Yes. All subsidies are taken into account. Obviously nobody can measure exactly what the benefit is to trade so that cannot be calculated, we do need to stay in IMHO but we also need to be able to handle our own shit.

But that’s the point – we don’t manage our own shit. I fully accept the maths-draw a line around the UK an we’re a net contributor, but the regional variations will give a different balance. If the UK wants to invest more strongly in the regions, then great. Whilst central London is more akin to NY, some of the places around here are more akin to Poland, Romania or even Albania (without offence etc)

So, grantway, you quote costs from a clearly anti-EU site. How do you calculate the wider costs a d benefits of membership?

Or, for that matter, the wider costs and benefits of an exit?

It seems to me that the “net contributor” status is as polarised as the UK economy…
Many of the English regions, as well as areas of Wales, Scotland & NI are beneficiaries of EU funding. Do the financial justifications of the exit proponents include the UK sourced funding of the less economically productive areas of the UK?

Or are we back to my point about “little England” – London, the SE and other well off parts want out…

Unbelievable

Lunacy

Cameron has just abdicated any credibility – not fit to govern.

This is a vote to break up the Union. There is no way that Scotland of Wales would stay OUT with England (NI & the Union being a different ball park)

Little England gone mad…

We live in the S Wales valleys – still a fair bit of snow around, but most main roads and schools open today.

You might have seen – this was for a school that WAS open…

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-21121284

Not sure where the UK should go re chains / winter tyres…

Bought chains last year as we drove down to the Alps for skiing – didn’t need them.

Thought about fitting them on Friday, but worked from home instead…

Fitting the chains would have got me the 500m to a treated road (side roads impassable without), but then I would have had a 14 mile journey traffic jam to get to work – and the chains wouldn’t have been needed.

Do we need to just stop salting the roads?

This thread makes me want to build up the old ’98 Alpine Trail 🙂

Parts have been robbed over the years – but could easy be put back to the Mt Vision spec that it got upgraded to…

Well, Shane Sutton rates her…

One of the greats

And he’s renowned for straight talking…

The problem is 2nd place is boring to write about …..however many times you come 2nd, you’re still the first looser.

???????????

No, she’s a working cyclist who doesn’t want the limited sponsors of womens cycling to remove their funding for her profession. Not naive at all.

Nonsense – if that’s the case she should have just kept quiet

Armistead hates Cooke, it doesn’t matter what Cooke says, Armistead would take exception to it.

Exactly – and looks rather immature for it?

Cooke vs Armistead round 2

Got to say pretty disappointed by Armistead’s take on this – naiive at best???

BD has it with this…

Compared to the astonishing speeds and 1990s-style heroics of the Vuelta last year, the TdF looked very much like a panyagua effort.

I watched the TdF and hoped to also enjoy the Vuelta. Turned off after a couple of stages – the whole thing looked like a circus. On the TdF, those who attacked in the mountains one day were hanging on afterwards. In the Vuelta it looked like day after day attacks with no penalty to be paid following an “all out” effort – and Sky faded…

I’ve always found Eastnor sufficeintly hilly

I thought Sennybridge – but doesn’t fit the <40 from Eastnor

We have a supply pipe to a downstairs sink that whines. I was a bit lax in fitting the pipework and didn’t clip it to the wall / unit in enough places – need to make sure that the pipe can’t vibrate…

Eastern end of the Brecon Beacons / Black Mountains?

Somewhere between Hay on Wye and the Glanusk estate?

Plenty of forest and hills…

ETA – even that is too far…

FoD, north scarp of the Cotswolds, Leominster area?

That is a lovely spit.

Have been resisting the temptation to get a 1:48 Bf109F in desert colours 😳

Hopefully Trek replaced under warranty 😯

Can someone please explain the appeal of these things to grown men?*

* and yes, models do appeal to me – but the rational bit of my brain asks “why?”

Worth noting how much of the tax collected by PAYE comes from a small number of individuals.
On £50k a year you pay nearly 15k in tax!

Do you think that’s a lot or a little?

Depends where you sit in the earnings table…

But it does highlight one thing, above the 40% threshold, comparing gross salaries is massively deceptive ( – until you get up towards 6 figure, perhaps?…) 50k sounds a hell of a lot if you are on 30k, but the difference is a lot less than the gross figures suggest – and not just from the net income, but also from loss of access to other state provision etc

So, numpty question… Is this for the current (2012/13) tax year, or opting out in advance of the forthcoming 2013/14 tax year????

Can’t decide what to do at the moment 🙁

jonba – silanes and siloxanes, pretty specialist stuff… Who do you do your chemistry for???

Is it time for us to blame fatcha yet?

Will reference to certain shoes do?
I have no useful contribution to make?

Sucks….

Salary below threshold, but value of Company car nudges taxable benefits over 🙁

So now sat in what BBC report as the UKs only 65% tax band WTF. More tax under the Tories than under Labour. Would be better off going 4 days a week, but how the **** will that help my, the company’s of the country’s productivity!?
Well and truly fubar

ETA – and for all those saying £50k is some sort of decadent nirvana – get a grip. Mrs rkk01 teaches and the going rate for pressies amongst those “supported” by our taxes appears to have been between £500 & £1000 per child 😯

I really, really like Courmayeur (learned to ski there in late 80s / early 90s, first ski hol there with GF, now mrs rkk01 etc).

I would say that it’s at it’s best for (early?) intermediate type skiers – there are some lovely long reds down through the trees, but with some steep narrow sections. There are also lots of flats which would be a pain fo a boarder.

Have also been to Cervinia, which is better for skiing and boarding, especially with access to Zermat when the weather is good. Good wide fast reds, and the Ventina is reputed to be the longest posted run in Europe – from Kleine Matterhorn all the way down to Cervinia. Makes he leg burn an the heart bellow with all that is thrilling in life!!!

Another +1 for the Abarth – comments on cost / budget acknowledged though….

Mrs rkk01 looked at the mini and it was just too small. 18 months into Abarth 500 ownership and still love it to bits.

It does around 45mpg for me……… It does however eat tyres….

Heavy right foot 😉

Another 318d Tourer company driver here! Average about 55mpg, and just changing the first pair of rear tyres at 21k… 😆

FSR HSS TBX Strat

Oh, and not flushing the bog. The in-laws like to save water. No idea why, they have plenty…

But, their philosophy for toilet flushing is to let 3-4 piles of crap accumulate 🙁

I’m all for saving natural resources, but I can do without looking at someone else’s turds every time I visit the can

You haven’t had to eat the MiL’s food….

Hoover on the exhaust vents seems to have done the trick 💡

Ta

Taxco, Mexico then…

Unusual these days IMO.

These days, the tax implications of a Co car mean it should be viewed as “yours”. AFAIK, most Co insurance policies allow “anyone directed by the Co.”. So, if on site, I instruct a contractor to use my vehicle – covered.

80s music “naff” tag is undeserved IMHO…

Some good stuff ^^

Now, how to suggest some non-naff stuff 😳

Husker Du
Pixies
Pogues

Ok, trying too hard..

No 80s disco complete without…

Simple Minds – Ghostdancing / Alive & Kicking / Don’t You…
Billy Ocean – When the Going Gets Tough
Jam – A town Called Malice

and soooo much more 😳

Titanic

Daft bint. WTF did she chuck the jewel overboard???

Surprised to hear GT5 being touted as more arcadey than Forza…!
I thought general view was the other way around. Played on the full physics engine & manual gearbox GT5 can be really demanding- especially with the weather effects on. IMO you can soon get the feel of the car, when you’re on the limit of grip, when the tyres are going to break away etc. Play on a car you’ve owned IRL, golf gti mk 5 for me, and it really shines-for something in your living room to offer even a close comparison is remarkable.

Like others, I bought PS3 for GT5P, and waited for GT5. Haven’t played Forza, but have seen it played. I don’t consider myself a GT5 fan boy though. GT5 was, sadly, disappointing… too much expectation given the development time, but that said, I think the disappointment was more to do with what wasn’t included rather than what was actually in the game. BUT, what GT5 does well, it does very well. Driving fast on the ‘Ring, without AI cars around is a HUGE challenge. AI cars and their physics engine was the biggest disappointment for me. AI should have the same physics constraints as the player car, and I was never convinced that they did 🙁

Good job Daily Mail don’t know their arse from their elbow…

So what, there’s a sale on relatively small bore shotgun ammo 🙄

Are the auto / semi-autos just the metaphor for the mindset? Bang in a clip, lock & load….

… As Molly said, there’s a great big streak of machismo (and underlying fear*) running through American society. Hand guns migh be the problem, but assault rifles are the shorthand for the mentality – an ar probably th easiest political quick fix

* just look at the election commentary and fallout….

I heard that most parenting that affects behaviour is done before 5. Might be wrong.

But, even if so, there is no point giving them all the love & attention at primary / pre primary, and then cutting them adrift / not giving the support through adolescence – arguably when we are all at our most vulnerable.

For all these attrocities that I remember (and that goes back to Ryan in Hungerford), the common theme is male, loner / “personality disorder”….

so he believed what his kid tells him and you didn’t believe yours and as a result you now don’t talk? Sounds like you were both wrong, really?

Very tricky, believing kids… Take on board what they say, but seek other viewpoints.

Our son has had a number of problems with bullying, including a concussive head bang which saw him in A&E. But, the most difficult to deal with was a “spat” between him and a very good friends son. Our son maintained he was being psychologically bullied, rather than physical. We believed him in a qualified manner, I think our friends believed their son in absolute terms. All sorts of problems when school stepped in to resolve. Both boys were accusing each other of doing the same thing. Very bad feeling between the adults, when there really wasn’t any need. I Think parents evening might have been influential on both sets of parents. Our son’s teachers comments on his behaviour, attitude, achievements, team working etc were entirely consistent with what he was telling us. Our friends, on the other hand, we’re to be seen doing a face palm….

So, I think (very much hope) our son was vindicated as telling the truth, but still stand by my approach of taking a qualified view.

Molgrips makes a good point – and reminds me of a comment a (grown up) cousin made many years ago…

He was expressing exasperation with the “normal” parental response of fawning over babies / toddlers / primary aged kids – ie when they are “sweet”. His view was that kids really needed their parents love, support and guidance at 12-18, when they are ugly, stroppy, spotty and confused!

These struck me at the time as wise words (I was late teens / early 20s, his own sons were early teens). Kids need time more in their teenage years than is generally (publicly?) acknowledged.