Etc…

Standards of living are improving across the developing world

Photographer Sebastiao Salgado documented gold mining in Brazil[/url]

by giving a proportion of our business, trade and wealth to those countries we can gradually improve their lot

Photographer Edward Burtynsky has documented (among other things) shipbreaking in Bangladesh – go to the “ships” section to see how we are “gradually improving their lot”[/url]

I think most people in poor countries would want us to take their resources, as long as we give them money in return.

Niger Delta photo essay

I’ve just explained why I think that current arrangements aren’t “improving their lot.”

And what you refer to as “giving a proprtion of our business” I’m afraid I would characterise more as “taking a proportion of their resources”

The personal stuff is just silly.

molgrips, you are making my point for me:

if it wasn’t for us there’d be no market for them to sell stuff, so no manufacturing and no job

And you think that we take that responsibility seriously?

I agree with you that we have all the power.

My point is that we choose to exploit it ruthlessly.

If you had a brother and you were both on a desert island starving, then someone gave you a shopping trolly full of food. Do you think your brother should be grateful if you decided to let him have a biscuit?

Do you think they’d rather be working in a factory on £3 per hour, or scratching in the fields in a subsistence farming agro economy?

I think they’d rather be doing neither.

But while we have all the power and only give them those choices it’s tough sh1t isn’t it?

But we are giving it to them. We can safely give them a lot less than we’d give someone here and it still equates to plenty of money for them. Because they live in poor countries and their living costs are low.

They have a fixed resource – 8 hours a day of labour. We can either pay them fairly for it or not. Wealth is still flowing to them, the question is, is ENOUGH wealth flowing to them.

Wealth is not flowing to them. It works like this:

A worker in some third world country produces $11 worth of goods (at our prices).

We pay them $1 – that is $1 into their economy.

So that leaves $10 paid into our economy.

In other words their effort serves only to increase THE DIFFERENTIAL between their economy and our economy.

They will never be able to compete with us in buying resources, because we can always pay more for the things we really want.

However, this is a gross oversimplification due to a few other very big problems in the world.

1) We have finite resources and seem to be on (or beyond) the brink of using many of them.

2) As resources become rare more (not fewer) people will find goods and services beyond their grasp.

3) The US/China situation as mentioned above.

4) Our entire economy is based on debt. It REQUIRES economic growth to function.

You do not HAVE to exploit poor people when you trade with a developing nation. And many companies do not.

You don’t HAVE to, but, way, way too many do.

Like I said earlier on, we can only live the lives we live because there are shed loads (literally) of people far away doing things we don’t want to.

Really, because it seems to me that £3 per hour is worth a lot more to someone in Zimbabwe than £4 per hour to someone in the UK.

Not if they want an ipod.

“Ah, now I see, when we invest in those third world countries it is for their benefit!!!”

No, I’d suggest its for everyones benefit

That’s not my experience of global companies / capitalism. A few examples that come to mind are:

Union Carbide in Bhopal
BP in the Gulf of Mexico
Palm oil in Indonesia (now being touted as a sustainable fuel to burn!!!)
Coca-Cola in Kerala
Deforestation and slavery for beef production in Brazil – all for export to the west
Blood Diamonds in Africa
Sweatshops supplying Nike and Primark etc.
Shipbreaking in Bangladesh
Tigerprawn production / destruction of mangrove swamp (and livelihoods) in SE Asia
The industrialisation of illicit drugs and all that goes with it
Halliburton in Iraq
Shell in Nigeria

The list is pretty much endless. There are thousands of examples of western companies out for all they can get. Slash and burn and move on.

Still not convinced. A shedload of money has left the West and gone to the East to pay for all the goods and services we buy from them.

By definition, not as much as would have been spent producing the goods and services here. Therefore we are decreasing the relative wealth of the people doing the work.

QED

Being unemployed in one of Madrid’s poorer suburbs would be very grim, no different to anywhere else really.

Exactly (again). No different to anywhere else.

Probably no different even, to being poor in the county that is top of the World Economic Forum’s global rating, whichever that is, because when you are poor, life is shit, and don’t expect the rich to be giving you a hand up.

Funnily enough Spain’s at 42 in the World Economic Forum’s global rating, and has had double-digit unemployment for the past 20 years.

Yes, I’d hate to live in Spain…

i) Would the people and national finances of Zimbabwe/China/Romania be better off without investment and money coming in from the “rich west”?

Ah, now I see, when we invest in those third world countries it is for their benefit!!! Actually, the serious answer to your question is that I think many indigenous populations would have been “better off” had they been left to their own devices and that even now they are hooked into a global economy many poor people would still be better off if they weren’t being exploited by the “rich west”. Unfortunately, for historical reasons we are all tied to the dollar. For years China has been prepared to take dollars as payment for work done by its population, but those dollars are now only worth anything so long as China doesn’t call in it’s debts. Catch 22. China needs the US to keep buying goods it can’t afford and for its own people to carry on working for virtually nothing.

Would you rather have two million people employed on (relative to national average wage) poorly paid jobs employed in the UK, or two million people employed in India on (relative to national wage) very well paid jobs.

I don’t see why that has to be an either/or question. I think a more reasonable question would be “Is it right that a hundred human beings live in poverty to support one human being living in luxury?”

iii) free trade prevents wars, discuss!

I don’t know. I can’t think of any example of free trade in action.

No, WEALTH is flowing away from them. The fact that they get paid a dollar a day isn’t making them richer. It is hooking them into a system that exploits them.

My counterpart in China is probably not getting paid well. What’s the difference?

Exactly. What is the difference?

Waht explanation is there except that the rules have already been set up so that your counterpart in China loses out (relatively speaking) to you? In other words, wealth flows from the poor to the rich.

How can you get money from poor people? They are poor.

Oh dear.

You know all those goods that are made in sweatshops, minerals that are dug out of holes in the ground, crops that are grown overseas….?

Is it rich people doing that?

Money is just a proxy for labour, and when I last looked it seemed to be the poor doing most of the labouring and the rich thinking up the systems to stop them profiting from it.

Or am I wrong?

The right wing are not just trying to make tons of money for themselves.

Yes they are!

The idea is that if people are allowed to create wealth then everyone should get at least some of it. That theory has holes, but in reality it’s what’s worked best so far.

It’s the only thing that’s been tried so far!

And when you say “worked best” – you have to ask “worked best for whom?”

Unfortunately the very underpinnings of our economy move wealth from the poor to the rich. That is indisputable. That’s how the likes of Gates, Buffet etc got to where they are. Our system cannot do other than produce a small rich elite, a moderate sized well off and a massive number of poor. Fortunately for us we are ALL in the well off group, and the poor are all in India/China/Africa/South America etc.

‘m guessing he’s thinking of the huge number of US millionaires who donate large amounts of money to charity, for example Bill Gates, Warren Buffet…

I’m not sure that 2 is a huge number :?

I’ve only flicked through the thread, but have in the past had similar problems to you.

My opinion is in line with several others here, that you are trying to run too fast. Run slower for longer until you have got a good few hundred miles under your belt, then see how upping the speed goes.

Old cars don’t lose horsepower but everybody else’s newer cars have more horsepower.

It’s a bit like policemen getting younger.

I believe (and I raise this as a question for someone more in the know than me to answer) that you may be able to build a conservatory without planning permission when you would need planning permission for a more solid extension of the same size and shape?

Therefore, although your conservatory may be legal, converting it into “not a conservatory” may require PP?

But the simple answer is to phone your local planners and ask them. I’ve found mine to be quite helpful (sometimes).

I prevent weeds from re-establishing themselves on various bits of unofficial singletrack.

And I did plan and do lots of re-surveying of the map for the British MTBO champs last year in Wareham Woods.

10 month old kids are pretty unpredictable, likely to be changing sleep patterns, subject to many and varied illnesses etc.

I wouldn't do it.

And despite the fact that your in-laws offered, I think they might not really be fully considering what they might be letting themselves in for. It's a long time since they had their own kids to look after.

But then again we've got 6 and 5 year olds now and have only left them, I think, for 2 or 3 overnights with grandparents, and didn't leave them at all before the youngest was 3. OTOH they both ride their bikes on the road to school, have drunk from mountain streams, play with hammers and screwdrivers etc, so we're not wrap in cotton wool types either.

9" grinder with diamond blade is minimum.

Which you can hire, but they will charge you for the amount of wear you cause the blade, so probably best to hire the cutter but buy your own blade (which you can ebay after if you don't think you'll need it again).

Why not put in some plastic ducting and then use plastic pipes (Hep2O or similar) for the heating that you can thread through after. I did that in a previous house with solid floors and it worked great. You can still use copper between the floor and your rads for an old fashioned look. Personally I wouldn't want to embed copper pipes in concrete – it's asking for trouble.

Difficult as the book I enjoyed reading most at the time I probably wouldn't enjoy at all now – Swiss Family Robinson, when I was about 12.

But then again I remember struggling through LOTR when I was a kid and taking weeks to read it, then reading it again and enjoying it much more when the film came out.

But in terms of sheer pleasure (not great literature) I would have to go for the Spenser novels (Boston private detective) of Robert B Parker. There's about 40 of them, they take about a day or two to read and they are brilliant. Just re-reading one of them at the moment.

Proper old school toy shop.

You know Lego, Britians, Airfix and cap guns.

Can you still get cap guns?

I've got one from DPS. At the moment it is heated purely by 2 immersion heaters on economy 7 tarif, but it has a coil in the bottom for solar thermal (when I get around to it) and also tappings for a wood burner back boiler and regular boiler (if I or any future owner of the house wants to connect them). I've got a woodburner downstairs but at the moment it's just used for space heating and I probably won't be getting a back boiler version as it takes me enough time to get wood sorted already. The main issue with it is that it's not that brilliantly insulated, but it's a couple of years old now and I think the later DPS ones are better. Other brands are available.

With respect to getting hot water out, the heat exchanger produces very hot water at full mains pressure no problem, so no need for power showers and baths fill up pretty quick.

There's always someone cooler than you.

I think it depends on motivation. If you spend a grand because you think you ought to spend a grand then that is pretty lame. If you spend a grand because your kid happens to want some specific thing that happens to cost a grand (like a nice bike) and you think they deserve it, then I think maybe not so bad. OTOH I couldn't see myself spending anything like that on my kids as they are only 5 and 6. They'd have to be old enough to be committed to a sport or musical instrument or some other hobby before I would spend (invest) that sort of money. I start to feel twitchy once we've spent about £100 on the usual sort of non-utility Christmas stuff.

Bending down so my 4 year old, riding on my shoulders, could press the button at a pelican crossing. Had to put him down then support myself on walls and buildings so I could drag myself 500 yards home.

Picking up same child at the bottom of the stairs on Christmas Eve a year later, just prior to cooking a big meal for family and visiting parents on Christmas Day – that also involved leaning on kitchen units and dragging myself around on Christmas morning so I could do it.

Picking up my camera bag just before starting a job! Involved lying down for 10 minutes whilst being fed large amounts of ibuprofen so I could get up and "keep calm and carry on"

Tim, maybe you can give us your ebay identity so we can all add you to our don't buy filters too?

I always go with DHL or Parcelforce as they will collect from my work, saves me having to line up in the stupidly long queues at my local post office!

Or to put it another way, "F*ck it. It's someone else's money I'm spending so why should I bother doing what most reasonable people would do"

Que? Are you reading anything in my posts, or just sprouting from the hip?

Yes I am reading your posts. I was just pointing out, as you obviously can't see it, that you still SEEM unrepentant.

You just apologised again, but then you devalued your apology with the Hail Mary stuff. Which is no apology at all.

The next move by the way is for you to transfer all of your rage at being "swindled out of your rightful £200" onto me for pointing out that you're still (in your head) not actually facing up to your responsibilities.

Go ahead. It won't help you though.

Ah the old relativism defence – always the justification of those who know they're in the wrong.

I love the way you still can't actually bring yourself to simply admit your mistake without trying to justify it.

We all know it, you know it, but you still can't actually bring yourself to say it can you?

Ah yes, the old conscience versus money dilema – always tricky for those with very little conscience.

Driving Over Lemons

Elfinsafety,

You keep your cheapo Tange headset.

And while I'm listening to "Fingal's Cave", you can carry on listening to "The Birdy Song"

The reason Chris King headsets have the reputation that they have is because they have been performing brilliantly for years.

It may be that there are other headsets around now that are as good, or better value, but ten years ago there was nothing to compete with Chris King. Hence you won't find others that have lasted for 10 years.

I've had a Chris King headset on a bike for 10 years, have thoroughly thrashed it, never regreased it and it still works perfectly.

So why would anyone who has experienced that want to try something else? That is why Chris King has its reputation and still sells.

I also find it difficult to contemplate how a headset could be "better" than a Chris King, which to my mind seems about as flawlessly performing a bit of kit as ever I've come across.

These days, I prefer spending quiet time with my family, and I honestly wouldnt want to change it.

Ditto, although I did take part in the Isle of Jura Fell Race[/url] this year – which definitely should be somewhere well up my list.