Pretty disappointing (i.e. disgraceful)

Two very different narratives, and some compelling info suggesting that the police action was planned rather than reactive.

An inquiry would have / should have been set up to:

1. Establish an accurate timeline for the events of the day, incl. police command decisions etc
2. Establish whether political control was exerted / appropriate.

Radio 4 yesterday suggested that S Yorks Police didn’t want to deploy dog and mounted units, but Thatcher directly intervened.

Norman Tebbitt also gave a very clear reason why an inquiry would be appropriate. In his welcoming the decision not to hold an inquiry he stated that the police behaved, in the main, appropriately. Given the controversial nature of Orgreave, it is not appropriate for such sweeping statements to stand as the record.

Let’s establish what happened – or for this stating that an inquiry is unnecessary, then release the cabinet papers that currently have an 80 year release period on them…

Dude, are you high? IL2 Strumovik back in 2001, utterly wiped the flaw with EAW’s flight model and both DCS World and the IL2: Battle over Moscow totally wipe the floor with the original IL2.

See, I just do not agree…
(Not necessarily re EAW / CFS vs IL-2 / DCS, but “in general”)

Yes, the detailed modelling “wipes the floor” – systems, buttons, functions, and yes, parts of the flight model are more complex and more detailed (buffet & stall, departures etc)

But that does not make a better flight sim…

It’s also one reason my interest in flight sims remains high, but my participation is low…!

PC sims may have approached / reached the level of modelling detail that military / commercial sims can replicate, in terms of the fidelity of the flight model, but they don’t have the £Millions of “supporting environment” – hydraulically activated cockpits, 360° projected visuals etc. The level of “immersion” does not match the level of modelling.

The result are aircraft in DCS, for example, that take an awful lot of practice to fly – not because their real life counterparts were difficult, but because the high fidelity flight models are not matched by the normal cues that a real pilot would have.

The universal real life pilots’ verdict on the Spitfire, for example, was that it was a beauty to fly: “you put it on”, “it was an extension of your arm”. In the current high end sims, aircraft like the Mustang, FW190 and Bf109 are very, very difficult to fly.

To me, this misses an essential fact – young men with very little training were sent out to fly and fight in these machines.

And they were able to…

pondo – Member
Ooo, thank you both! Gonna grab me one of them.

Tom is correct “Birds of Prey” is the correct name…!

There’s a version of Il-2 Battle of Btitain / Stalingrad on the PS

And topically, seeing as Kuznetsov was down our way

e_t_p, those vids ^^^ are DCS 🙂

As are these…

iainc in staff poaching shocker…! 😆

Flight Sims – the very reason I got into computers 😆 😳 😥

A genre that was at the leading edge (pun intended) of gaming 20 or so years ago, but has become a niche market abandoned by most publishers and gamers…

IMHO the ability and desire to replicate every button and function killed it off. If it takes x years to train a real F16 pilot, then the clue is there that mist armchair drivers aren’t going to have the time / inclination to learn the systems…

Anyway, I’ve always found Microsoft FS to be boring, despite having flow som excellent add one from the likes of Just Flight (Mosquito, Hawk, Lancaster, Vulcan) and A2A Simulations (various US warbirds)

Personally, combat sims are more “engaging”, but not everyone want that…
As above ^^^, the Il-2 franchise is worth a look (Battle of Britain, Stalingrad). IIRC thes can be relatively accessible for new players

Beware, a joystick is a must, then you’ll find a throttle would be good, and possibly even rudder pedals 😯 (WW2 aircraft need a fair bit of rudder input 😉 )

And then, if you / your kids really get into it, there are the so called “study sims”

Have a look at videos posted by Eagle Dynamics, DCS World, Razbam, VEAO Simulations etc. Jaw dropping attention to detail 😮

Geologist here as well.

As posted ^^^, I suspect that the geotechnical and environmental markets have taken a substantial proportion of graduate output over the last 10-20 years (out of those who have taken up degree relevant posts).

The work can be very varied and therefore interesting, BUT the first 3-5 years will involve a lot of site work and cheap hotels. Some companies like to bring graduates on quickly, so that they are using their brains and adding to their subject knowledge, other prefer to utilise them as cheap field technicians with little opportunity to progress towards interpretative and decision making roles.

There was a recent piece in the Times stating that geology degrees gave the highest grad starting salaries (40-75k IIRC), and the quite a strong response on LinkedIn criticising the newspaper for “made-up stories”.

We’re hoping to match the pressures on the shower supply by installing the pump…

If you’re meaning a matched pressure system for the whole house, using an unvented tank or heatstore, then that’s pretty much out of the question (£££)

Ta.

I was favouring No 2 or 3 – less faffing. Take off for pump cold would be from the new tank either way.

No. 3 avoids separate supply and overflow etc

N+1…

Trying to persuade mrsrkk01 that the same applies to amps 🙂

(Very much like the DSL40)

I wouldn’t burn anything other than wood / coal on a regular basis…

I seemed to have provoked quite a few comments on “tactical” and EDC…. 😛

Seems my sceptiscm was correct – call an everyday heavy duty torch “tactical” and double the price!

The EDC concept is clearly bizarre to Europeans 😉 but I can understand the anxiety of not leaving the house with something you’ve come to regard as essential kit. If I ride with lid (almost never), gloves or glasses I feel naked and vulnerable – even though I wouldn’t have worn any of those as a kid / teenager. I’ve conditioned myself to wearing them – a habit that puts me outside of my comfort zone if one is missing

You shouldn’t have had to have been told. It’s what normal people do.

That’s my point, in many ways. Today it is normal. It didn’t used to be normal.

When I finished O Levels in the early 80s, my year was the first year that most of the male students didn’t go to the local large heavy engineering employer – jobs for life, on the doorstep, for the previous year groups… And not just my school, but the same across a whole city.

My year – study, dole or armed forces. I did study, most of my mates did forces. Those less well placed started life from a shit place.

So, we’ve now created a couple of generations with shit prospects and they want out – but it’s not the EU that’s created the shit

hh45 – where to start…

Well, firstly I know many people who are passionately “pro-Europe”, but not in the manner of fervent, blind, zealous belief of many Brexiters. The pro-EU choice reflects a cold pragmatism. This is why many businesses (who would never ordinarily allow their names to be associated with a political view) believed that our prospects would be better within the EU. In other words – this is not a comfort blanket thing… It’s a view based on knowledge of how globalised trade works, or doesn’t work. If you want a reason why educated / professional people were more likely to vote remain, then this is probably it – their work (my work) gives everyday knowledge of what drives business decisions. The “comfort blanket” metaphor is probably more relevant for those who have voted to re-establish something that never was and can never be again.

Why is this? Tebbitt told my generation to “get on your bike” and Thatcher made sure we had to… The market rules, the market is always right. Well, we’re a globalised market now – if you pick up your toys and stomp off back to a little Britain home, then you’re turning your back on everything that was forcefully, painfully changed in the 1980s. Going back to 1973? Yes, in more was than merely the EEC referendum.

Regarding “Regulations” – as others have asked, which ones should go???

My area of work is in environmental legislation & remediation. UK Govt would have done SFA without Europe and where we are now in INCOMPARABLE to when I started my career. I’m not able to tell you specifics of what I’ve come across, but shit on beaches is just the visible stuff.

Most of the public have no idea what has happened to improve this country over the last 20-30 years, except for a few whimsical TV programmes showing salmon back in this river or that 😡

That torygraph link won’t open for me:.. Any alternative sources???

Re Illustrious – even if she had remained in commission, she’s almost 10 years older than Kuznetsov

Perhaps Jacob R-M wrote that bit.

In what parallel universe is there a constituency so detached from reality that J R-M would get elected in a public vote?

The mind truly boggles 🙁

This thread continues to generate some complete & utter nonsense…

I’m interested to read some of the political and economic arguments for Brexit, but this…

hh45 – Member
How do you think we managed before 1973?

Rose-tinted reading glasses??? WTF has 1973 (pre- computers, pre-Internet, pre-globalisation, pre-fax? and for many pre-telephone) got to do with the 21st Century???

Let me point out how stupid that is – Did your relatives in 1973 suggest 1930 was better??? Let’s chuck out the Ford Anglia / Morris Minor and go back to horse and cart or bicycle 😡

AND DONT GET ME STARTED ON:

Cod Wars

Do you have any idea what that embarrassing spat was about???
I saw one of our Leander class frigates in dry dock with her bows stove in!
Not the most glorious part of our collective history…

Why was there a cod war? Because the UK had manage to overfish the North Sea for most commercial species without any help from our EEC / EU neighbours and wanted to preserve our right to carry on fishing somebody else’s… Iceland were trying to protect their natural resource from a greedy European neighbour – gotta love the ironing!

The whole fishing / quotas thing really boils my p!ss. Quotas were a mechanism to protect fish stocks. Overfishing and low fish stocks were a product of an unregulated industry

Open a naughty kids school….

Maths Teacher – Gove
Dinner Lady – Johnson
Lollipop Lady – May
Geography Teacher – Corbyn

Dirty Old Man in the Caretaker’s Cupboard – Farage

My professional mentor made me read up on Aberfan – a very sobering task and deliberately set to emphasise that being a “professional” means taking on real responsibilities.

I still ask the same of people I work with today

I put up with the book – up until the last couple of pages…

WTF??? Did Dan Brown suddenly realise he had a train to catch…?

We’ve had two cockers at the same time as the kids (kids aged from 7-8 when we got the dogs?). Like all dogs, each one is different in temperament etc, but these have been great…

Soft, loyal, lovable with the family; but will still bark at an “unknown” in or around the house. Unlike a springer (springer would originally have been my preference), the cocker is a much more manageable size for modern houses / lifestyles.

Scotland voting out is potentially good news. Brexit brings some short term pain for the UK as a whole but now there’s a chance to mitigate that by cutting the purse strings north of the border and letting Scotland get on and pay more for public services just like they are always talking about – but at their cost.
So more money left for the impoverished English regions. Win Win.
If we get to see less Salmond and Sturgeon on the telly that will a positive result as well.

Perfect example of the idiotic, xenophobic, nationalist fwckwittery that has characterised this disaster

One aspect that hasn’t been picked up on (AFAIK), is the sudden “devaluing” of UK company earnings…

Over my working life more and more companies have been bought by ultimately US corporates. My own employer is a global company, but US HQ,ed and NYSE listed.

Our UK sales and revenues are reported in $US. Next year’s targets are 20% tougher in dollar terms – or worth 20% less to our Corporate masters.

All the talk of manufacturing import / export costs and their impact on the economy – everyone’s ignoring the reduced Post-Brexit service sector ($) earnings potential…

because majority of the people have voted to leave.

This is a blatant untruth

The breaks thing can certainly be true.

mrs rkk01 went weeks at a time without a coffee or lunch break. Many days she wasn’t even able to take a toilet break. Not acceptable in any job, IMHO

Get / wear a pair of specs.

I keep hearing “5 years” – as a typical timescale where even the good / capable are worn down, burnt out and looking for something different

ETA – there’s no proper “market” in teachers… i.e. one that encourages career development & progression. mrs rkk01 had a very demanding (and skilled) role, specialising in observation and assessment of kids that would not cope in mainstream classes – behavioural difficulties, ADHD, autistic spectrum, health /development probs etc. The “price” driven market sees a lot of specialist SEN roles being offered to cheap NQTs who have neither the skills or emotional experience for the role, rather than a “skills” driven market where those who can make the most difference command the higher salaries…

doesnt help solve the massive teacher shortage we have.

Bullying / overbearing head teachers…

Mrs rkk01 took a “break” from teaching at Easter (to supervise her ailing parents house move). Now, having stepped away for 6 months she can see the toll it was taking on her health and doesn’t want to go back.

Main problem is target driven culture and target obsessed heads. No concept of H&S or staff welfare in the school system. As a manager in a technical consultancy I would’ve been dismissed for what passes as “normal” behaviour in schools 🙁

Opposite side of the valley then… Not cycled up that one

Graig to Penycoedcae???

Utter bitch

I want them to reinstate the Merthyr-Brecon route. They could even send the Taff trail up the Bryn Ore tramway

Exactly. And Brecon Mountain Railway wanted to reopen Torpantau tunnel through the Brecon Beacons (historically the highest on the UK rail network) and extend the railway to Talybont. Not sure it was Sustrans who objected, but there was a generally negative response to the idea of replacing a recreational route with a rail route.

Same score, IIRC, for the Camel Trail, Plym Trail and Granite Trail 😡

Not surprised. Wouldn’t have thought you’d get away with agri to dwelling under PD anywhere n UK???

They’re not very popular with me 😉

I do value the creation of the cycle network, but where they stand opposed to rail reinstatement they are actually blocking sustainable transport – which needs to include a mix of travel modes

Good piece and a shame that the print version has gone (I used to buy, but have rarely bought a paper in the last 15+ yrs)

I did turn to the Indy website over the summer – mainly in disgust at the BBCs blatant ineptitude over the pre-vote Brexit coverage

Haven’t enjoyed CyB since it was rebuilt 🙁

Probably says a lot about the type of trails / riding I prefer

Anyone sufficiently motivated by this Charlie Foxtrot to get themselves involved in politics?

I’d venture a guess that it’s more involved than phoning up and asking if Party X needs a few new candidates / prospective MPs 😉

The rest of the world must be looking at this country with the same look of disbelief as we are staring slack-jawed across the Atlantic, at the possibility of a Trump presidency.

Australian relatives were over during the summer – “disbelieving” would far too polite… “What were you daft nuggets thinking of?” would be closer to the mark 🙁

ETA – Hhmm. I definitely did not type “nuggets” 🙄

Those of us brought up in the 80s (or before), will have a fairly sanguine view on the effectiveness of a UK based (establishment is the phrase that keeps coming up…) judicial process…

Shall we have a game of “dubious process / miscarriage of justice” bingo – where to start???