The new 11 speed shifters will work with older 10 speed rear mech. The shifters are sending an up or down signal to the mech. The shifter has no knowledge of the position of the rear mech. The rear mech manages the autotrim for the front mech and I’d be very surprised if you needed to match the F&R mechs but I couldn’t say 100%.

I’m sure the guys at BETD could help :

BETD

but I bet it’s M4 x 8 mm

Speak to our Nic @ The Bike Lodge in Innerleithen :

The Bike Lodge[/url]

is that the back end of the ‘tool shelf’ peeking out of the barn door?

so that pic is to scale then

I assume so but I wouldn’t rule out an amount of squintyness creeping in when it was resized. I didn’t intend it to be a to scale drawing for CSI style analysis, it was an illustration to show what I work with when taking these things into consideration. Perhaps you want to pop round with your calibrated metrology kit!

The tyre diameter I’m working with is 736mm BTW.

Ah those fun packed Sunday evenings eh?

nice technical drawing, is that a typical chainset ? I’m convinced.

It’s just standard output from our CAD tool that allows us to check stuff like toe-overlap. It’s a 175 crank.

As someone with size 11 feet id have to ride it to check, but based on other bikes ive owned/ridden the figures (and pic) suggests it will be horrendous.

but with size 14 boats, that kills that prospect.

Hope its not an issue that can’t be fixed and pretty sure it could be fixed relatively easily.

Unless you have size 50+ feet or above, there’s no toe overlap. Pic below shows overlap conditions with a typical size 50 shoe. It might seem strange but we do spend a wee bit of time working this stuff out.

looks like it would be quite a squeeze getting a crud guard, or any mud guard come to think of it

CG will fit fine and CG bosses are a no-cost option. It’s not designed to take full length mudguards. There’s also no rear chainstay bridge which would make putting mudguards on a problem anyway. If you want full length mudguards on a bike with 2.3″ tyres, then this bike isn’t for you.

don’t think you can just take a disc cc bike and shove on a couple 2.1 29 inch boots and say hey look at our great “new” bike.

:roll:

Gee whiz, there’s a pile of ill informed pish written on this forum at times!

Saddle’s at the wrong angle, forest could do with a trim, gravel could be cleaner but why’s no one mentioned the matching valve caps yet?

email on the way Pete.

Rock Combo off-road drop bars form 1989.

Shand?
looks a bit XC but its custom so have it your own way

This one’s not actually custom. It’s a pre-production sample of our new production 853 29er that we’ll be officially launching in the next week or so (£850 btw). Handbuilt to order so an amount of tweakage may still be possible. More pics here :

shonky facebook gallery

but yes it is a little bit XC!

Shand – can I drop you a line about my frame? Or are you too busy with full builds?

Hi Rik, I’m afraid we’re running behind on our own bikes at the moment and have had to take the decision to stop all other repair/renovation/repaint work for the moment in an attempt to catch up.

Ben Cooper at Kinetics would be the guy to contact.

I’m not a human finite element machine but just trying to visualise the forces I can’t see what usefull function these bridges serve short of another stress raiser

Stiffens the rear triangle. Without a seatstay bridge, the rear end will flex more than will be good. It’s arguable whether a chainstay bridge is needed since the bridge is so close to the BB it’s not really shortening the effective stay by much. Seatstays are generally smaller diameter than chainstays too. For what it’s worth I always fit seatstay bridges and I’ll leave out the chainstay bridge unless there’s going to be mudguards.

If its got discs all these bridges do is hold mudguards. If you dont need them to hold mudguards then cut, file and be happy.

you could get away without a chainstay bridge but you’ll need a seatstay bridge.

If it’s a decent frame it’ll probably be fine but there’s a chance that the welds could be undercut in which case cutting out the old bridges isn’t going to be a great plan.

When I used to do this sort of stuff I’d charge a minimum of £50. Not including paint obviously.

It looks like there’s some seriously quick riding going on there…. I’m impressed.

Well done guys, it will be a mk2 of what Scotland’s most eminent frame builder called “that piece of shit fat bike”

I stand by my words….

Oxy Acetylene torch with a number 10 tip. Heat up the tubes until the water evaporates. Job done.

Not being funny but you even quoted the part of my post where I said exactly the opposite. But if you want to be offended, that’s your right I’m sure.

fair enough, just wanted to put my point across… I ‘aint gonna be offended, it’s just bikes, innit? :-)

Then all is well with the world Still can’t see ’em on the fork but then I actually do need to go to Specsavers

they’re on the inside of the fork leg about 1/4 of the way up, so they don’t interfere with the calliper. There’s also an eyelet on the underside of the crown.

Anyhoo… Do you do forks on their own?

Not at the moment.

Well, there’s no way to say this without sounding like a **** but it doesn’t look like it was built to fit him- it looks like it’s too short and he’s had to push the seat back to try and sort it. Now I’m not saying that’s what’s actually happened, bike fit is a personal choice but that’s the first impression it gives me.

Wow, I’m impressed, I’ve been doing this every day for 10 years and thought I was pretty good but it turns out you can tell if a bike fit is wrong without even seeing the rider! When can you start?

It’s one of our production frames and it’s set up for the customer. The saddle is where it needs to be to get the correct setback. Which is actually smack bang in the middle of saddle rails. If you say it’s wrong though, I’m sure you’re right. :?

First impression screams bad sizing.

What a load of old gash.

Saddle set back has little to do with whether a bike is too “long” or “short”. Its also set right in the middle of the seatpost, so I’d say the seat tube angle and set back is bang on!

Ah, someone with some sense….

oh, hang on…

The frame looks ok apart from the placement of the cable stop for the rear mech outer.

Ah, ok, the Shimano OEM spec book must be wrong. Where should the stop be and I’ll let them know?

mtb cassette

It’s not.

mtb rear mech

It’s not. but if you’d prefer me to fit a short cage I will. It won’t work with the triple chainset but when the customer complains I’ll tell him not to worry ’cause some keyboard jock on STW said it’s ok.

Wow, some right gobby twonks on here tonight! :-)

Anyway in no particular order :

apart from the chainset for some reason.

I kinda agree. Not sure why, it looks big and, well, big….

And the brakes and the forks.

sigh….

Gopping bars and saddle.

bollocks to both of those….

And….VALVES/LOGOS, FFS!

calm doon. The valve holes are opposite the logo on these rims so the logo on the tyre stays beside the logo on the rim. Otherwise you’d have logos opposite each other. Don’t you know nuffink?

It’s a bit of a jack of all trades, not a true crosser, not a true road bike

erm yes.. that’s the point….

And the mahoosive excess loop of cable feeding the rear mech

Pish. It’s the right length.

it wants the centrelines of the seatstays, seat tube and top tube to intersect at a single point.

No it doesn’t. It wants the negative space of the front and rear triangles to work together. Which it does.

Slightly perturbed by it appearing to have rack mounts but not mudguard eyelets. Odd. Maybe I’m not looking hard enough.

Correct, you’re not looking hard enough. It has rack and mudguard eyelets. But don’t be perturbed, it’s only a bike.

No idea why you’d send a bike to a photoshoot withthat saddle but if you did, would you not slide it forward on the rails a bit?

No I wouldn’t, because it’s customers bike set up and built to fit him. (same answer for the stem haters and the lever reach adjustment doubters) Oh, and sending to a photoshoot means wheeling to the other side of the workshop, leaning it up against the black paper and clicking the clicky thing on the camera. Don’t over think it. :-)

Disc wheels are lighter, as they don’t need to build in the strength in the braking surface.

Except in this case, the A23 for rim brakes has a machined sidewall when the disk version doesn’t so the non disk version is actually lighter!

But I actually agree, we almost always spec the disk version but we had no stock and neither did the distributors.

Hi MC,

great to see you yesterday. I promise next time we’ll have something other than decaff in the pot!

Short sleeved shirt and a tie

The WORST office attire ever

hey @ajantom

Magura HS66 drop bar levers mated to Julie calipers, giving you hydraulic dropbar brakes.

did I have a conversation about that with you at Bespoked???

Seat tube angle looks relaxed on that Shand, lovely colourway though!

It’s a reasonably big frame (58 square ), 73º seat angle.

to make the boys wink ;-)

how’s the advertising on the forum working out for you?

Fine thanks. Sold 137 bikes off the back of this post alone. Couple more threads about this sort of stuff and I reckon I’ll be able to retire with a couple of million in the bank.

What drop outs are they?

Paragon Rocker

the inserts are replaceable so if you want to run a derailleur transmission, you can :

[/url]

Shand Stoater Plus[/url]

available with belt or chain and as complete bike or frame & fork only.

Can I email you Mr Shandcycles!

Yes, email to babymonkeybackwardsonapigbabymonkey@shandcycles.com

@MSP Why oh why oh why does somebody always have to do that.

cheque’s in the post MSP!

Isn’t Reynolds tubing American owned anyway?

No. it’s not. There’s a Reynolds composites company in the US but it’s a different thang.

What I find curious is that more and more people have started to say ‘we want local supply chain’ but clearly they are lying.

I disagree. I think probably half of our customers come to us because we fit into the local supply chain brief. It trickles down through the components they like also. My experience is that people are willing to pay for it too. We try and use smaller local companies as much as we can in our own supply chain. Not just because it’s a good thing to stick on marketing material but also it makes sense financially if you’re working in a rapidly changing dynamic environment. When we stopped building our own wheels but knew we didn’t want factory wheels, we tried a few UK wheelbuilders and although they were all good we chose to go with a local builder because logistically it makes sense. He’s already helped us out of a sticky spot or two because I can literally go to his studio and wait for him to finish wheels before driving back to the workshop with them to finish the build.

What we find people really buy into is the lack of disconnect between the consumer and the manufacturer. The customer who is buying the bike can call me on my mobile as I’m building the frame to ask questions or clarify things. I like to choose suppliers for the same reason. I had a question on a UK made crank this week and it’s fantastic that I can call the guy who’s actually in the shop running the machines and he can help me out. I also don’t think that it’s particularly necessary that they need to be geographically close. We choose small vendors all over the world and if I can pick up the phone and speak to someone who’s very close to the coal face, that makes that vendor worth more to me than a box shifter that can save me 5% but has no connection to the actual product other than as a marketing machine. Even if they’re in Asia.

However, as soon as you talk about products developed to hit a (low) price point, this almost always goes out of the window. If one of your USPs is price then all bets are off with this sort of thing.

woody74 – what’s your background? What are you building currently? Is it just you or is there a team?

I agree with much of what you say wobbliscott but building bicycles is much more than just welding. I’d also disagree that tig (for example) welding on thin wall tubing where maintaining alignment is crucial could be described as semi-skilled labour.

have tried googling Brum but come up with nowt

Baum

http://www.baumcycles.com/%5B/url%5D

No-one in the UK makes stem jigs – or any frame tooling at all – so it had to come from the States

Sorry but that’s bollock Ben! I’ve had tooling made in this country. It exists, but you need to look for it. What is missing are the nice fancy e-commerce sites that exists elsewhere.

I wonder if the reason the UK numbers are so small is due to the point that 18BikeMatt made that we have just lost capacity and supporting industries in the UK.

I don’t believe we have lost the capacity or supporting industries. It’s all here. If you think you can just pick up a phone in Taiwan and get someone to make 10 set sof dropouts for you then you’re very misguided. It’s ALL about scale and commitment. We’re not based in an particularly industrial heartland up here but I have 3 of 4 places I can go to who would make dropouts for us. Cast, CNC, whatever. But the only way these guys will look at taking the business is if the volumes make it worth while. That requires commitment from you as a manufacturer. Pissing around in a shed making 20 frames a year and then complaining about the lack of infrastructure willing to support your cottage industry isn’t going to get you anywhere.

I’m not saying that there’s no place for small scale bespoke framebuilders building 20 frames in their shed but it bears no resemblance to launching a UK made mountain bike brand. I’ve said this to Matt before but if you want things done in this industry and you’re not willing to commit to volume, you NEED to do it yourself. Take a look at what Tom at Demon does with fabrication, he’s low volume but does an incredible job without bitching about not getting other people to buy into his vision.

If you think you can build a UK made bike/frame then do it. But you need to commit. If you think you can test the water by making half a dozen frames, then you’ll run into the problems Matt has described.

Just to reiterate, it’s ALL about scale.

If a frame took about 1 week to be built by 1 person, and parts were about 200 pounds for quality tubes etc, then would it be reasonable for the frame to cost about 800? That’s about 600 pounds for around a week’s work???

ok, lets take the VAT off, now you’re down to £500. Assuming you want to have a some holidays, we’ll assume you can do 48 bikes. That’s gives you 4 weeks off. So you’ve now got an income of 24K.

I’m guessing powdercoat and decals, so how about £50 including carriage/transport back and forward.
You’re now down to £21600.

I assume you’ll be selling direct (no margin for a retailer or distributor) so you’ll have be shipping bikes out. Factor in £5 for boxes and packing material. and now we’re down to £21360

Not sure how they’re put together but I’m think you might be looking at something like £15 per frame for consumables based on that volume so, now we’re down to £20640.

What’s that you say? You want some heat on in the workshop in the winter? Ok then but it’ll cost you £200 per year. Oh, and how are people going to know about you? Marketing and advertising you say? Ok, £1K a year sound ok?

Right now we’re down to less than £20k and you still need to pay your rent, rates, water, tooling, insurance, testing, warranty, shipping/carriage, accountancy, NI, tax, website …..

And you’ll be working on your own 60hrs week.

As someone who knows about this stuff once said, “it’s simple but it’s not easy.”

[/url]
Shand Skinnymalinky[/url] by shandcycles[/url], on Flickr

just in case the others weren’t helpful enough!

[/url]
John’s expedition 29er[/url] by shandcycles[/url], on Flickr

bandit. :wink:

who? me? :oops: