1. Kids too old so cannot help with No1, technology moves on.

2. what is the wall like – plaster, papered, rough plaster? – We have rough plaster in our peasants cottage so I used a good quality fluffy roller and a very soft emulsion brush for edging up to door frames/windows etc. There is a spray system about but one of our clients makes paint and they tested it and it wasted lots of paint and never did "self clean".

AndyP – all he will need then is a pitchfork and a few mates and he can storm the spooky house on the hill.

well I have Palm Handspring and 240 books that I can read on it and that came out when Ernie was a kid!!

One too many kicks to the head, methinks!!

Dead Kennedys
The Slits
The Southern Death Cult
Pookisnackenburger
Half Man Half Biscuit

Crikey, I nearly crashed the car!!

Ernie, I think that is why doctors have the Hypocratic oath.

This may sound a bit wordy, but surely by not telling them that obesity is an issue, a doctor would be actively doing harm, which contravenes the oath – I'm sure a Dr will be along shortly to correct me on this.

There is also quite a lot of social cost to obesity – injury to NHS staff is one, lifting and moving an obese person cannot always be done with a hoist.

Excellent stuff – more lip plates & neck rings.

Cheese, cream – oooh just think of the calories!

hmmm… the F word.
Will "bubbly people", as must now refer to them, reclaim the F** word and use it in popular music, and call each other F** as part of their unique, underground, large sub-culture.

Note to self – do not go to support either sons when they are playing for Chesterfield next week. Thanks for the parenting tip!! Would hate to be thought of as a hanger on. 🙄

My dad came to watch me in all my sporting endeavours (sorry Dad!), never thought to ask if he was disappointed with Hockey Groupies! 😆

Would either of them be where they are without either of their parents backing them?

Goan – Kayaking, snowboarding, climbing as well as the obvious.

Have a crack at a team sport, all these are pretty much individual sports. I play Hockey at a reasonably high standard – fast, good for fitness, reasonably good behaviour on the pitch and currently unsullied by over commercialism.

Don't try Shinty – barking mad – just a big fight with walking sticks and a ball, we had to play it at school.

1 – IMO you browbeat people with whom you do not share an opinion, it ceases to be a discussion and degenerates into rhetoric. I don't expect you to change your political allegiance, but listening to others may just help you understand that, for whatever reason, people may have an alternative view.
2 – this thread was about the rights of an individual to come into the UK and speak, you then brought the BNP into the discussion to reinforce a point but then seemed to go off on an anti BNP tack rather than return to the subject of Geert Wilders.

As you say, no worries.

Well done Ernie – a straight answer, top man and we seem to agree on something.
What I was referring to was your usual politically polarised view, your overpowering self belief that yours is the one true path and the way you often change the axis of a discussion.

Delighted for him after being eclipsed by Hamilton.
Would be great to see the two of them battling it out next season.

Do you just make it up as you go along rogerthecat ?

No, I just do not recall you ever questioning the right of other minority groups from entering the UK.

Also interesting that, as is your wont, you fail to address the main point of the argument.

TandemJeremy – ok a more reasoned argument than the one mustered by Ernie the shop steward for the knee jerking left. Ernie – if the BNP decide to support you for whatever reason, does this automatically make you a facist? No, it makes them even more stupid. If, however, Geert Wilders reciprocated you have him bang to rights so stop drawing conclusions that are spurious.

TJ – Roger – freedom of speech is not and cannot be an absolute. You do not have the freedom to make inflammatory racist speeches nor do you have the freedom to be libellous.

Of course you are correct, freedom comes with responsibility and I did not suggest, or did not intend to suggest, that the freedom was abolute.

If you so believe in freedom of speech am I free to say that "as you support this racist you must be a racist"? No.
Do I have the freedom to say Jews should be killed – all of them? No.
Do I have the freedom to say that all Muslims are murderers? No
Do I have the freedom to say that doctors who perform abortions should be killed and BTW here is the address of one of them? No

However, young Ernest here seems happy to allow this privilege to minority groups such as those in the picture who are quite clearly inciting people to murder and violence by the evidence of the writing on their placards.

I don't believe in " no platform for racists" however I also believe that we should be able to exclude from our country people who's presence would " not be conducive to the public good" – who's intent is clearly not to have an open and free debate but to stir up trouble. This power has been used many times against people from all sectors of the political spectrum – from neo nazis such as Wilder to religious zealots from many sides.

Agreed, absolutely so why is it not applied equally for all individuals, it just seems that to criticise some groups elicits a cry from certain political groups of racist, something I would find more than a little offensive. There are political and religious subversives of many persuasions who are allowed into our country and who stir up hatred in others without being taken to task. And, when the authorities choose to do so they are pilloried by the likes of Ernie when they remove them, this is plainly wrong.

freedom of speech is a qualified right not an absolute right – it is qualified by the need to sty within the bounds of decency and the mores of the society you are in.

Again I agree, absolutely.

So if Wilders was British he should be allowed to speak here but be prosecuted after the event if / when he breaks the law as he clearly will do. As he has no right to be in this country and he espouses views that are totally abhorrent to the mores of our society then he should be barred from entering.

I agree, but he is a European resident and has the freedom to travel between member countries so your op
Roger – freedom of speech ening comment is incorrect, he has every right to come to this country. Again I would suggest we are open to a cast iron accusation of hypocrisy because we only apply this to certain groups, we have to apply it in an absolute manner.

Interesting debate, if we can keep it in the realms of grown ups, not descend into the traditional name calling and not don our political blinkers it could be enjoyable. 😀

It's like hearing the same worn out left wing rhetoric that has always been peddled when an argument was lost – thou shalt not criticise anyone of any other race, creed or colour or I damn thee a racist.

The entire question is about freedom of speech. The ability of someone to express a point of view, the only caveat is that it must not preach violence or hatred. Now, irrespective of which view you hold that picture posted earlier in this thread of the demonstrators does precisely that – read the placards.

I don't give a flying ferk what your political views, on any subject – I for one would like to hear them (and Ernie we hear yours endlessly!) and then make up my own mind whether you are credible or an idiot.

Your insistence on making anything in the far right taboo makes it appealing to the marginalised and disenfranchised in society – well done! It will only make the rantings of the BNP and their ilk appear more credible.

And, before I trot off to do something more enlightening – what is this myopic fixation with only one political extreme – there are, IMO, some fairly unpallatable views held by those on the far left – ah, but that is to criticise some of their favourite policies such as multiculturalism and that is taboo – ergo I must be a racist, damn, damn, damn.

Ernie – I often agree with you but not this time.
Where did the BNP come from?
I thought the discussion was about the issue he has with the increase of radical Islam and its intolerance.
Let's not turn it into another anti BNP rant please – we all know about them and probably feel the same way as you, this is a bigger issue and debate. The BNP are so small as to be insignificant – radical fundemental religions of whatever flavour are bad.

DrJ – perhaps it was poor jokes and attitude towards them that may have contributed 😀

DrJ – Member
(On a separate topic: if the Nazis invaded Holland, how would you tell?)

A very crap attempt at a joke.
The Dutch are great folk and have always made me very welcome.
I am sure they have their fair share of "Griffins" as does every country, but after what was done to them by the Nazis under occupation I would think many would be very offended by that remark.

In his interview he focused on the lack of freedoms that a more radical Islam promotes and the stated ambition of some Islamic extremists for a worldwide Islamic state under a form of Islamic law. It is this religious imperialism, combined with the very restrictive practices of more radical thinking that he is wanting to confront, especially in a secular and relatively free Western Europe.
I have some sympathy as I do quite like our liberal society, with all its inherent defects, but he needs to work on his use of common English – referring to Islam as "retarded" was not a bright move, even though the word may have been correct when referring to the lack of evolution of liberal acceptance in more extreme forms of Islam.

It does concern me that we will fight to allow some fairly offensive messages and protests from some sectors of our society but not from others – either they should all be able to put forth their bile and vitriol and let us pick it to pieces or the line should be drawn for all – no exceptions.

And before anyone piles into me and accuses me of being a fascist or some such nonsense, I am as liberal in views, attitude and behaviour as you are likely to find. It is just that I hate to see restrictions on the freedom of speech we have fought to have and to hold onto.

Right off for a ride – later folks.

Crikey – just read one thread on real ale and now one on Folk music – this place just become more weird by the day!!

Lots of good bands mentioned but no one seems to have mentioned the Levellers – love their agressive/political style.

Pulls on chunky knit jumper, picks up tankard, stick hand over left ear and oooooooowwwwwww I played the wild….!!!

If you get over to it, the Oakwood Real Ale Festival in Rotherham is perhaps the best and only reason to go to Rotherham – absolutely massive and held in my old school, which always feels odd.

Literally hundreds of beers, some ciders/perry and lagers.

Link to the website here: clickety[/url]

Oh, and love Waggeldance in bottles – can see on the rack as I type this Old Speckled Hen, Bombadier Empire and a new one to me – Hop.

Simple moments lack of concentration – could happen to anyone.

We used an old, cut down surfing leash to connect the push chair to our wrists when ours were tiny because this sort of thing haunted my waking hours.

That poor kid is never going to be allowed near the edge of anything until it's 21!!

Congratulations.
Does he have a name yet, other than minislapper2

This for chilling out: Chilling
This for winding up: party time

Bimbler – Young people in think they know everything SHOCKA.

No, they don't think they know everything.
They know they know everything!

Bimbler – Blimey we come across as a bunch of miserable old basterds

I am "a miserable old basterd" so that would seem logical.

Bimbler – Everyone seems to be in some kind of a state of shock that a 21 (TWENTY ONE) year old has a sheltered and not necessarily realistic view of the world.

But it is their blindingly unswerving certainty that they, and only they, have the right answer/method/opinion on everything, all the time and without any ability to understand that there just may be another way to look at/undertake and complete a task – that is assuming the task in question is sufficiently intellectually rewarding and not something that could be done by any other plebian in the building without a brain the size of a planet.

Now look you've made me rant – breathe, calm, go make camomile tea…

As a qualified Glacial Geomorphologist and an employer I have 2 points

1. there was no work for Glacial Geomorpholigists when I graduated (we hadn't spotted the icecaps had started to bugger off – well, when I say we, I mean you – we actually sat on them and saw them disappearing but no one cared!) and,

2. as an employer I made the enormous error of employing a highly qualified languages grad straight from Uni, only after 3 months did I truly understand just how self important and arrogant graduates can be before some poor employer has had the job of knocking the edges of the jumped up little sods.

At this point I would like to unreservedly apologise to the AP Moller group who had the task of knocking the edges off me after I graduated, you are better people than you will ever know!!

hora – Member I'm guessing here

😆

Bankers.
All of them.
Every last one.
The smug, self serving, avaricious, bastards.
Each and every one should be peeled alive, washed down with malt vinegar and left out for the crows.

And made to give us the money back.

Hell's teeth – wtf was that!!!
Like 200 American high school teens all channeling through one mouth simultaneously!

Hora – how are you intending to keep her head still long enough to apply a pillow?

After QT last night and the pathetic response of our current Home Sec, I am really looking forward to seeing NG and Jack Straw on the same platform – should be a real hoot!

I love the idea of as many non WASP residents of the UK joining the BNP once it becomes inclusive. If there are sufficient, they can marginalise the current crop of idiots in charge and set a new agenda for the party – how about an wholly inclusive British National Party – the party for everyone. Political mischief – the best entertainment in the world!!

On a serious note, we have to stop trying to destroy idiots like these by trying to make them conform and legitimising fringe and radical parties, the only way to do this is to open them up to ridicule in the full glare of a public spotlight.

Wow, not listened to them in 15 years – time to dig out some vinyl.
Good shout DS!

Wow what a mixed bunch we are.
I run a small B2B pr firm, we work in the events industry so it can be great fun mixed with bouts of chaos – fortunately if we cock up no-one dies unlike some of you on here, but we try not to cock up if we can.
Hats of to you all who have "serious" jobs, esp those in the medical world. I am married to a community midwife so have had 15 years second hand experience of just how hard you work for such little reward and thanks – as we have used you a LOT – a huge thanks from me.
Right, anyone want to be on the front page of tomorrow's News of the World?

Not been on for a while and read this over breakfast, now have a huge grin on my face, the sun is rising over Bradda Edge and I am about to slalom round the snails on the way into work. Top work folks.

Don't like killing things if I can help it, so all snails found in our garden are relocated into the fields opposite courtesy of a nice children's tennis racket, I now consider myself the mollusc equivalent of RyanAir – cheap no frills air travel.

Can empathise SFB when my eldest was toddling he was found sucking a stripy snail – seems he thought it was a Humbug like his Gran gave to him.

this:

Email from the petition website:

Thank you for signing this petition. The Prime Minister has written a
response. Please read below.

Prime Minister: 2009 has been a year of deep reflection – a chance for
Britain, as a nation, to commemorate the profound debts we owe to those who
came before. A unique combination of anniversaries and events have stirred
in us that sense of pride and gratitude which characterise the British
experience. Earlier this year I stood with Presidents Sarkozy and Obama to
honour the service and the sacrifice of the heroes who stormed the beaches
of Normandy 65 years ago. And just last week, we marked the 70 years which
have passed since the British government declared its willingness to take
up arms against Fascism and declared the outbreak of World War Two. So I am
both pleased and proud that, thanks to a coalition of computer scientists,
historians and LGBT activists, we have this year a chance to mark and
celebrate another contribution to Britain’s fight against the darkness of
dictatorship; that of code-breaker Alan Turing.

Turing was a quite brilliant mathematician, most famous for his work on
breaking the German Enigma codes. It is no exaggeration to say that,
without his outstanding contribution, the history of World War Two could
well have been very different. He truly was one of those individuals we can
point to whose unique contribution helped to turn the tide of war. The debt
of gratitude he is owed makes it all the more horrifying, therefore, that
he was treated so inhumanely. In 1952, he was convicted of ‘gross
indecency’ – in effect, tried for being gay. His sentence – and he
was faced with the miserable choice of this or prison – was chemical
castration by a series of injections of female hormones. He took his own
life just two years later.

Thousands of people have come together to demand justice for Alan Turing
and recognition of the appalling way he was treated. While Turing was dealt
with under the law of the time and we can't put the clock back, his
treatment was of course utterly unfair and I am pleased to have the chance
to say how deeply sorry I and we all are for what happened to him. Alan and
the many thousands of other gay men who were convicted as he was convicted
under homophobic laws were treated terribly. Over the years millions more
lived in fear of conviction.

I am proud that those days are gone and that in the last 12 years this
government has done so much to make life fairer and more equal for our LGBT
community. This recognition of Alan’s status as one of Britain’s most
famous victims of homophobia is another step towards equality and long
overdue.

But even more than that, Alan deserves recognition for his contribution to
humankind. For those of us born after 1945, into a Europe which is united,
democratic and at peace, it is hard to imagine that our continent was once
the theatre of mankind’s darkest hour. It is difficult to believe that in
living memory, people could become so consumed by hate – by
anti-Semitism, by homophobia, by xenophobia and other murderous prejudices
– that the gas chambers and crematoria became a piece of the European
landscape as surely as the galleries and universities and concert halls
which had marked out the European civilisation for hundreds of years. It is
thanks to men and women who were totally committed to fighting fascism,
people like Alan Turing, that the horrors of the Holocaust and of total war
are part of Europe’s history and not Europe’s present.

So on behalf of the British government, and all those who live freely
thanks to Alan’s work I am very proud to say: we’re sorry, you deserved
so much better.

Gordon Brown