SRAM probs.

Normal flat bars. Drops or swept back/alt for me.

12/13 speed. 9 is boss. 10/11 is tolerable/available.

Wet lube.

I would say bikepacking bags, but I’m saving up for a non-frame-rubbing, non-wobbly-sack-of-shite set up for camping so might have to use them a while longer.

Dropper post. Cos going up quickly means more to me than going down more quickly than I am comfortable with.

I used to say alu nipples, but am slowly changing my mind.

Straight pull spokes. Ugh.

35mm anything. I’d still prefer 25.4 bars and stems. My quill stem road bikes are more comfy. After 20 years of stiffer = better people are realising that ain’t always true.

Tool bottle cage. I’d like to, but I like my ‘systems’ and wouldn’t want to rely on it only to need 2x water bottles on summer and have to change my tool carrying methods.

Gels/dextrose/expensive sugar nonsense.

And… Suspension forks. For now.

Check out these: https://standert.de/

High end scandium. About £1000, which is pretty flipping posh for alu to me.

Dedaccai tubing, made in Italy. Like a German Condor.

Mate worked on one in shop (in Rotherham!) and thought it was well made.

I don’t love a 44mm headtube) on road bike (pref straight 1 1/8 or tapered) but otherwise lovely

1. Park tool guide and hacksaw.

2. Workout where to cut. Cut to within and inch or so. Fit old stem to bike Inc headset preload etc. Spacers on top of stem with leccy tape round the spacers to hold them still. Shroud headset/working parts with large rag. Hacksaw and file.

3. If carbon, use a tile cutting blade on hacksaw and go from both sides

Also re availability, in most developed countries, 10 vs 11 speed kit is similarly easy to find and often 11 speed stuff is cheaper for the same group (e.g. 10 spd 105 vs 11 speed). If it’s Tiagra 4700, 11 speed mechs are compatible.

If I was going touring, as you suggest, I’d be sticking with cable plus STIs or even bar end shifters.

The TRPs can be serviced if they’ve stopped working well – there is a there’s on here about it.

Also make sure your TRPs have the little plastic cover that protects from dirt and is held on by the pad retaining pin. (On mine, one had this, one didn’t and the one that didn’t went pretty shitty after a few muddy rides).

You can get it from Triton, Upgrade, etc about 6.99. Annoying but useful.

If you’re looking at spending 300 quid plus, have you got everything you need to make your touring enjoyable? Good rack, panniers/luggage, sleeping kit?

No way I would swap Shimano + TRP calipers for SRAM hydros unless I got a bargain on Rival or above. And even then I would wonder what I was doing.

Shimano MTB post mount calipers work with their hydro road STIs, as mentioned. Dig about for the correct info re hoses/olives. Or you can still find the post mount road calipers some places. The calipers are really cheap compared to the levers.

If I was going with thru-axle I’d just go chain tensioner. Looks nicer without, but for me the appeal of an SS is simplicity, reliability and weight rather than looks. A SS bike makes it worth getting some weight weenie parts where on a geared bike they wouldn’t make much difference. (Yes I know a tensioner weighs something).

Mates’ bikes with adjustable dropouts run geared and SS have always slipped.

If using QR, I find track ends work fine with a good Shimano QR. This is making me regret selling my Cotic Simple…

BUT… If using drop bars with cable discs I’d want an adjustable dropout that also had the brake mount on it, as the brakes are enough faff to set up effectively in the 1st place and pads need to be pretty f’in close

I’m not too worried about what it says on the tyre. Tyres rarely come out at what is printed on them. But if a tyre measures Xmm using vernier calipers, and the manufacturer States it had clearance for Xmm, it should have. The operative word being ‘clearance’, not ‘just about fit’.

The latest gen of Shimano rim brake calipers are supposed to take 28-30mm tyres, so there’s no reason for this area to be the limiting factor from the frame. Chainstay clearance on racy bikes is a different issue.

I remember reading an All City blog stating that one of their bikes had ‘legal clearance’ with Xmm tyres and Ymm tyres fit without rubbing but they couldn’t ‘officially’ recommend them…

Interesting about your Bowman. Also worth pointing out the new/current Aitheins have less aggressive geometry – the old red and black ones had really long and low geo – around 10-15mm more in reach for a given size.
The current ones are very similar to the Bowman Palace – taller head tubes for a given frame size without being ‘endurance’. My size small gives me about 6cm drop with the max 30mm spacers and the stem flipped down. At 5ft 8 I’m on cusp of small/med. There was also a QC issue with the Kinesis bit I won’t go into it as it was more cosmetic than functional and I can still ride the bike as intended.

Edit: My Aithein is a rim brake one. I’ve got it down to around 7.7 kgs with a set of very light but sensible (28/24h) 1350g wheels (about £350 from DCR). Suspect to achieve the same weight with discs would have cost me a hell of a lot more.

I went for a Bowman Palace.
On the plus side, it’s incredibly light, the paint is amazing, the geo is spot on and it would make a great perfect road summer bike or crit racer.
Unless they’ve updated it, beware the tyre clearance. I used 25mms contis that measured exactly 25mm and there was fag paper clearance to the rear brake bridge, i.e. any grit etc would have rubbed. Bowman claimed it was my narrow ‘old school’ (2010-ish) rims that were the problem, and suggested using nominally narrower tyres (e.g. 23mm) on a wider rim to ‘flatten’ the profile of the tyre! I tried a couple of other wheel/tyre combos including some wider modern rims and the clearance was still not anything like satisfactory to say its designed to use 25s. With Ultegra calipers the pads were near the top of the slot. I think Bowman even went as far as suggesting I was using ‘incompatible kit’. Some of you may agree, but to me that would be madness!

Before the tyres were pumped up to 90+psi and this issue became stark, the bike built up in the stand weighed bang on 8kg with said wheels (aluminium aero, so not light) and a mix of ultegra and 105 kit, carbon post, alu cockpit.

I prefer to go for kit from smaller, UK-based companies but the flip-side is that any problems you have, they tend to take quite personally – you might well be speaking to the designer, salesperson and customer service guy all in one go. And I imagine a return has bigger financial implications for them. There also seems to be a bit of an issue around criticising a more ’boutique’ product, as if you as a customer don’t ‘get it’ if you have a problem with it, whereas there are 100s of forum posts slagging off On One kit which the company takes in its stride.

From what I can see, the 10/10 review of the bike available online used 23mm tyres, so this issue may not have been apparent.

Unfortunately though, mine went back and I replaced it with the latest Kinesis Aithein, which is a touch heavier and less pretty, but will take 28s easy, even 30s (not tried). All it took was designing it so the brake bridge sits higher and the pads are near the bottom of the slot…

Do it. Consider some slightly swept back bars – I found not-very-swept flats/risers on my commuter un-comfy for more than a few miles.

Isn’t that the point?

I think it’s just that some people do recognise the supposed benefits, but either through a. trying the product or b. considering the possible benefit versus affordability & hassle, are of the opinion that it’s not a good idea. That lots of people want to talk about it maybe says something about a culture of must-have/upgrading present on the internet (much less present in real life I reckon).

Yes – how did I miss this one!

Honorable exception maybe to internally routed rear brake cable in top tube on a road bike where full cable outer is used. Although even then I’m questioning the point – full cable outer would be used maybe for a winter bike – where you probably wouldn’t want extra holes in your frame.

I have a few of these, accepted as compromises on the bikes I wanted to buy/build up… I’ve tried to avoid including things which I was a bit annoyed as I had to buy new parts but on reflection are decent improvements.

– 10, 11, 12 speeds on any non-road bike
– 11, 12 speeds on a road bike
– 1x anything (many on ‘gravel’ bikes realising now that a sub-compact 2x with a more compact cassette is preferable – has been possible for decades using square taper triples). And thus also 10t cogs and requisite freehubs.
– Thru axles on the rear of any non-mountain bike.
– Press-fit BBs
– Integrated (i.e. drop-in directly to frame) headsets.
– Tapered steerer tubes on about 75% of bikes that have them.
– 1 1/8th steerer tubes on steel road bikes (seriously – a 1 inch threadless/ahead set up rides beautifully – benefits of modern stems and bars with compliant ride). Current obsessions with wide tyres on road bikes might not be so prevalent without overly stiff frames/forks.
– Steep seat tube angles on any bike not a TT bike.
– Short chain stays (for the type of bike) on any bike.
– Flat mount on ‘gravel’ bikes.
– Flat whites.

Cotic Escapade. Lowish BB so handles nicely. Used mine for a 160km gravel audax in horrendous weather and it coped. Now using with mudguards and 28mm tyres as a winter bike. Frame on own weighs about 1900g, which puts it in same bracket as condor fratello. Clearance for proper road chainsets. Suspect they will update at some point with thru axle at the rear in which case the price (for current model) could drop. But 599 for a light ish steel frame with full carbon fork is competitive in today’s market. At that price you could build a pimpin’ spec for 2k. Mine is a mix of s/h and spare parts – Halo white line wheels, 10spd Dura Ace/105/Tiagra for total spend of less than 1000

Cheers for replies.

Also found this, for anyone else following thread:

What are my options with a basic trainer?

I got one. It’s nice. Building it up tonight.

I picked up an Escapade frameset last week. Generally I’m wedded to more trad looking bikes – steel forks, straight steerers, external headsets, etc, but I’m itching to finish building it up now.

Mins fitted with the Hope offered by Cotic.

No issues in over a years riding in all weathers and terrains.

So it’s a goodie then?!

If they are being vague go to Jason Rourke instead, he’ll build exactly what you want (I specced 28c clearance on my recent road frame off him), all done right and works with normal drop brakes, using Columbus minimal forks. His right hand man Wayne will happily talk you through anything before committing. Great service there.

That would be pushing the budget – I’m already stretching with this one.

Put down a refundable deposit on the basis of adequate clearance for 28s?

Pretty poor of them not to know/answer TBH, this is a reasonable query.

I agree it is reasonable, especially given that disc braked road bikes are changing the norm so that even with rim brakes people are wanting a tad more width as standard. Their view was ‘there are lots of different 28s’, i.e. some will measure at 26mm, some at 30mm, whereas I’m asking about a true 28, as measured with verniers, which my current rims and tyres are. And because I know from other bikes that it is eminently possible as long as the brake bridge is high enough to put the pads towards the bottom third of the slots on a standard reach caliper.

I think if I put down the deposit and make a point about ensuring the brake bridge is high enough, as a paying customer, they will hopefully go with it.

Yes and no – they are a bit non-committal, which I understand given I’ve just been enquiring so far. Having worked in a small bike shop it can be frustrating the amount of time spent answering enquiries from people who might not become customers. I think if I put down a deposit I might be able to push them a bit on it.
Ta.

Any other experiences? Ta!

Cheers! I’m having the Audax Club built in Oversized 853 with a 1 1/8 steerer, and no rack/ guard eyelets so almost an Olympus Road but just with the slightly longer chainstays of the Club, to ensure 28mm without guards. I think it will be ok but just looking for a real world example

Cheers… Yeah I suppose the obvious answer is to get some tubeless tyres that I’m sure I can remove by conventional means if necessary! Maybe 35mm rear, 37 ish front…

<span style=”color: #444444; font-size: 12px; background-color: #eeeeee;”>If my memory serves, the Sugino only goes down to a 30t inner ring, which to me seems not worth the price of the chainset, given that the OP can fit a 33t inner if he already has a 110 BCD chainset.</span>

I haven’t already got a spare 110 compact – hence the purchasing dilemma! My climbing of late has been all over the place – was fine on a hilly Peaks ride yesterday in 39 – 28 on (old steel) road bike. Well it was hard, but in a good way. Yet found 36 – 30 hard on some gravellier climbs on CX bike last weekend, so am erring towards a 1:1 for looser surfaces, especially given the Reiver is 200k of loose surfaces and I’m in unknown territory over 150k

If it’s 74bcd inner the Sugino should take aftermarket inner rings, such as Spa/Stronglight, at extra cost of course.

<span style=”color: #444444; font-size: 12px;”>it’s a little bit under geared with 12/28</span>

Interesting to note – Yeah I looked at the Praxis but was put off by the proprietary chainrings and lack of a separate inner BCD – 32t the smallest possible.

Really, the Stronglight/Spa is the better option for now as it allows funds for nicer rings and can try out a few ring sizes from existing stock.

Plus, there are a few nice light square taper BBs still available – there’s a Tange hollow axle one at 221grams for £25 – only 1 gram more than a £115 TA one!!!

Andy – I was looking at some cheap Tiagra chainsets too but 92mm bcd inner rings not widely available outside of 30 teeth – I’d probably want a 32t inner ring.

I know the Stronglight option is probs the most versatile, if not very sexy…

One option is a 33t inner ring on a compact double with maybe a 32t on back: 33t 110mm bcd rings more widely available than they were…

I don’t blame you for looking at a 28 though – if I was riding loaded up I’d consider the same

<span style=”color: #444444; font-size: 12px;”>Assuming it’s 10 speed, you can also use a 9 speed MTB rear mech which’ll let you use a 36 cassette</span>

I will be using a 9 speed MTB mech with 10 speed road shifters (probably an XTR m952) but don’t want to go over my existing 12-30 cassette – otherwise would have just gone with a normal road compact double, with 34 or 36 cassette but not a fan of big cassettes and dangly mechs on road-ish bikes.

Having said that… it’s starting to look like the cheaper/easier option to get a modern crank with a near 1:1 ratio… ugh.

This is the ideal… but £££

Sugino OX601D Crankset (part 1)

This is more realistic:

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1520/24542906801_b11fe313ee.jpg

Have plumped for a Touring Plus  – one of the few available apparently – looks like may have been discontinued in favour of the newer ‘Explore’ range.

Keep an eye out for my eTrex in the classifieds!

The comments about needing a longer stem if using a flat bar are true, but you can mitigate this to an extent by using a wider flat bar. Obviously riding a 42cm flat bar would be horrible and allow no room for shifters/levers. I found a 56cm or 58cm flat bar OK on my cross bike for races, with 2-3cm longer stem than the drops. Still went back to drops though – agree mostly with the comments about getting the drops higher – best for braking control on technical sections. I massively disagree with advice about getting a smaller CX bike than road bike to make it more manoeuvreable – it just results in bars too low.

If you use a conventional post you get a more comfortable seated ride from the greater post compliance

:DI get an ugly bike and greater stress on the seat tube/top tube junction. :D (Even with 10cm+ in the frame). Unlikely to be a problem at my weight and riding tendencies, but could be less than ideal for others.

Plus, if I’m riding a steel frame with 2.4 inch tyres, I’m OK for seated comfort I reckon. I see the point about being able to use a dropper post with greater drop, but I suppose I wouldn’t have seen the need for this in an all-round bike in the past, but if it’s the way things are going…

I’m assuming you think a seatpost should only be 350mm long

Er, not exactly – I have a 410mm one (could *just* get away with a 350 on the min line) but in the past where seat tube lengths still bore a more direct relationship to head tube length / stack height, this would quite probably indicate a poor fit. E.g. I have an old orange clockwork frame in 17 inch which is probably a bit small due to the low stack height, but would take a 17 inch in most modern trail bikes with no worries over stack height (too high if anything). I guess now with longer travel forks and 650b/29er wheels front ends are sufficiently high that this is somewhat irrelevant. Too short ST with a high front end can still be fugly though.

Re the Soul pics, prefer the older frame for looks – the fork on the newer one’s handsomer, but what really makes me puke is the dinner plate on the back of the new one. But that’s a different conversation…

Or even… this:

I suppose I just think all MTBs should look like this:

Ok, so fag packet calculations show me that I could ride the Medium Soul (16.7″ ST) with a 390mm Reverb post, with enough post in the frame, which is OK. But the 340mm Reverb would be out.

I think I’m just anal about having to use over-long/short components to get bikes to fit, as an indicator of less than ideal fit. Possibly coming from road bikes… But if bikes are being designed like this intentionally, I suppose I won’t argue.

So it’s probably workable for most people – I’m sure Cotic have thought about it. But it’s still short.

Edit: I also think it’s a bit ugly – if I had more £££ than sense I’d have a non-suspension corrected / short travel HT frame built with a taller seat tube, less sloping TT, but the reach of a medium-ish size. Maybe that’d be a different bike completely, but I’d be prepared to bet it’d do most of the same stuff most Souls will do.

Check out Rhino Hero

Ah, these new fangled up and down seat posts. You mean one of these right?

So it’s more that it might necessitate the use of a dropper post, than accommodate it, assuming you want the right reach…

Rigid fork, singlespeed obv.

This is what I wanted out of my MK1 Stanton Sherpa and it’s got there now, after ditching the suspension fork, longer, lower stem, narrower bars and most importantly probably, some lightish wheels.

I might yet put the fork back on with reduced travel, now I know how I like it.

New ones aren’t cheap, but if you can get a s/h one like I did, it’s a corker.

Or a nice 26 inch with carbon fork from Exotic. Tonnes of nice steel 26 frames for bargain prices.