You can leave the thread any time you like, you don’t have to wait for it to be closed, you can close it yourself by not opening anymore, see ya, it’s been nice chatting

The joke is a little crap if it refers to atypical characters, it only really works if the beliefs are more widely held

What they did was bad,

why do you say that?

the character [in the cartoon] believes it was “bad” now even if A&E didn’t realise it was “bad” then.

but No / few Christians think it was ‘bad’. most see it as just one of those things

Anyway. I’m not sure that “bad” and “evil” are directly analogous in this context. The crux of it (in Catholicism at least) is that mankind disobeyed god by eating fruit they’d been expressly forbidden to eat, and we’ve had our cards marked ever since

but they couldn’t have know that disobeying god was a bad thing.

Surely something that has bad consequences would be termed a bad thing? The absence of a pre-judgement on something does not mean it can’t be bad.

but they were in no position to know that what they did was wrong. In he same way a 1 year old flipping food out of their palte wouldn’t know that was bad.

Not sure why all the focus is on Christianity either – since the comic is about general “religion” fuelled-beliefs and clearly identifies some other religions as well.

well, there are a few jesus / beardy god references in there

I daresay that the “Church of England’s” mealy-mouthed, thin lipped prevarication over women bishops and gay marriages is preferable to the Westboro Baptossers shouty demonstration hate stuff in the eyes of some.

How did they prevaricate?

well, see the thing is that prior to eating the fruit Adam and Eve had no knowledge of good and evil, to the extent that even disobeying God could not have been good or bad. so, eating the apple was not a bad thing, because there was no such thing as a bad thing.

Ok, I’ll bite, because it seems to be important to you

oh no, not at all. it was just an example

The ones that are berated in the comic

Well, some are commonly held, others such as the fruit one i refered to, are not.

But seriously, what’s the concern if they don’t share Emz’ orientation? I don’t share it, and I have no problem with her getting married to her girlfriend, and don’t expect her to hide her relationship away.

and in that respect, you are like many Christians

Most religious people seem to want to interfere with me and my gf’s life. so I don’t think they are extreme.
No they don’t. Maybe one or two that you’ve spoken to, that’s all. There’s millions who’ve made no judgement, applaud you, or don’t really give a ****.

They may not share your orientation and prefer to remain tight lipped

Sam, listen to yourself, you are now admitting that some people do actually hold these beliefs

Which beliefs in particular are you referring to?

If they are “outliers” wrt christian beliefs then they are christians. Granted christians with extreme views but christians nonetheless.

but everyone holds some beliefs which Christians hold, does that make us all Christians?

I’m not sure we can, I don’t think even Westboro believe that the eating of the fruit was the bad thing

Most religious people seem to want to interfere with me and my gf’s life. so I don’t think they are extreme.

Isn’t that a selective sample? There may be lots of christians who don’t have any issue with yours and your gf’s lives and so you never encounter them

If they aren’t part of the same continuum, how can they be outliers?

By deviating greatly from other christians. What? Is this going to turn into a discussion about statistical definitions?

I’d say that their core belief (that homosexuality is an abhorrent sin because their god says so) is shared by many American conservative Christians

So you don’t think they are extremists?

As I said before, “fair” is where I Collect the VAT as I’m legally required to, and pay it to the Revenue.

And I pay Tax on my Company profit.

Then i’m not entirely sure why you questioned my point about how the money should be split,as either method would not be fair. Why was my approach so unfair as to warrant comment?

Westboro Baptist Church.

But the Westboro Baptist Church are a group of a few seriously misguided individuals whose beliefs would be unrecognisable to any other christians. They are not even an extreme, they are not part of the same continuum. Nevertheless they get cited as an example of religious extremes, no other groups are even similar. It’s no use citing outliers as examples

There are other comics about cats if that’s more to your liking?

So, you still don’t get that it is not the subject matter which Is the issue? Never mind. Next time pay more attention.

It’s satirising widely held beliefs. Just, perhaps, not yours.

No, not my beliefs but that’s never been my point. For example there are few people, even amongst the Christian community, here or in the US who believe for example that eating the fruit was a bad thing. That is not a widely held belief, it is in fact a widely held misconception that this is what Christians believe. I understand the point of the satirisation, but think that it missed the target somewhat, probably.

You actually KNOW what everyone’s beliefs are worldwide?!?! Wow, I’m impressed!

Well,i’m not the only one

If you don’t think people hold those beliefs then you need to spend more time on American websites: political, religious or otherwise!

It’s satirising widely held beliefs. Just, perhaps, not yours.

I suppose that a few of us don’t think it is too grand a claim to KNOW what people of certain religous faiths believe. I also understand that you don’t have a clue and that’s probably OK too. I wish you well in that, but you probably get involved in too many debates about religion

As for the ‘getting a few facts wrong’; the strip doesn’t say “this is what religious people think”, it says (paraphrasing) “if you think this, then you might want to reconsider; if you don’t, cool, enjoy your religion”

Sure, but if the strip get its humour from satirising beliefs, it would be better if it chose beliefs which people actually held.

*scratches head*

Am I missing something with that football joke?

It’s only the start of the joke.

Alex Fergusson is very worried about Manchester United players who seem a bit sluggish so he asks the teams psychologist what he can do.
“Keep their minds alert by firing off questions at them all the time; that’s what we used to do when I was at Arsenal.”
“Like what?” asks Fergie
“Well mind puzzles; for example, like ‘I am my fathers son but not my brother – who am I?”, was the reply.
Fergie went off happy with the idea but couldn’t puzzle out the riddle himself and wanted to make sure he knew the answer so he called Arsene Wenger at Arsenal to ask him.
“Can you help me with this riddle”, asked Fergie, “I am my father’s son but not my brother – who am I?’ “,
“Obvious”, replied Arsene Wenger, “It’s me”
“Thanks”, said Fergie and resolved to try this out on the first player he saw, which turned out to be Rio Ferdinan
“Rio, a new mental regime we’re starting; you have to answer the following questions – OK”
“OK boss – yeh fire away”, said Rio
“I am my father’s son but not my brother – who am I?”, asked Fergie
Rio thought for a while
“Ah, don’t know boss”, he said
“Well go home home and think about it and tell me tomorrow.” said Fergie
Rio puzzled over the riddle all night and eventually rang his mate Dwight Yorke.
“Boss’s has set me a question I can’t answer”, said Rio, “can you help me?”
“Glad to!”, said Yorke.
“I am my fathers son but not my brother – who am I?”, asked Rio.
Obvious”, said Yorke, “It’s me”
Next morning Rio drops into Fergie’s office
“Have you figured out the riddle yet”, asked Fergie, “I am my father’s son but not my brother – who am I?”
“Yes Boss, It’s Dwight Yorke”, replied Rio!
“Don’t be stupid”, snapped Fergie, “It’s Arsene Wenger!”

It wasn’t to score a point, but to make one. But you admit it is a distraction, that there may have been some reason for saying Liverpool and not Millwall. Same way as you might wonder if putting Fergie in charge of Man City was relevant to the joke or not,and not seeing that it wasn’t, only when you hear the punchline.

jokes are like worms

It makes no odds to the puchline..

It doesn’t but it does affect the flow of the joke.

Edit: Oh and what was wrong with Millwall as you originally wrote.

and that is exactly my point, I changed it and then you don’t like it

So he takes all the risk while you take none at all.
And you get all the VAT and some of the TAX as well

That seems fair.

So, the alternative where you ‘get’ the VAT and they ‘get’ the tax is fair is it?

Why’s it shaky, seems totally logical, they integrate because they feel they fit in.

No, actually they don’t integrate, because the local communities exclude them

You loose any credibility when you start making personal insults.

I wasn’t being insulting! I was only suggesting a possible reason for your form of question.

the punchline of the Fergie joke is not affected by the details, but it works better if the details are correct

Yeah, there shouldn’t be the second ‘m’

for example

Alex Ferguson is very worried about his Manchester City players who seem a bit sluggish so he asks the teams psychologist what he can do.
“Keep their minds alert by firing off questions at them all the time; that’s what we used to do when I was at Liverpool.”
“Like what?” asks Fergie
“Well mind puzzles; for example, like ‘I am my fathers son but not my brother – who am I?”, was the reply.
Fergie went off happy with the idea but couldn’t puzzle out the riddle himself and wanted to make sure he knew the answer so he called Arsene Wenger at Liverpool to ask him….

Wow, are the jokes you guys tell always 100% factually correct with no exaggeration? It’s a cartoon, not a documentary.

no but the structure of the joke has to work otherwise it distracts from the humour. A bit straw mannish,

but also it just undermines the strength of the joke

Well, one would be that people vote according to what is best for them as an individual, rather than society as a whole

then the eating of the fruit, which wasn’t really the bad thing

.

Maybe the general population of those countries is more to the liking of the gypsies, should we become more like Romania, Slovakia & Albania to encourage the integration then?

but you asked a question based on a shaky assumption. Maybe this is because you are stupid, should we all be more like you, to facilitate discussions on this matter?

Yeah, ‘cos that’s exactly what i said
🙄

I ‘get’ jazz mags, is that all right?

It’s always a shame when this smart kind of humour is undermined by getting a few underlying facts and assumptions wrong.

If you find a trades person who is willing to risk doing cash work to avoid the VAT and TAX due.
Why would you expect him to take all the risk, while you gain all the benefit ?

That is why i said ‘a share’