Here’s the latest as reported by the BBC.

An improved offer on public sector pensions could be withdrawn if an agreement is not reached, unions have been warned by the government.

BBC news.

Sounds like threats and intimidation to me – who’d have thought the Lib Dems were capable of it?

Apparently, at the local schools if they don’t strike they have to turn up at school and they will be found work to do. which seems fair..

Your vast misunderstanding of what it might be like to be a teacher comes shining through.

It’s not like working in a pie factory. You don’t just stop at 3 p.m. and go home. Every teacher I know does loads of hours outside of school anyway. Teachers don’t need to be “found work” – they are largely self directed and highly motivated. I don’t suppose many will be bothered either way whether they have to be at the school or not, but I’m sure that plenty (even those on strike) will be using at least some of the time for planning or marking.

that is lost over the course of the year though, as the next day’s productivity is ‘lost’ and so on. Unless everyone’s going to come in on a saturday and make the time up, I think lost is a pretty good description..

So what is it that is “lost” then?

What do you think will happen other than some figures in some accounts being slightly different?

Do you think that people will go hungry because of it, or become homeless?

Most of our industry is regulated by demand, not supply – we can make plenty stuff without much bother, which is why there isn’t much money in it.

The only things that in short supply are services (health, education etc) because they can only be provided by people, largely in the public sector.

Alas, we currently have a Govt that sees the provision of services not for their own sake, but as a potential revenue stream for their mates in private industry. The real agenda is that they want to do their very best to deskill and cheapen services prior to selling them off in order to secure the highest profits for future private providers.

Obvious.

Of course another way of looking at it is to think that that £500 M of productivity isn’t “lost” at all – it’s just delayed for a day.

dmjb4,

Mr Strutton is GMB national secretary. Less than 1/3 of his members back the strike. 2/3 of them are pretty cheesed off that the union is proposing that the majority of members should hand over an obscene amount of money so that a small minority can live in luxury.

Very simple question dmjb4,

If 2/3 of the union are against the strike, why didn’t they just vote against it when balloted?

My heads a big mashed up mess

Can’t say I have anything useful to say in regard to the big picture, except to wish you luck.

But on this particular point I would say – sleep on it, and before you do do anything terminal, just have a think about how you see your life once you are apart – where will you both live, where will the kids live, how much will you see them, how will your finances change, how will you feel if you don’t see your OH again except as an acquaintance with a half share in your kids?

edit: Oh, and also, be aware that in 4 or 5 years the kids will be reasonably independent and you will start to get some of your life back which will also help – can you hang on that long?

edit edit: Can’t imagine how hard being a single parent of 4 and 2 year olds must be – ours are now 8 and 6 and it has been a huge effort for both of us to get to where we are with them.

I did. Then they privatised us. Then they changed our pension (to something broadly comparable to what’s being offered right now). Then they slashed our redundancy terms. Then they made me redundant.

So that would be the private sector that did that then?

Still, I’m sure you’ll dismiss that allegation at some form of “ism” on my part

total pratism?

The results showed a 20% lower overall standardized age-adjusted mortality from all causes in the most-exposed group. Furthermore, there appeared to be a dose-response relationship (a smaller group with 0-5 mSv exposure had lower mortality than the unexposed group, but higher than the 5-to-50 mSv group). (Table 3.1.C1, page 303)

I’m not going to go and read it, but the obvious question here is for how long after exposure was she tracking mortality rates?

Are you ASSUMING that some findings she made over a short period are applicable over a lifetime?

Oh and don’t ever moan about the quality of public sector staff, you will never attract decent workers if you don’t have a good package.

Good point.

It’s funny how the people who want to cut pay and conditions in public services are the same ones who keep telling us that we have to pay managers more and more in order to attract the best and brightest.

To get rid of any public support you might have had?

That would be the private sector public of course?

Just as a matter of interest though, in what way was this “public support” you speak of being expressed?

What had you done to express your concern at the way the public sector is having it’s pay and conditions stripped away?

And what impact do you think your “public support” has had on Govt policy?

What do you think that “public support” means if it doesn’t actually include anything other than saying that you are supportive?

Actually I think that the public that is supportive is still supportive, and that you clearly weren’t “supportive” in the first place, so no loss there eh?

jonba

Just out of interest, those teachers of you striking, what do you expect the parents to do with their children?

Interestingly, my wife had (seriously) suggested that some of the striking teachers at her school might organise a free Tolpuddle Martyrs themed event for children at the village hall next to the school. I think it was shot down by the higher up powers that be though.

However, just out of interest, what do you think the purpose of a strike is?

Being older, makes you worse at your job, then?

Definitely!

All the centenarians I know are a right work shy bunch of wasters. Sitting around in their retirement homes using up medical supplies willy-nilly.

Have they not heard of Dignitas?

Coincidentally, the annual death risk from driving a car in the US is also about 1 in 9000 (40,000 deaths, 360 million people). The difference is thyroid cancer has a 98% cure rate.

And the difference between your examples is that driving a car has some (more) benefits to weigh against the risk than the generation of electircity by nuclear power as nuclear power is easily substitutable, whereas cars aren’t.

The fact that the risks are statistically as likely is irrelevant.

In fact it follows from your expressed view that as we are all going to die it doesn’t matter when or how it happens.

Which of course, is stupid.

Small Engineering company, not enough staff. It’s not all good I’ll have to go in during the night to make the time up or the company will suffer big probs.

inbred, not wanting to turn this into a willy-waving contest, but as I’ve said many times before in these sorts of threads, my wife, who is a teacher almost invariably sits down to around 2 hours of marking and prep for the next day once the kids are in bed, and has been doing so every weekday for the last 10 years to my knowledge. How do you think that is different to you “going in during the night to make up time”? Once and for all, people need to get over this idea that teaching is 9 to 3 with 13 weeks holiday. Good teachers work long hours. My wife probably does a 55-60 hour week during term time and maybe a 10-20 hour week during holidays. I suspect that she is towards one end of the curve, but it is not a cushy job.

We’ll (as taxpayers) will cover all the payments you’ve made/pension rights accrued so far – and from this point on, all your future pension payments are put into a hypothecated fund, and have to be fully funded, any shortfall from this point on is made up either by members or reduced payouts.

sound fair?

And while you’re at it you should of course remove all tax relief from all pensions contributions – after all it seems unfair that the low paid, possibly/probably with no pensions whatsoever, should be subsidising the rich so they can take their massive salaries so tax efficiently – but of course, if they did do that no one would have a pension at all and we’d be totally up $hit creek when millions retired skint and started to draw on the state for support anyway. Apart from the damage that all of this is doing now, there will be a lot of unintended consequences up the road, but of course by then, the current generation of MPs and Ministers will all be in clover with their own substantial pensions.

Z-11

Why should I subsidise your lifestyle, now or in the future?

Why should NHS workers subsidise your healthcare if you get sick and need more treatment than you have currently “paid for” with your taxes?

How would you like it if in order to “save money” the Govt decided not to cut workers pensions, but to cut services offered? So for example, healthy people would stop “subsidising” sick people?

Come on, think about it.

You’re not “subsidising” anyone – your taxes are paying for health care workers, teachers, social workers, the army, the police, firefighters, librarians, traffic wardens etc etc etc etc. at the rates which they were contracted to do the job. If you think the public sector is so cushy, go get a job in the public sector.

What the argument basically comes down to is whether it’s morally right for private sector workers who typically work longer hours for less money and retire later on lower income non index linked pensions to continue paying a disproportionate amount towards pension schemes set up for public sector workers who typically work less hours for more money and retire earlier on higher paying index linked pensions.

I think we have to argue about whether what you just said is true first.

You can probably just use the old particulars and photos then. If you use the same estate agents that sold it to you they can probably have it back on the market by this afternoon.

Have you thought of moving house?

Anyone want to buy a Red Planet £10 voucher that I won at some Trailquest type event about 5 years ago? £5 for cash (might be collectable).

What’s wrong with Earl Grey?

Tesco had a Twinings Earl Grey BOGOF last week so I bought 800 tea bags.

the predicted death toll as a result of widespread low level radiation exposure from Chernobyl that you have relied on falls apart

And I hear that housing there is very cheap.

I stand by tens of thousands to maybe hundreds of thousands deaths in total from chernobyl. People are still dying from it today

We all die.

You mean premature deaths.

Which could be a week premature or 70 years premature.

you’re terminology is loose, bordering on hysterical, and your argument accordingly weakened…….

your spelling is poor, bordering on chav-like, and your counter-argument is accordingly weakened…….

I’m saying that an anecdote is not evidence.

I think an anecdote generally refers to a story about someone that your mate might once have known who probably did something (maybe). Or was it his sister?

Tell you what. You convince yourself of whatever you like. I’ll stick with the evidence from reputable sources.

Are you saying that Edukator is not a reputable source?

– have had a couple of 2-year relationships and a couple of 6-month ones, currently single

Actually, I suspect that what was really happening was that you didn’t want to turn up and look like a loser (not being judgemental BTW – just a suggestion that the problem might have been your insecurity in the face of her “progress” since you split – pretty common reaction I would have thought).

Anyway all went well so just try to forget the whole thing and hope you don’t get invited to any more parties.

Secondly: went to the party anyway, and she didn’t show.

She must have heard you were coming and couldn’t trust herself not to throw away the marriage and start again with you.

Ransos,

Do you not see the general problem in arguing that the theoretical output of a system is a more reliable measure of it’s efficiency than the actual measured output?

What does that have to do with the demographics of the UK?

Sod all.

But so what?

I just kind of took it for granted that I was addressing the users of this forum, not the nation as a whole.

It’s great that you are in that position, but for the majority I suspect the financial aspect of installing solar heating, insulating a home etc is a fairly important factor.

Come off it. This forum is filled with people agonising over which new £3000 bike to buy.

We bought some of these – Cath Kidston.

They are china, so nice to drink out of.
Don’t cost too much – £4
Readily available – Waitrose/John Lewis/Online
Tough – only had 1 of 6 break so far which was a builder knocking it 3 feet onto stone – then easily replaced.
Lots of designs – so you can do the full chintz look or go a bit plainer, or mix and match.
Just the right size – bigger than the “normal” mug size, but not so offensive to my parents as the pint mugs I used to serve their tea in when they visited.

You asked for examples of measures that pay back in pure financial terms. And I gave them to you. If you want a different answer, ask a different question.

I just don’t see that financial payback is relevant (unless you don’t have the money) – the main thing is that it makes sense in carbon terms.

Most of what we spend our money on isn’t financially sensible.

At the time you spend your money on a Rolex you are trading a lot of money for some sort of satisfaction at a rate that you set and that is personal to you. You could just buy a cheap Casio to get the same functionality. Financially it makes no sense. We’re currently having some walls internally insulated as part of a refurbishment project and I haven’t even bothered to work out the extra financial cost – it probably won’t pay back in pure financial terms, but I am sure it will save carbon, and that will make me feel good, which is why I don’t mind spending money on it.

This is dynamic demand as I mentioned earlier. Companies are currently being paid (per kWh switched) to turn their machinery on at low loads so that the power companies don’t have to turn the power stations down as it’s expensive.

And we can all do it domestically right now at zero cost.

What’s your excuse?

mcboo said,

If the events in Fukushima did anything they proved that even if you have a reactor that is decades out of date and of questionable safety you can site it right on a major geological faultline and hit it with a massive tsunami…..and it still doesnt do anything like the damage that Greenpeace would lead you to believe.

I just find this attitude unbelievable.

80,000 people have been evacuated from their homes and are unlikely ever to be allowed to return.

What would be your threshold for seeing a problem?

Maybe we could have an extra bit tagged on to the end of the weather forecast? “well everyone, its going to be windy tonight, so don’t forget to turn your washing machines on when you go to bed”

Why not?

We already set our dishwasher and washing machines to come on during the middle of the night, not because it saves us money, but because we know that all of that important “base load” generation isn’t really doing much at that time, so that it is probably better for us all in the long run to try and help run it efficiently.

What annoys me about all the short sighted people who trot out the usual line about wind/renewables being intermittent and that we therefore need all this back up capacity to replace them when it is not windy, is that they conveniently forget that demand isn’t constant either.

The smart way to use electricity is to use more of it for non time critical things at times when there is more of it available. No?

Don’t worry, there’s a plan.

What the Govt/Whitehall is currently planning on doing is arguing about Nuclear and carbon capture until it is too late to do anything about any of them. They don’t actually want to build these things because they are too politically (financially) difficult. We will then be forced to build more gas power stations and some small amount of renewables, but no one will be able to criticise because by then there will be no option.

Of course we will then be totally at the mercy of Russia for our energy supplies.

And climate change will be completely out of control (but it probably is already and it now looks as if the politicians are off the hook on that “sorry, we were much too busy sorting out the debt crisis – not our fault”)

Best bet is to go down Edukator’s route and DIY your energy if you can, or at least start to wean yourself off overuse if you can’t.

Woodburner.

End of.