Daily Mail Website – I’m sure many will decide that this alone renders it inadmissible to this discussion – but the local press websites aren’t much use.

So yes, accusations of racism by these people meant they were pretty much free to carry on their abuse unchecked, resulting in the murder of at least one other girl.

You still wanna roll your eyes at me? 🙄

mt – Member
You are allowed to express that view but not everyone will agree.

I stand by my view MT. If you try to understand that an opinion diametrically opposed to your own does NOT equal bigotry, you might be inclined to agree.

I find that on the whole, people’s misunderstanding of what constitutes racism and bigotry – and their eagerness to accuse others of those things – causes as many problems as actual racism and bigotry.

deadlydarcy – Member

Seriously though, I didn’t until I met one of the displaced in my first job here. His story was horrible. Had I not met him, it may well have been until the film The Last King Of Scotland that I’d have known. By all means, use it to have a go at someone, but it’s weak to do so.

Very well put Darcy…

CountZero – Member
And I’ve realised my understanding of ‘shibboleth’ is wrong, I always thought it meant;

Your understanding of the word was so well established that you felt the need to google its meaning! 🙄

Much like everything else you post, like your last entry which scoffed at others’ lack of understanding of a situation which you no doubt also googled.

Have you ever seen that episode of The Office where David Brent keeps nipping off to google Dostoevsky quotes? That’s EXACTLY how you come across.

Get used to hitting the gas out of corners earlier than you think. That’s where you’ll most likely get dropped.

And DON’T GET DROPPED! The pace might seem brutal for the first third of the race, but it will settle a bit. You need to be in the mix to get the benefit, so do whatever you have to do, bury yourself, redefine your “red line”, turn yourself inside out… But DON’T GET DROPPED!

And if it’s an evening race, don’t bank on a good night’s sleep afterwards – the adrenalin buzz from a good race keeps me awake!

Have fun though, it’s very addictive.

It’ll be an absolute disgrace if it is closed MT… Nobody has expressed a remotely racist – or even bigoted – view so far. It’s the very fact that there’s an atmosphere of fear when debating subjects like this that crimes like the grooming of young girls for sex by older Asian men has gone unchecked.

There’s a huge difference between discriminating and being able to recognise and discuss problems. And there hasn’t been any discrimination on this thread.

Doncaster Metropolitan Borough Council. In a reply to a Freedom Of Information request about this very issue.

Actually ocrider, I think herein lies my answer…

A discount for members of religious communities can be granted where a person has no income or capital of their own, is dependent on the community for material needs and where their work is prayer, contemplation, the relief of suffering or a combination of these.

It follows that if a property is occupied by 2 adults and one of them qualifies as a member of a religious community a discount of 25% would be given. If both adults qualified as members of a religious community a 50% discount would be given.

…perhaps that is what they told you and you misheard?

Perhaps. Perhaps I also misheard him tell me that nobody dare question it in case they’re accused of Islamaphobia… My hearing ain’t what it used to be 😉

In case you can’t be arsed clicking on it, in a nutshell it says the rumour is all bo!!ox.

Well, I was told by an acquaintance who works for Lancashire County Council in taxation that many of these homes were being registered as premises for religious communities and as such qualified for exemption from Council Tax. I must have misheard him.

As an interesting aside, I live in a former northern mill town, by a river, which may or may not be the one referred to in the Original Post.

There are areas of this town that are now 100% populated by Asian families. One of these largest areas bordered a rather well-to-do middle class white Christian area – you know, huge Victorian villas, copper beech-lined avenues, that sort of thing.

In recent years, Asian families started buying up these houses so their kids could go to the better schools in the leafy part of town. Now, the vast majority of that area is populated by Asian Muslims, and those schools which were once so sought after, are now exclusively Asian and English is no longer the first language.

And here’s the funny thing. Very few of the houses pay council tax. Some of the biggest and highest-yielding properties in the area are exempt from council tax, because the owners claim to have a communal prayer room.

So, the area is going to ruin because the local authority don’t have money to spend on improvements. So the remaining white Christian families are all trying to move away from the area. Maybe they’re racist, maybe they just don’t feel a part of the cultural spirit of the community in which they once felt they belonged. Maybe they want their kids to go to a school where they don’t need translators to understand the teacher, or where they’ll be taught French or Spanish, rather than Gujarati.

Now there’s a glut of properties on the market, and, due to the reasons listed above, only a small percentage of the overall population that actually want to live in that area. Therefore, the houses aren’t worth anything like what they were 20 years ago, in spite of the fact that the average prices of housing in the wider area continues to rise in line with the averages elsewhere in the region.

Another way of putting it would be to say that this area is experiencing a drop in property values because of the Muslims, who are taking over. Which, whilst no less accurate, sounds far more inflammatory to a self-righteous middle-class liberal who wants to show off how enlightened he is.

I’ll leave that with you, I’m off for some lunch… 😉

Even cheaper on e-bay

Go on…?

Molgrips, I’m astounded that someone I thought had more than a modicum of intelligence would ask that question.

Is this an attempt by you to give someone enough rope in the hope that he’ll hang himself? Or do you genuinely think that’s not a problem?

I wouldn’t want to send my child to a school in which English was the second language and 90% of the pupils spoke a different language and indulged in a completely different culture. That doesn’t make me racist!

grum – Member

I dunno, I detest all the vile unfounded crap that’s been stirred up recently, think UKIP are borderline racists, card-carrying Guardianista etc etc – I think most people who whinge about immigrants are just racist or at the very least repeating ignorant racist nonsense they’ve heard.

However, there are places where there are issues re immigration that you can’t just dismiss as racism….

…None of this is to say we should blame immigrants for everything but its also daft to pretend there’s never a single problem ever.

Grum, mate, this is no place for sensible debate; this is the which-STW-member-can-ride-the-highest-horse-to-the-highest-moral-high-ground-and-then-piss-the-highest/furthest-and-prove-how-awfully-enlightend-and-liberal-they-really-are thread.

It’s not the real world, silly! 🙄

I have a Stihl, it’s a belter. I’ve used the Ryobi one that comes with extended hedge-cutter and cultivator attachments, and it’s brilliant for the money, but the Stihl beats it for power and reliability.

It seems to go a lot longer before it needs refueling too…

Have a look at Onix bikes as an example. They ballsed up by claiming to have ‘developed’ their first bike only for the cycling press to question their integrity due to the fact that it was simply an “open mould’ Chinese frame with a pretty paint job.

They now use Rob Hayles to ‘endorse’ and, supposedly, ‘develop’ their frames. There’s still a feeling of suspicion that they’re still just charging top-dollar for something that’s readily and more cheaply available.

I’m sensing another cyclist who thinks setting up a distribution network for imported off-the-peg Chinese frames will be a great way to get free bikes…

Charlie, the conversation goes a bit further than the “rip off cervelos” you mention (assuming you’re referring to stickered counterfeits). We’re also talking about unbranded but structural rip-offs and “open mould” bikes which are made by the same suppliers as some of the “stickered counterfeits” but are also imported by reputable UK dealers.

And if Spesh recalled after “less than 10 failures”, how come there are so many Roubaixs that snap at the seat-stay Zertz inserts plastered all over the t’interweb, yet Spesh hasn’t recalled them all since 2004?

When can I collect the keys for your house?

We all know that conversation will have taken place… 😉

I hope this goes some way to clearing up some of the issues raised in this thread..

How’s about “Cervelo” on one side and “Pinarello” on the other?

Back to those points made by Specialized. It’s nothing but PR drivel. Yes, they recalled thousands of Tarmacs, but what the hell were they doing letting so much dodgy product leave the factory?

I’d put my house on the fact that there was a “Ford Pinto-esque” meeting between company accountants, engineers and number crunchers before any recall was made!

And all these horror stories that their PR mill keeps churning out, where are all these people with broken teeth? Are Ribble, Planet X, Onix and all the other UK brands that sell generic “open mould” Chinese frames getting queues of gravel-rashed, toothless and irate customers bringing back frames with catastrophic failures?

No. And that one frame that consistently and regularly appears on forums due to catastrophic failures, is the Specialized Roubaix! I wouldn’t have one given!

What on earth is the relevance of that photo???

Is that what he’s harping on about??? Jeebus. I’ve repeated this so many times that I’m getting really bored – he really should read the thread.

For a final time:

I have a real pair of Oakley Jawbones – I like the shape and they complement my handsome poker face making me look like a very stylish pro. ( 😉 ) However, I would only wear them for road biking, because I’m such a peasant and I don’t want them to get scratched on grit and tree branches, or left on the roof of my car after cold, wet night rides as I have done with countless pairs of Bolle safety glasses.

It’s similar to the bike, about which I was speaking when I started this thread. I’m such a peasant that, having spent six-and-a-half-thousand-pounds on a Cervelo R5 with the latest Dura Ace groupset, I’d rather not use it in the crash-frenzies that are Criterium Racing.

So I scratched around and found an old Ultegra groupset and wheels and built up a cheap and nasty – some might say peasant-like – Giant TCR carbon frame… But it’s a bit too small, so, being a peasant, I just thought I’d drop a measly 400 quid on a new frame. 🙄

Right, I’m off to eat some gruel.

Don’t worry fella, it’s clearly too much for you

Well, you clearly think you’ve somehow managed to win some self-perceived victory over my opinions with your rigorous cross examination, but I’m not really sure what you’ve been asking!

I’d be happy to clarify, if you’ll tell me what…

And you know for a fact that they all have interchangeable lenses, all with no/minimal distortion, held as securely as the Oakleys?

I once got banned for telling someone that I thought they were a bit of an implement. So I’ll keep my thoughts to myself… 🙄

What, pray tell, are theses vital points you’re so desperate for me to clarify?

They’re hand assembled by retired astronauts and Vietnam veterans in the United States of America…

Sorry guys, every day’s a school day. Thank you for putting me straight on that. Thank God I got the genuine DX fake Oakley Dokleys! 8)

That’s your opinion.

It’s not. I’ve actually been in a proper sunglasses shop, and I’ve seen with my own eyes – albeit UV damaged eyes – row upon row of glasses, all with curved lenses!!

Anyway, since when has UV been such a problem? Before Raymond Ban invented the tinted monocle, did our ancestors die of horrific eyeball sunburn? I’ve looked at lots of paintings of old dead people, and I’ve never seen one with unsightly tan lines or pealing skin on their eyeballs…

Surely, wearing sunnies that don’t offer UV protection would be no worse than wearing no sunglasses at all? And I only wear sunglasses to keep bugs and crap out of my eyes and to look cool… 8)

So I couldn’t care less how much UV protection they offer, that’s not why I wear them…

I think you’ll find the Jawbones in particular are extremely innovative in that they can hold a large, curved, removable lens very securely with absolutely zero distortion. I can probably appreciate that more than you because I have prescription lenses in mine and when I’m wearing them the field of vision is so good is like I’m not wearing glasses at all.

This is nonsense. A jawbone lens is no more curved, or held any more securely than in thousands of other designs of eyewear! 🙄

Let’s see a pic Aracer, just out of interest… Is it “un homage” to a frame from a top end manufacturer?

says the king of knock-offs

Really? I was happy to buy a genuine Cervelo R5 based on the fact that I felt it was the most technically advanced frameset available.

I’m happy to buy cheap Fakely jawbones for mountain biking in because a) They’re a cheap disposable item; b) I don’t really think there’s a great deal of innovation in a pair of plastic-framed sunglasses; and c) I have a genuine pair of Jawbones and several other pairs of Oakleys.

Highly intrigued about how you patent a shape as the parameters must be so exact that it would almost be impossible to infringe anyway.

You’d think it would be very difficult Creedy, but Canyon successfully sued Cervelo for copying something so simple as a tapered seat tube – uniform in diametre at the top and flaring out towards the base.

Personally, I’d have said that was a pretty generic and practical solution to increasing stiffness in the BB area. But Canyon successfully argued that they invented it and Cervelo ripped it off.

Cervelo’s R5 uses tube profiles that change from their “Squoval” profile at their widest point, down to round at the narrowest point. According to their website, there’s a great deal of thought and engineering know-how gone into developing these tube profiles, and to my mind, they’re far more unique than a tapered seat tube!

I think what’s become abundantly clear from this thread is that the majority of people seem to have been brain-washed to respect corporate branding far more than engineering innovation and intellectual properties.

I just don’t agree with the Chinese mentality of copying.

Different culture, different period in the economic development of a nation. You’d probably have struggled to fit in in 19th century Britain.

You also have to consider that the words “Apple” or “Cervelo” mean nothing to most people in China, in much the same way that the picture below could be a company logo, someone’s signature of sweet and sour king prawn balls with egg fried rice…

Just google “Fake iMac”…

Stuff like this…

You sure?

A tenner says that fish didn’t stay in that heron’s beak for longer than 1/10th of a second after that pic was taken! 🙂

Pike are incredible fish, the power – even in a small fish – is unbelievable. Might dust down the lure rods…

What I meant was, if two bikes, (one original and one fake) were cut up and x-rayed, ultrasonically inspected and compared by an independent specialist.

Your style of debating reminds me of listening to my 6-year-old nephew and his friends. 🙄

Grum, I can’t see anything in your link referring to what we’re talking about. My understanding of these “urban facts” are based on my experience of working in the print industry for nearly 25 years.

I know a few people that reproduce counterfeit labels for everything from 501 jeans to Armani suits. I was asked if I’d produce them on a few occasions (I declined) but I was given some samples. The labels were easy to spot and contained lots of typos. Around the same time, I saw exactly the same fakes (Adidas) being sold in a major sports chain.

I know the owner of the mill that produces these items, they’re one of the wealthiest families in the area – the vast majority of their wealth made from counterfeiting, insurance fraud, drugs and money laundering.

Typical spawning behaviour from a small male ‘jack’. They chase each other round trying to win the attention of the big old girls.

They’ll often charge at each other from under water with little thought as to where they might land. When I used to do a bit of piking, I had a small jack jump into my landing net whilst landing a big female.

A 2 foot pike would be FAR too big for a heron.

By the way, MTBTomo, what’s your Deng Fu like to ride? 🙂

The latter come from where the fashion house gets several sets of factories/sweatshops to use their materials to create the product they want to sell. The one who delivers first and to the right quality gets the money, the rest are left with the “real” item but no buyer.

This is typical of the utter bullshine that is spouted by those chavs with wheely cases full of snide gear that go door-to-door in highstreets.

Sadly, they seem to repeat these lies so often that they’ve actually become “urban fact*”. It’s nonsense. They’re made as a copy, and sold as a copy. Your chav with a suitcase makes up this rubbish to try and convince gullible fools that they’re actually buying exactly the same product. They’re not. It might be fine, but there is NO WAY it’s ever been commissioned by a real designer label in some sort of who-can-make-it-first-competition!!!

Well you don’t really know its identical. Not much chance of knowing either unless you xray or cut it up.

Deng Fu kindly do this on their website – their are photos of cross-secion cut frames.

Because one company invested in research, design, manufacture and marketing whereas the other company just manufactured. They didn’t need to do the research as they stole an existing design and piggy backed on that products marketing to sell their own product. The end result ‘may’ be the same but the process that the two companies took to arrive at that product is very different.

I’m not sure whether Muppetwrangler is arguing for or against, but surely this is even more pertinent when applied to the actual design of an item rather than just it’s paint job.

For the record, I’m thinking about the Ribble/De Rosa direct from XPA (or from Ribble if they offer a decent deal on frame only as they’re 3 miles down the road) or possibly the Deng Fu aero frameset.

The reason for the decision is based mainly on the post-sales accountability, and for the record, this opinion is no different to when I started the thread. XPA and Deng Fu seem to offer the best customer service and stand by their products.

And NickC, no, it would only make sense to someone with low-double-figure IQ. As I’ve said many, many times, I don’t want to ride a £3 grand frame in a crit race!!

Gary, that lawsuit regarded a tapered seat tube. Squoval is a profile developed by Cervelo, a square with ovalised covered, which is designed to put an equal proportion of the carbon material at any distance from the centre of the tube, thereby offering the greatest resistance to twisting forces.

Whereas the unbranded or (for instance) Ribble branded version is same tech at much reduced price. No deception

…But if its a ‘structural’ copy, that’s also a deception… No?

I believe Cervelo hold the patent for the Squoval tube profile. The R5-esque Deng Fu looks like they’ve copied the profile exactly.

If they have – as I suspect – taken a pair of calipers to an original, then they have infinged Cervelo’s patent.

Is that OK?