Costello for next week

Or Elton John’s (?) “Merry Christmas Maggie Thatcher”…!
(Nearly wet myself when kid’s primary school did that one in a play!

Lyrics

Who is musical director for the wake?

Anyone done a playlist? I’m thinking there are some real crackers

I’ve not come across proofing as an issue for modern hammerless breech loaders…

Had a few black powder guns in the family where it has been an issue – pitting due to the corrosive nature of black powder burning

Unless my father put all the money he had into the gun and more I doubt its worth anything.

My father once bought a shotgun for a tenner – it had Holland and Holland scribbled on it….

… so you never know.

Firstly, because the Home Office guidance – [SNIP] – officer in question entertains “genuine doubts”.

I always understood that that BASC guidance had been tested in court, to the extreme embarrassment of the chief officer in question…

(I admit, this was a few years ago, so the HO guidance likely to have changed to reflect – but I dont think that the primary legisaltion has changed???)

Yes
Opinion Trawl

Any evening listeners ?

Columbus ELO
Sublime ride

ahh – didn’t follow your link 🙂

useful stuff on here

Including:

The Firearms Act 1968 states very clearly that “The application shall be in the form provided”. This means that the official Shotgun Certificate application form, Firearms Form 103, is the only one you are required to complete. The Firearms Enquiry Officer (FEO) may ask for clarification of your answers to questions on the form but he may not ask you to complete any other forms or ask you to get anyone else to do so.

The most common unauthorised extra questions relate to your reasons for wishing to possess shotguns. The facts surrounding this are as follows:-

• The Firearms Acts are based on the rebuttable presumption against granting a shotgun certificate i.e. that every applicant has a good reason for possessing shotguns unless the Chief Constable is satisfied there may be a danger to public safety. As Home Office Guidance (11.9) says, “The Act does NOT require the applicant to make out a good case for being granted a certificate but rather extends the chief officer’s ground for refusing one. A chief officer should therefore need to
make further enquiries only when it comes to his notice that there may be genuine doubts about an applicant’s reasons for possessing a shotgun.”

• If you are pressed, ask for written reasons for the questions. They may talk about “elementary co-operation with the licensing authority” as recommended by Lord Cullen but elementary co-operation does not necessarily include answering questions which are not part of the normal process. If questioning becomes aggressive or rude,
ask for the name, rank and number of the officer concerned and then politely terminate the interview saying that before going any further you wish to contact BASC for advice.

• If the FEO asks where and what you shoot, then a general reply will suffice. “General” means sporting or competition use such as rough shooting, pest and
vermin control, wildfowling, game shooting, clay shooting etc. You are definitely NOT required to get landowners or clay shooting club officials to sign papers confirming this nor should you give the FEO their names or telephone numbers unless, as set out above, the police have some reason to be suspicious. If they have such suspicions then they should explain them to you. If the reply is that, “It is the chief
constable’s policy”, that is not an adequate explanation and is certainly not grounds for making intrusive inquiries.

from
BASC Shotgun guide

Northumberland like to know the reason why you want to own one.

Politely decline?

Or, provide the answer, but politely point out that they are straying beyond the requiremetns of the law by asking…?

Don’t have it deactivated! The current standards for deactivation completely ruin the gun.

I’d echo that – especially if it has any antique value.

IIRC, guns over a certain age can be taken off the licence without being deactivated…

A_A

I seem to remember that you a S Wales? Speak to their firearms licensing people in Bridgend. I found them very reasonable (but previous experience (Devon & Cornwall Police) warns me that this is very dependent on the officer involved).

Anyhow – I’d tread carefully with what you disclose. The situation you describe is unclear on current ownership / custodianship (don’t state publically on here!). There is a mandatory 5 year prison sentence for holding a shotgun without a licence – focuses the mind…

the rules state you need a good reason for having it

No that is incorrect.

The Police like to crack opn that this is the case, but it is not. There were some test cases a number of years ago. The Police had to retract their position.

Re:

Mines closed during Harold Wilsons’ premiership – 212
Mines closed during Margaret Thatcher’s premiership – 25

Some pit closure stats – source – BBC
BBC article, 2004

March 1984 – at the start of the Miner’s Strike – “174 collieries”. Not specified if these were deep mines etc.

“1985 alone” – 25 closures

“by 1992” – 97 closed

By 2004 – 156 closed….

ETA – S Wales only – that’s more than 25. And Tower to add to that list. stolen from here

Deep Duffryn 1979
Blaenavon 1980
Cwmgwili (transferred to private ownership) 1980 (I thought it was a bit later – 1982)
Coegnant 1981
Tymawr (inc Lewis Merthyr) 1983
Blaengwrach 1983
Bryniliw (was Brynlliw / Morlais) 1983
Britannia 1983
Wyndham / Western 1984
Celynen North (merged with Oakdale) 1985
Bedwas 1985
Blaenserchan (merged with Six Bells) 1985
Celynen South 1985
Treforgan 1985
Aberpergwm (as a BCC mine) 1985 (still operating under private ownership)
Penrikyber 1985
Abertillery 1985
St. John?s (Glam) 1985
Garw 1985
Cwm 1986
Nantgarw (was Nantgarw/Windsor) 1986
Six Bells (already merged with Marine) 1987 (I thought 1988)
Abernant 1988
Lady Windsor/Abercynon 1988
Cynheidre (was Cynheidre/Pentremawr) 1989
Merthyr Vale 1989
Oakdale 1989
Trelewis 1989
Blaenant 1990
Deep Navigation 1991
Marine 1989
Penallta 1991
Taff Merthyr 1992
Betws 2003 (under private ownership)

This is only the British Coal collieries and doesn’t include any of the small licensed mines of which numerous ones have shut since 1979

Still interested in these German low wage economy stats…

As I stated, a quick search suggests that average monthly salaries in Germany are higher than the UK – and the germans reportedly dont have the hyper-high end executive pay that we do to skew the average

Mines closed during Margaret Thatcher’s premiership – 25

I could probably rustle up 25 names just from South Wales!
Granted, they might span the full period of the Tory government, but even so, 25 sounds like a huge under estimate

built on 30% of the workforce on less than the OECD poverty level

Wow – that’s disabused me of my preconceptions! How does that compare to UK?
Care to share the source???

A quick google suggests US has the fourth highest OECD poverty rate, after Mexico (1), Israel (2)!, Chile (3), and followed by Turkey (5)!!!

OT = Oi Technophiles…

… any opinions on these… 😉

It was the unions that made a lot of nationalised industries inherently uncompetitive abroad and unprofitable in their own right.

There was an interesting piece on R4 Pm last night…

The polarisation of views re UK industry, decline and politics tends to focus on the politicians and unions – less emphasis is generally placed on the equally culpable management…

… and even less on the banking industry..

Without wanting to flog a (currently) popular whipping post, the commentator compared UK and German investment bank activities during the 70s and 80s. In Germany the banking sector resolutely backed – ie provided investment for, German manufacturing industry. In the UK, the banking sector were chasing “sexier” offshore opportunities and largely ignored investment in the UK.

Now, in part, this will be due to the role of Govt funding in UK Nationalised industries and private capital in German private industry, but even so the discussion exposed the stark contrast in the levels of investment in the UK.

These industries could have had a managed decline (a sort of evolutionary dying out)

Have you read (understood?) nothing of the above???

Our views of these industries have been conditioned (by both sides of the politcal spectrum)

What was required was investment and revitalisation

Plenty of examples aboves as to why it is beneficial to be involved in these PROFITABLE activities, even in a developed, western economy.

Have TATA invested in UK steelworks with a business plan marked “Managed Decline”?

Why have Honda, Nissan, BMW etc all invested in UK car plants? Throwing good money away? Surely that’s what UK Govmts do, not astutue foreign capitalists?

Our pre-conditioned views are bad for our economy!

you only have to see how the case of a mine collapse in Wales last year made the news to know that it wouldn’t be tolerated

IMHO, What happened at Gleision is a very good example of what can happen in the post privatisation vacuum.

Coal mining has gone from a nationalised behemoth (yes, unionised, but very stringently regluated, both externally – M&Q, HSE – and internally), to a a fragmented, privately owned and operated industry.

At it’s worst, represented by places like Gleision, the industry has returned to it’s Victorian roots, with small bands of miners toiling away by hand in small dark holes in the ground – quite the opposite of the modern mechanised industry that should have been the result of privatisation

explain how there is an open cast right next to it in hirwaun with 10-15 yrs worth of coal then?

most likely a different mineral lease?

The global economy can’t only be service based, of course. But the UK is only one part of it. I don’t see why it has to have its own manufacturing – why can’t it sell services to people who’re buying with money from manufacturing in other countries?

molgrips – to some extent I agree with your point, but the UK as a whole provides a good illustration as to why this model is not sustainable at a country level.

How many of us can provide services to offshore clients (directly or indirectly), or onshore clients using offshore money?

I (somewhat selfishly) disagreed with Labours 4% Uni education aspirations. Apart from being a tad unrealistic, it sows a high level of expectation on students, devalues the qualifications already in circulation and doesn’t match the capacity of the employment market to take up those quals.

The model you have illustrated (and has been attempted) has left a large proportion of the less able / those with less opportunity (and the less willing) with very poor prospects

Manufacturing went from making up 25.8% of the economy before Thatcher came to power to 22.5% of the economy when she left….that doesnt seem to suggest she decimated manufacturing at all really….just goes to show how little British Leyland and mining contributed to the economy at the time

Figures for mining would not be included with manufacturing

So if the land is still full of coal and the demand is so high for it (and the jobs) why is there no mass re opening of the mines?

There is a lot of mineral exploration activity in the UK and Ireland at the moment…

Because it would be too expensive to produce

Correct.

The most significant element of opening a NEW mine is the infrastructure cost.

Mine infrastructure – shaft sinking / decline construction, underground development (i.e. digging shafts and tunnels through uneconomic barren rock to provide the access to the economically viable stuff), surface support services, mineral handling and processing, transportation (e.g. most of the Welsh pits had rail connections)

All of this overhead costs £10s- 100Ms for new developemnts

But was previously in place for many mining areas.

Agreed

Still want some answers though…

I read somewhere that our economy was considered to be on a sounder footing than Germany because we relied less on manufacturing. The thinking being that businesses are more likely to move manufacturing to where it’s cheapest (resources, taxes, wages, etc.) and a service based economy was somehow more stable.

I think this thinking pre-dates the economic crisis.

An entirely service based economy cannot be sustainable. Someone has to generate the wealth – (primary or secondary industry). Service industry (tertiary – including financial services) merely recylces the wealth created elsewhere.

For 10-20 years I have been puzzled (actually very concerned) at how we seem to think that building another mini-shopping centre comprising the same old retail sheds will sustain our economy. it wont. it cant.

The best way to answer the OPs question is to look at other advanced western economies and ask whether they still engage in mining and manufacturing?

Where shall we start?

Cars / Automotive?
– Still made here, but not by British owned companies. Tells it’s own story…
– Where’s the pinnacle of the car industry? In competition, still UK? Luxury – Germany? Sports – Italy

Shipbuilding?
Where do the worlds luxury liners come from – Finalnd, Italy.
Civil ships – Germany
Top military warships – US

Aeronautics – EU (incl UK), US

Mining
– Where doesn’t do mining?
– Although many of the worlds mines are in developing countries / remote areas of developed countries, the companies engaged in mining include British, North American, Australian and South African (owned or or HQ’ed)companies and expertise.

There is absolutely no reason why these sectors cannot be profitable for developed economies…

… as a nation, we have simply elected (pun intended) not to take part in these areas of economic activity / wealth generation / employment generation

Do we want to be burning coal?

No. But do we want to burn oil, gas or rely on non-existant (at the mo) nuclear? It is part of the mix.

Mining is bigger than just coal, although that was always by far the dominant UK aspect.

Do the youth of today want to be miners?

Depends what you are asking them to choose between…?

unfitgeezer – troll or real id?

Either way, simplistic or uninformed…?

British workers weren’t going to work for pennies…other countries did/still do…we are all to blame for this…

Germany is the oft quoted alternative model – manufacturing still drives their economy. I am not aware that our German colleagues go to work for pennies…

in 2013 they wouldn’t be profitable would they ?

That shows a fundamental mis-understanding of the economics of mining. Many mines that were uneconomic in the 80s would be economic today – commodity prices have increased. We squandered our country’s economic resources for the sake of political / socio-economic dogma.

The basis for any economic assessment is the mineral reserve. If it is worked out (or the higher grade / easier to mine material worked out, then the economics become “difficult”). If the reserve is there, the economics hang on the infrastructure, ease of mining, processing and transportation. We had this infrastructure, but abandoned it.

Well, I’ll spare myself the embarrasment of behaving disgracefully (as I always thought I would)

Safe to say – no obituary will be complete without the word “polarising”

Does anyone have a link to the “Dancing Shoes” thread … 😉

Thanks. Some useful stuff there. I was mainly taken aback by the inspector’s attitude. Not sure if it was more “dumbed down UK” approach, CBA to do his job, or mate runs a flue installation Co.

The unit isn’t a current model, but the manual is still available as a PDF on the manufacturers website.

Footflaps, and others, thanks for the ljnk(s)

Jeez wept – number of chimney fires we’ve dealt with in the past at home…

Parents many times, most relatives at least once.. And all with old fashioned chimneys that have been there 100s years – far bigger risk IMO. One relative almost burnt his roof off because the builder had extended a wooden rafter through the chimney breast – that particular builder probably died in the cholera.

Can’t imagine that a modern, external SS flue would present anything like the same risk – especially if installed properly, which I do wang to do

It will be through the wall an up the outside… Existing gas flue is probably <6″ / 150mm and I think the wood burner is 7″. So existing hole most likely needs to be reamed.

Also expect to have to take out a panel of floor and cast a new hearth / plinth.

Eta

I may as well spout one of the obvious ones but a lot of insurers will invalidate your house insurance if any damage is caused via the fire, unless a hetas certificate is present.

To say nothing of all the old decrepit chimneys that routinely get used…

So we’re no longer capable of doing what we’ve been doing since living in caves… 🙄

I might well decide that I haven’t got the time or inclination to do it myself, but I’m not over keen on being told I can’t, especially when accompanied with no sources of reference to go away and research

ETA – Ta for the last two posts!

Shane Mcgowan
– How anybody so ugly & wasted could create such beauty is beyond belief…

Agreed.

i dont understand what your panick isabout you have a date and know its either 40 miles closer to or 40 further away?

🙄

As a family we have other commitments to work around. My son has ballet on that Sunday, so bringing MM forward a week is a pita (also just 1 week after the Dragon Ride).

So location becomes an important part of the decision

Still nothing on location?

Entry time is drawing closer – and other stuff is appearing in the diary

big n daft, my point was that I can’t see Wales or Scotland wanting to remain part of the UK if the party of well off England wants to remove England from the UK.