Mr Agreeable – Member

Increased cycling = increased safety?

So you think an increase an cycling would decrease safety?
Or do you not know what you think?

I live on a 30mph road where everyone does 15-20 mph.

OMFG PEOPLE ARE THINKING FOR THEMSELVES!!!

What is it about commies (that is, the general STW pop.) always wanting to dictate and be dictated to? :?

It’s hard to pull good wheelies with a stick up your arse. :wink:

Mr Agreeable – Member

The benefits of “safety in numbers” are actually a lot less clear than the CTC et al would like to you to think.

http://crapwalthamforest.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/what-wont-bring-about-mass-cycling-6.html

If you look at a country like the UK, where there hasn’t been a big enough increase or decrease in cycling to be statistically significant, then yes, it isn’t that clear cut.

Ignoring bullshit blogs for a second though, and looking at the wealth of statistical data available using countries all over the world, it would certainly appear that increased cycling = increased safety.

Of all the places where I had imagined I would have to defend cycling as a safe and beneficial mode of transport, this wasn’t one of them. :(

GrahamS – Member

Yep fraid so. Road injury rates are higher on foot or bikes than they are in cars – so getting some people out of cars can mean an increase in injuries.

But the more cyclists, the lower that injury rate is, and fewer cars surely means fewer car crashes?

I’m sure you’re not, but it sounds like you two are trying to argue against cycling as a safe mode of transport!

miketually – Member

Increased safety for cyclists, as a percentage or per mile or whatever. But the number of accidents overall could still increase as you’re still moving people out of cars and onto bikes.

Surely my bold is the only important metric?
Of course, 1 million cyclists will have more accidents than 100, but I’m certain (from many sources found in one of the helmet threads) that an increase in cycling leads to an increase in safety.

The national trend was a 2% increase, as already stated on this thread (possibly attributed to weather).

I got them from the internet. :-)

ahwiles – Member

from the telegraph

which leads with the headline:

20mph limit has not made roads safer

In Portsmouth, the new, lower speed limit applies to all vehicles, at all times, on 94 per cent of the city’s streets. It is not enforced by speed cameras or road humps, but relies on drivers to obey limit signs.

The analysis, carried out by the consultants Atkins on behalf of the DfT, found that prior to the reduction in the limit, an average of 18.7 people per year were killed or seriously injured on the streets covered.

After the reduction this rose to 19.9 per year.

Taking into account people with less serious injuries, overall road casualties fell by 22 per cent after the scheme was introduced.

so, not really.

2010 – 92 KSI
2011 – 143 KSI

Care to dispute that?

We are talking Stockholm syndrome, right? :?

ahwiles – Member

[sceptical] really? [/sceptical]

Y, RLY.

Some things are hard to swallow when they go against what is to the individual, the natural and obvious conclusion.

For me, legalizing heroin sounds like an abhorrent suggestion, but get over the initial emotion and you can start to understand why it could work.

miketually – Member

Prevention = everybody stays at home and never leaves.

Although, 100% of domestic accidents happen in the home…..

…and dwarf the number of accidents we have on our roads, just to keep things in perspective.

He’s funny, he can come to my party. :-)

Absolutely.
I’m just a prevention is better than cure kinda chap, that is all.

GrahamS – Member

Looking at raw figures like that is useless because it doesn’t look at how many people were making journeys.

Then look at KSIs per mile driven; t’is the same.

And looking at one year for a trend is useless, especially in a single city, because one major accident can cause a huge “rise” (e.g. one serious bus/coach crash could mean up to 80 more KSIs)

You are right, but I don’t remember any serious bus/coach crashes in Portsmouth that year, do you?

miketually – Member

More people walking and riding?

Are you saying you think lowering speed limits increases danger?

More people riding = increased safety, so it’s not that.

I’ve already stated what I think; that removing people’s responsibility decreases safety.

miketually – Member

With all due respect, etc.

So how do you explain Portsmouth?
You know, the place where they introduced a blanket 20 mph limit and KSIs went up by over 50%?
I think the national trend was an increase of 2%, so you can knock a couple of points off if it helps. :-)

MidlandTrailquestsGraham – Member

On a similar theme, “shared space” seems to be working in Poynton.

Shared space is a great, and proven idea. It forces (all) people to be responsible for each other. This leads to increased safety.
Removing responsibility decreases safety.

miketually – Member

All the evidence shows that 20mph limits do work.

With all due respect, that’s utter horseshit.

nick1962 – Member

Can we not limit these sort of posts to one paragraph and/or five bullet points?

*Bought some bits that didn’t fit my bike.

*Paid someone to try and fit them.

*They cocked it up.

*Despite me knowing they were ****, trusted their work on safety critical components.

How’s that? :mrgreen:

Steve-Austin – Member

why not?

because you have a frame that is machined to a tolerance of 27.2. wedging something in there will ruin the fine machining that has been done

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I’m with you in that I would rather have a nicely fitted seatpost in my frame, but from my experience, seat tube internal diameters are all over the shop.
In fact, most frames are disappointedly bodged together if you check them to any degree of accuracy.

Cheap motoring = MkII Nissan Micra.
Should be able to buy, insure and still have £2-300 to spunk on bike tat you don’t need. :D

Speshpaul – Member

sbob yes you are right, best not to make yourself look stupid, but i’m affraid you’ve done the damage already.

if you read the post you’ll see…. oh well.

white lines – overtaking, solid don’t, broken do.
the pics show a broke line so they don’t preclude overtaking.

still can’t beat MSM thou. that is the most basic of all.

You are spectacularly missing the point.
The problem highlighted was one of attitude, which you exhibit again, in the above quote.
I’ll have another go at explaining it:
What does a 30 sign mean?

Speshpaul – Member

sbob. still don’t see you backing up you’re white line comments.
But to clarify; arrangance is indicative of a poor attitude towards safe road use, and is incorrect

When trying to be clever, it is normally best not to look stupid. :lol:

I’ll ask you again:
Which road marking permits overtaking?

You’ll get there eventually…

SpeshPaul,

I’m not sure exactly what your first point is about as you have snipped my quote so it doesn’t make sense and then replied with a crazy conclusion about my logic which also doesn’t make sense, but returning to your first post;
which road marking does permit overtaking?

The second bit was an attempt at humour.

Highway Code rule 167.

allthepies – Member

Why don’t the road markings go “solid” at road junctions then ?

If you couldn’t cross the line it wouldn’t be a junction. :wink:

But to clarify; stating that the paint on the road says you are permitted to overtake is indicative of a poor attitude towards safe road use, and is incorrect.

Speshpaul – Member

This-

The road markings show that your are permitted to overtake.

No they don’t. :idea:

It’s basic highway code stuff; don’t overtake past junctions.

He says I was overtaking somewhere I shouldn’t.
I say he should he have signalled. And should have checked his mirror

You’re both right.
Yay! :D

I’m firmly in the “grow a pair” camp.

ETA: I meant balls, not another pair of tits, just to clarify.
:P

swamp_boy – Member

Ian Dury

next question?

Top shout. 8)

I wouldn’t piss on Billy Bragg if he was on fire.
Unless I wanted to set fire to him a second time.
I will admit some of his songs at least have some comedic value, when listened to from the setting of his cliff top mansion. :wink:

gavtheoldskater – Member

what tipped the scales in favour of that one was that as well as the screen you could use the viewfinder as well.

That was why I chose my compact, and it has proved to be a wise decision.

legend – Member

I’d put that £150 on a bet saying the remap doesn’t get you 10hp

This man speaks sense.

I fly out to exotic lands in about 12 hours, and return in February.

[/smugmode] :D

piedi di formaggio – Member

Pretty Scandinavian girls, zombie nazis

That’s all you needed to say. :wink:

Sod what you’ve seen; get ITV on for some Gremlins action!

The plug for my washing machine is in the cupboard directly under the kitchen sink. :lol:

deadlydarcy – Member

Well, I’m 41 and still manage skinnies. :wink:

You’re also probably the type of Jessie who uses moisturiser and Apple products, when you should be out practising the noble and ancient art of shin kicking. :P

Moe – Member

What is it that’s said? You can choose your friends but you can’t choose your family.

But you can choose to import your woman from overseas, therefore maintaining a healthy distance between yourself and the in-laws. 8)

Here’s a top tip for buying Jam/Marmalade: look at the ingredients at the back and count them. If the number exceeds two, toss it into a skip with the rest of the muck mentioned above and continue your search.

Glad to be of service.

I used to have bullhorn bars, which were great with the extra hand position.
Then I got some riser bars that actually fitted.

wishiwascalledsteve – Member

Currently have some flat bars which are fine

They’re obviously not!