Well now …. it’s all starting to look muddy around most of Scotland. Temps holding up beyond Xmas too. Somewhat different to last years prep for the Puffer which involved a full month of permanent snow tyres on just for commuting …. and many trails were pretty much just too deep in snow (bar ones that people kindly walked on to create hard-pack).
Only a few days of it this year on glass-ice before the return to winter mud this week.

Who’s betting it’ll get sub-zero again before 7/1. Those ice tyres could need changing for Mud-X’s soon …

Thanks epicyclo, getting the condition reports is great 🙂

Tour de Ben Nevis for me. Brilliant day out in fantastic mountains. Right up there with the best mtn days out, bike or not 🙂

Possible double figure temp’s later in the week … if that lasts long enough there might be a good thaw of it all. Saying that – it might just create more water to create yet more layers of ice 🙂

Roll on 7/1/12

I’ve got a Bender Fender from muckynutz, Crud on downtube, Crud out back.

Good combo.

Some helpful stuff from Hope manual on a USA site.
They actually go into more detail and describe it thus.
—-
Use small thin bladed screwdriver at end of hose. This must be prised off carefully or the inner will separate from the outer.
Or words to that effect
—-

And various other helpful instructions.
Manual I found is here in case it helps someone else one day.
http://www.greenspeed.com.au/pdfs/userguide_hope.pdf

1, If sorting hose cut the hose to lenght first then remove the insert.

Yep – and will prob have to. Should get away with losing 1.5″ at either end. Just a pain when these ‘easy’ procedures turn into removing the whole hose which means inserts at the other end too 🙁
Not sure what the Hope guys have in their video but clearly not as tightly fitted as mine.

does the rock n roll extreme lube just not work in winter?

Just that if it freezes so easily in the bottle makes me think it isn’t great on he chain if it’s all frozen up once applied.

I’ve never tried PE or MO wet lube. So will try one of these as need new stuff pretty much now’ish.
Ta for all replies.

Never used Purple Extreme – will investigate.
Last year in particular thing just got bad when lube froze. Keen to avoid !!

Where to start.
456 – tick.
Sizing – 16″ and 5’9″.

Good: Loads of fun to ride (comparison is Kona Cindercone HT / Orange 5). Seems to be changing my riding for the better (I think). Still only on course to move from rubbish to wherever’s next though. Light obviously. Nice big forks on a HT is fun. Enjoying that a lot. Doesn’t seem to rattle me to death as much as my old Alu HT. That could be the better forks of course, but suspect it’s more than that.
Bad: Short HT means a lot of spacers for me (or my back gets killed). 18″ and above it gets longer, but not long. Carrying on a bike rack is a pain in the ass, which I never thought of when buying a carbon frame. Apparently not supposed to clamp them too tight. Obvious issue is what’s ‘too tight’. Mine hasn’t broken though.

Tuppence worth …

Almost always – few times I don’t my mates usually drag ne through some tree branch hell singletrack near Dreghorn barracks, and it reminds me to wear my Adidas again. Adidas Evil Eye something or other. They’re great though.
Also to save landing on face damage, cold weather eyes streaming probs, muck in eyes/contacts esp when it’s horse manure..

Occasionally remove when raining and dark as they can be cause of accident in the first place.

Hi – as a few have said – closed now – specifically the weekend before the Tour de Ben Nevis – so must’ve been about the 15th Sept.

I guess they close it due to weather and erosion etc. Both the DH and Red will start geting hit pretty hard by the weather by then.

Me – I thought might’ve made for a good proposition to keep it open until after the Tour de ben Nevis with hundreds of Tour MTB’ers kicking about Fort Bill, some of whom may not be fancy’ing any climbing, but some Sunday MTB fun with a provided uplift … now that might have been good.

I certainly had that on the list when I booked the Tour …. first time on the Red ‘downhill’ I’d hoped …. maybe next year 🙂

Trailrider Jim – thanks for the tip. Will just stick a std post on for such eventualities as trips up that gondola I think …. next year .. next year … next year

Just wondering what you guys have to say, considering you’ve put them through some serious REAL testing.

Tried an i7 – been back twice so far – once as it arrived with a leak, second it wasn’t bled well enough when fixed the first time. Over a year later I’ve hardly used it apart from a few decent days out such as tour de ben nevis etc. It’s holding up fine now though.
Reverb – working out of the box just fine. Though post does seem to be very ‘dry’ to the touch compared to the i7 which naturally feels ‘slidy’, so I do worry about the seals etc, but hey ho – it works.p

Agree re gaiters. Simple and effective solution. I just lob some hillwalking gaiters on occasionally. They cover a lot of the shoe. and I did spray the shies with some repellent last Winter just before the Puffer. Seemed to stop them getting as ‘soaked thru’ as normal where they were exposed. Gaiters did the rest.

Can it be used really for ddays in the mountains – absolutely. Have spent quite a few days on random trails in Scottish mountains and it’s been when it’s shone the most. Whether Torridon, Gorms, Tour de Ben Nevis. It doesn’t matter. These are the days when I realise how good the bike is.
Looks – dunno, but then I never did looks in cars either 🙂

Aye – hope two lads leaving Puke hill got on ok with tht wrist injury – looked a bit grim.

Never found such a good use for a sock…..

PS. Funniest moment ….. ‘watch my frame’ says I worrying about bike …. then looked at leg. Ooops …

Grass cut, lots of scrubbing of leg. Wine seems to be making the pain go away 🙂
Cheers for the help and chum down the hill and to the three folk with med kit further down.
Note to self: stick to sensible places like tour de ben nevis 🙂

PS. Nice new ditch to watch out for down Puke Hill – the wee bit that had a green mat is now a decently wide ditch. Open my eyes next time 🙂

Top top event. Really enjoyed KLL descent. Well chuffed with sub 7 hours. Clearly didn’t understand the stages thing cos hanging around Stage 4 after dibbing while wondering how best to attack it the next time I visit seems to have a somewhat detrimental effect on position, haha. Would do the me again though – had never seen that before.
Buddy did that descent with F+R pads down to backing metal. Hilarious.

Gonna have to do this as a day trip in reverse sometime. Less hike a bike.

kennyp – you were only 5 seconds behind Pete on Stage 4 !! Rock on.

Great weekend ….

If it’s a normal 1 1/8th steerer (which it sounds it is) it will be fine

Yeah – has worked fine right enough – ta. Now just need to sort spacers, but that’s another thread 🙂

So.

Went with (or planned to go with) ZS top and Trad bottom cup.
To cut a loooong story short – I got ZS cups top and bottom in the end from 18bikes – poss small picking error – and then me forgetting I’d asked for a trad bottom cup D, I just fitted it, and to be fair – they look good.
Problem – now need even more spacers.
Have a 188mm steerer, ZS Hope cups, X4 stem, and have fitted all 30mm of the spacers I got from 18bikes, and am now about 20mm short – nightmare.

So – is it ok from an ‘engineering’ point of view to have 50mm of spacers above a 90mm TT? Any handling issues?
Should I invest in a cup remover and buy a trad bottom cup? (My own fault for fitting the ZS – had got very mixed up re what I was expecting by the time it came to fitting).

Any good ideas?

18 bikes and the hope web site to the rescue;

HOPE Bottom Headset Cup Complete 2011 CUP D (1.5inch Traditional to 1 1/8inch Stepdown)
HOPE Top Headset Cup Complete 2011 CUP 2 (1 1/8inch Integral/Zerostack)

with the external bottom cup to keep the fork crown clear of the frame.

Errrrr – this is a worrying thread, having just installed Hope ZS top and bottom cups following a conv with 18bikes aswell, who were very helpful and also suggested Cups D & 2.
In my case zerostack though, so now little worried that the forks will now not fit (Fox Float) the c456 when they arrive.
Anyone know?

On One and 18 bikes been very good answering q’s, so do i really have anything to worry about?

Kind of think On One are missing a trick in not providing some advice re this kind of stuff

Thanks andyl

I’ll give them a shout then – would be really useful to get a FAQ on the website with torque settings for the carbon 456. And there’s not one there just now.
The instructions I’ve got are just the Shimano ones which say buckets of torque for a metal frame and ‘contact manufacturer’ for carbon. Didn’t get any frame ones.

Still, I’ve found On One’s cust service really good so see how I go.
Otherwise it’s 5Nm for everything and hope it stays put.
The c456 frame is crying out for a one page install sheet that might say:

Care instructions: Blah blah (i.e. how to clean etc)
Buld info:

Dropout – do / don’t use carbon assembly paste on dropouts before bolting to frame, torque to use = xx Nm

FD clamp – ditto

BB – just torque though I suspect I’ll never get them to whatever torque is needed anyway in this case. BB torque always dead high.

Headset – again, how hard do you turn the handles on the press – until an avg strength person can’t turn them any more or what.

Seatpost clamp – do / don’t use ass paste on inside of clamp, torque setting = ?

And some comment re your andyl on front mech ….

Front mech – errrr, dunno how conventional mine is or not 🙂 XT multifit top clamp downswing????

Follow on assembly thoughts ……….

On One don’t supply any torque settings for attaching FD clamp, BB, dropots, seat clamp.
Anyone managed to get info on this at all?

Thule 591 – yep makes sense.
Will see what I can do with the Thule towbar rack.
On One’s thoughts are just be careful with the top tube and wrap it in some padding if you do. And theie thoughts on the bar between seattube and headtube were positive – even with the small contact point of the hooks themselves.
Therefore – will get one of the Thule 982 adapters and probably pad the HT/Seat tubes in use too.

chakaping – yeah, ws kind of thinking just get on with it to be honest, but will prob acquire the adapter, which hopefully won’t be ridiculously priced.

Yep – hit spanner hard with hammer – worked for me. And it took a few whacks too.

The head tube is pretty short, so watch out for maybe having to cut down your steerer. Arguably who cares if you don’t wanna swap the fork back out again to another bike, but if you might want to do that then plan for spacers. The head tube length (actual) is 90mm for a 16″ vs the website 105mm. Think that means the 18″ is correct at 105mm, but best get someone with one to confirm that.

Otherwise go for it (I have).
16″ and 5’9″.

Thanks wwaswas.

zero stack keeps the front of the bike low – useful with long travel forks which tend to raise the front end anyway – particularly on smaller frame sizes.
I’d go with 15mm under and 15mm over the stem to start with and then adjust to suit.

I’ll go with traditional cups methinks which will use up some of the steerer height.
Tricky balance between settin the bike up the way it’s ‘meant’ to be and using up a long steerer
Cos sounds like if I go hope zero stack then I’ll just end up needing more spacers.

It’s a carbon 456, it looks like it was carved out of soap then left in the bath. A stack of a dozen spacers will be the icing on the cake. (I do like mine, very much, I just try not to look at it)

Hahaha. Well so be it then. Hopefully with wheels and tyres it will be gripper than soap.
Need to get it built and out on one of Wed evening rides….

Every week I learn new stuff.
Not sure what a +10 headset is. Is that basically making the bottom assembly 10mm longer or something to save spacers at the top?

For the geometry experts out there – to use the bike as it is designed I’m tryig to work out what changes the geometry /angles etc an what doesn’t.

Brant – thanks – I’ll be going with it, have already got some if the supporting kit anyway, just want to fin the best way to configure the bike now. Esp since I’ve got new forks for the bike.
Advice from you guys re what will affect geometry etc would be handy though.

Now becoming clear I don’t want zero stack headsets though I assume 🙂
What are zero stack about anyway? Is that because people just want really clean lines on their bikes or is it for functional reasons like keeping long head tubes short in overall A to C terms?

bit tricky to see at this size (follow this link and you can magnify it) but here’s my c456 with the Hope lower as described above;

Nice bike. Looks good as a singlespeed too.
Was that easy enough to set up SS – relevant mounts etc?
I fancy doing that from Nov onwards ……..

For some reason didn’t spot the latest updates to this thread last night.
Thanks for all the updates folks. Now even more looking fwd to a complete DIY bike 🙂

Spacers is something that bothers me now so started a specific thread about that.
Cos I’ve measured the HT on the 456 and it’s precisely 90mm.
Argh.

If it comes to it I’ll just have to pick one fork for one and be done with it.
A bit of trial and error first to see what I prefer would be good though.

Already leaning towards it being the Float 140’s that’ll end up on the 456 permanently. But less keen on making them unusable on any other bike ever if cut that short.
Orange 5 can have the shiny new ’12 Talas 150’s 🙂

Nice bike !! Forks look impressive 🙂 New Kashima’s I presume.

Very helpful chap at 18bikes pointed me in the direction of a
Hope Headset Cup Complete D (Bottom 1.5″ Trad stepdown 1 1/8″) EC49/30 for the bottom, and a
Hope Headset Cup Complete 2 (Top 1 1/8″ Integral/Zerostack) for the top.

And that appears to be job done. Hope HS’s listed here, and makes sense to me – looks like the bottom cup is fitting in the tapered (49) bottom of the headtube, but expects to meet a 30mm race.
http://www.hopetech.com/webtop/modules/_repository/documents/HOPEHEADSETS2011Web.pdf

Anything I’m missing here?

One additional consideration seems to be Head Tube length – I had originall planned on a difference of 15mm in HT length between a Five and a c456 – Im seeing threads that state that the HT length of the c456 on the website is wrong.
Roll on measuring tape time tomorrow. Not sure i fancy 30mm of spacers quite as much.

Thanks all – so using the reducer lengthens the headtube effectively (that’s A – C, I assume)
wwaswas – is that what you’ve done?

Have pinged 18bikes a question.

Bikes – never simple.

And aye – was thinking the same re 150 Talas vs the 140
And in time might cut steerer to fit the 456 perfectly but for now will prob keep the options open.
And brakes – aye, additional faff there right enough.

Cool. Thought there must be a way. 18bikes for me then. Will give them a call.
Otherwise would’ve been aswell just getting a tapered fork for the 456.
Good to have the option to swap though.

Current instinct is to see what the Talas 150 feels like on the ‘5’ and use the Float 140’s on the 456. Then just see how I get on.
Roll on 456 build time soon then.

How easy or otherwise was that Hope headset to fit to the 456 by the way?

What have you put on? Can’t tell specifics from the pic – for a full size pic somewhere on Flickr or such like?

Anyway – looks the dogs whatevers no matter what – always interested in what people have put on their 5’s though.

Nice colour too BTW !!

dab

Sounds good re approachable …. that’s one of my ‘mental’ problems with the rock step entry into the Wormhole – can’t bring myself to even try it 🙁 But other stuff where you can see where you’re going I tend to deal with better. Think I’m better giving it a miss until I can do simple stuff like get round the little corner in Pie Run though 🙂
Air’s rock – yuck. Get it’s more intimidating but too much so for me. Even if someone gives me a self controlling bike it’s another tough ‘mental’ one that.

So Red at Nevis … mebbe next year … mebbe 🙂

Saying that … spare day after the Tour of Ben Nevis …. 🙂