Interesting how some view the whole issue as ideological, when Hutton used to be a Labour minister, didn’t he?

The Govt isn’t following the Hutton advice (for ideological reasons) – that’s the point.

I’m going LPG next

Just remember why you are doing it and don’t allow yourself to get so fat and comfortable in the job that you wouldn’t be prepared to walk when they ask you to do something that you feel crosses the line.

@esselgruntfuttock

I’ve got no idea how you are going to maintain your pay/pension over the coming years, but you are doing an important job that I (and probably most on here) would not want to do, so good luck to you.

@don simon

wheel clampers don’t do there jobs for bettering of their fellow human beings, they do it because it’s all they can do, which is sad.

I agree with you that it is sad, but totally disagree that “it is all that they can do” – it might well be all that is available in this crappy money grabbing society we live in, but that is different. Just to go with the wheelclamping example, who are the wheelclamping companies run by? Money grabbing businessmen or crooks I’d say, who are prepared to and are allowed to manipulate their workforce (OK, some of them I’m sure are already fairly well down the line towards criminality anyway), but this is the flipside of the drive for “efficiency” and “productivity” – you get some firm that only sees the bottom line, thinks that it would be great to get a few quid in from the wheelclampers for practicing extortion on their property and all of a sudden society ratchets another notch down in the race to the bottom. We’d all be a lot better off if we thought more about quality of life and paid people properly to provide proper services instead of spending all our money on (non)essentials like Sky TV, plasma screens, new mobile phones every year, processed food, shit clothes from New Look, shit furniture from IKEA etc etc…..Grrrrrrrrrr……..

I’m guessing you mean ‘you’re’ ?

There you go, you’ve got a competitive advantage already – you could be an English teacher.

What is your actual job in large scale manufacturing BTW?

Again, my own opinion is that any job working 8.30 til 3.30 with 15 plus weeks of holiday plus numerous bingo days inbetween is part time compared to most occupations.

I completely agree with you.

But teaching is nothing like that.

I meant the state pension.

I thought you probably did, but the teachers pension isn’t just the state pension is it? They pay 6% of salary on top of the normal NIC for their pension scheme, but the Govt is proposing that that should rise to 9% at teh same time as devaluing it by 15% and making them wait an extra 8 years before they get it.

One bad interview does not make me change a view.

It wasn’t just a bad interview. He’s a Government minister and he couldn’t justify, even in his own terms, the false assertion being put out by the Govt that the scheme is unaffordable. The Government’s own report shows that the cost of the scheme will fall significantly over time as a % of GDP.

I’ve worked for the government in several departments for over 18 years of my life – very few of them were even close to efficient and despite my best efforts to improve the situation, most of them were bigger than me and more resistant to change.

Ha ha ha – you weren’t a bloody consultant were you?

Things have changed and there isn’t the money

You’re repeating yourself, so I will too.

The Government’s own report shows that the cost of the scheme will fall significantly over time as a % of GDP.

i.e it will already cost less than it does now – about 25% less over 40 years, with no further changes. So it is affordable.

I think pension payments should be means tested and those wealthy enough get nothing.

So we take away all the private pensions that bankers/company directors/self employed people etc pay into at the moment, if they pass the means test?

OK, sounds reasonable.

Well, my wife’s not on strike, but it was a tough decision for her.

But can you honestly say that you think that it is reasonable that the teachers should, at one stroke,

Pay 50% more in the way of contributions.

AND lose 15% of the value of their pensions because of the change from RPI

AND work another 8 years before they get anything?

Because that is the reality of what they are being asked to cough up.

It’s a lot isn’t it?

And frankly, I think there is way more to the whole thing than economics.

Did you listen to Evan Davies interviewing Francis Maude on the Today programme this morning?

Go and have a listen and see if you can detect ANY satisfactory answers when he was pressed to give any factual basis behind the Govt’s position.

Today Francis Maude interview

@TooTall

Me too – I think they are a bunch of back-sliding work dodgers.

What, all of them, including my wife, and all of the teachers here on this forum?

Go on then ridingscared, give us a laugh, what essential yet undervalued job do you do?

Difficult decision – no right answer.

So far I’ve managed to get to the age of 45 without ever having been to a funeral. I don’t feel I’ve missed out on anything.

My wife wanted to go on strike, but open the village hall for a “celebration of the right to unionise day” for school children, run by and paid for by the teaching staff.

All got political though so it didn’t happen.

Consequently she’s not on strike (only because of the impact she knew it would have on parents), but quite conflicted over it.

Good luck to all the strikers I say.

Bear in mind that the CRC Marathon is in that area this weekend:

http://www.mtb-marathon.co.uk/events/marshbrook.php

So might be a bit busy.

Leave the rocket to it’s own devices for a bit though and you get lots of … rocket seed. V easy to harvest and reuse.

My garlic is ready, but it was planted in November, in fact as soon as we get a couple of dry days I’ll be pulling it up.

First couple of courgettes nearly ready.

What we’ve been harvesting so far is spinach, broad beans, lettuce and chard.

I’ve had a few things suffering due, maybe because of drought, namely dwarf beans and peas.

On the whole things starting to perk up though – unfortunately also lots of weeds.

Get some trail running shoes, not road shoes and run off road as much as you can – more fun.

When I started running I was very fit from biking and probably went too hard on the runs to start with leading to some injuries. You need to toughen up the bits of your legs that are running specific before you do anything too hard. Why not ride out to some nice scenic areas with your runners in a backpack, just do a very short run and then carry on with your ride – that way you get plenty exercise, a run in the best terrain and limit your chances of injury?

I’m going to be there all week taking pics again.

Completely unofficially, and maybe I’ll get told off for mentioning it, but there have often been power sockets available at some of the overnights where people have managed to charge phones. I guess they are saying none available because they can’t guarantee that there will be.

The last 2 years Gore have also done a try before you buy deal where they lend you some kit, so that will probably cover one day if they are doing that again. By the end of the week though there are usually some fairly shonky looking outfits.

I’ve been there for the last 3 years and the food has always been good, except maybe for the “Caribbean night” they did a couple of years ago, that was frankly bizarre.

If I were Trailbreaks, I’d be on the phone to Garmin or Magellan right now with a brilliant concept for a GPS-based adventure event that they could splash their brand all over and that feels modern and original and exciting and nothing to do with Tracksters

I’d love to hear what this is, as I can’t hink of one. The only thing that I find interesting about GPSs is as a recording device to show me where I went wrong when map reading after the event.

Can’t say that I’m personally bowled over at the idea of geocaching.

I suspect that some super new GPS based bike event would be, as you say, unappealing to the people who currently like TQs, so rather pointless in terms of the current discussion, but I’d be happy to be proved wrong if you can think of something.The fact that GPSs have been around for quite a few years now without anyone coming up with some brilliant new format suggests to me that there isn’t one to be had. TQ organisers aren’t stick in the muds and have tried all sorts of variations on the theme.

The only time (I think) that a GPS would give an advantage is when person setting the course has used one to put the course out! (which IMO shouldn’t be done)

I’ve had discussions with organisers before when I’ve not found a control where I was expecting to find it and they’ve said “but we used a GPS” (mainly in adventure races actually) – when the competitors themselves where not allowed to use a GPS. The reason that this is wrong is that actually maps do not always correspond exactly with GPS readings, because maps are an *interpretation* of what is on the ground. For example, roads are not really as wide in real life as they are shown on the map and corners might be exaggerated on the map to help the person using it. I’ve had similar problems where organisers have used 1:25,000 maps to set the course, but the competitors have been given 1:50,000 maps and somehow been expected to find controls when they don’t have the information available to the course planner. (sorry if this is getting a bit technical, but it is relavant to those taking part, even if they don’t realise it).

Organisers should use the same navigation aids to plan/put the course out as the competitors have to follow it.

Granted that is my poor memory, but is a great reason why a GPS would help.

You’ve still got to look at the GPS – and it’s not like Nav in a car where the unit already knows the network of routes, so do you sit down for half an hour before you start and program the route in? And what if you get halfway round and decide you need to change your route? Do you stop for another 15 minutes to programme a new route (thereby using up even more time so you have to change it again?).

Learning to read the map is a skill that you get better at – seeing past extraneous detail and concentrating on the important bits, and map-memory is also something you can improve.

Martin is probably right about decreasing numbers, in that at the peak of popularity of TQ there was less competition from other events, but I think Trailbreak also made the decision to follow the relatively easy money through their Trail RIdes and Sportives and didn’t pay enough attention to the quality of their Navigator events – thus making a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy.

Also, the whole marketing direction of mountain biking doesn’t do TQ any favours. The message through the mags is all about all mountain bikes, trail centres etc, which is all fine, but they really aren’t interested in covering TQ/MTBO type stuff so it’s true that many newbies to mountainbiking don’t hear much about it. OTOH whenever I speak to newbies after events, they almost always tell me they enjoyed it. Ironic really.

Presumably the ads are supplied automatically based on common terms in the forum?

It’s better/worse than that.

You can also get ads based on things that you’ve looked at elsewhere on t’internet (hence MrSalmon seeing an ad for Scholl cracked heel sticks)

I’m currently seeing an ad for Dulux Colour Testers, even though I bought the bloody paint last week.

Maybe it’s time to look for another search engine – this is all coming from the company who’s motto is “Don’t be evil”

Personally it doesn’t bother me at all that I am in a niche when I’m doing a TQ/MBO and the ONLY reason that I would like to see more people in the sport is because having a bigger pool of competitors leads through into having more organisers of events – so more events on offer to take part in.

TQ has always been a bit different to many other niches within mountainbiking in that many of the organisers only put on one event a year, for no (or very little) financial gain, but just because they are part of the “club” -so the more people in the club, the more events we get.

I’ve planned 2 MTBO events in the last 3 years, for which I got no payment whatsoever as I did it under the auspices of my orienteering club and they got the profits we made – but I don’t mind as I know there are other enthusiasts out there doing the same for me (and in fact the process is quite fun anyway).

The idea of bringing the sport into the 21st century with the use of GPS is a bit curious. I just don’t see how that would work, or what the point would be – why not bring mountainbiking into the 21st century by using motorbikes?

Seriously though, I don’t see how a GPS would add to the experience, or even be helpful. It’s a bit like those guys in Arab souks using abacuses to do their sums – if you know what you’re doing then they are quicker than calculators. If you can read a map then a GPS is redundant.

Use of the word “quest”. Fix that and you will be fine

They’ve already done that. Officially they are now called MBO Score events (mountain bike orienteering) – it’s just that lots of people still call them Trailquests.

Have a look at the BMBO[/url] website for more info on this whole thing.

I just think you’d all have more fun if you just went out riding.

I invariably have more fun when doing a TQ than when just out riding – but then I’m afflicted by a swollen overcompetitive gland

last time I spoke to one of the local authority rights of way people up there they took the view trailquests are races and they dont do races on bridleways

They are wrong. TQs are specifically NOT races, never advertised as races and are a test of navigation, not of speed. Some organisers go a bit wrong by making the course clearable and then awarding the win to the person who does it in the fastest time. In the original rules the win should be awarded to the person who has the most high value checkpoints, then if still a tie (if I remember right) to the person who started first – so never any question of racing.

CRC Marathons are also not races for the same reason as TQs – which is that races are illegal on bridleways – it’s a crap law though, so whether anyone ever would put it to the test in court is a moot point.

I thought you only got one go at it? You must be an anomaly.

Try not to be too defensive or cynical and you might learn something. I did one a couple of years ago and it has definitely had an impact on my driving. It was much better than I was expecting.

er, yes you do.

I’m not complaining. My wife is very happy in her job (or more accurately VOCATION – I don’t think she would want to do anything else) – I was merely reminding Big Dave that there is always a context to these apparently straightforward issues.

Risk/reward is also a pretty stupid measure as it often seems to be rolled out to justify extremely selfish behaviour. For example, bankers have been quite happy to risk other peoples money when all the rewards accrue to them. Whilst at the same time, where would we be without all of those people who work in “low risk” (financial risk) jobs, like teachers, nurses, soldiers etc, who actually keep society running.

I don’t have the option of going on strike, all I can do is get on with things and look for a better job in the meantime.

Yes you do.

However, you probably don’t have a collective pay deal like teachers do, which means that there may well be similar jobs to yours out there at different rates of pay. If my wife (teacher) moves jobs she will still get the same pay and conditions elsewhere. She’s not in a position where she can hawk herself around for a pay rise.

The bankers didn’t pour the money down a well, they gave it to us, teachers, nurses, doctors, accountants, sales people

No they bloody didn’t. They lent it to speculators with very little thought as to how it would be repaid when various bubbles burst, but not giving a $hit because by the time that happened most of them would have already taken their bonuses and moved on elsewhere.

They TOOK IT from us, teachers, nurses, doctors, accountants and sales people, mainly indirectly, by using the money that those people had accrued in their pension funds, or money that councils had collected and had in the bank waiting to be spent on services.

The aging population is a problem, but one which we have known about for years, but which the people who were in charge of the system have done sod all about – remember all those companies taking “pensions holidays” in the 1990’s because their funds were in surplus? Remember Robert Maxwell? We (including the teachers) have been shafted by 30 years of bad Government, bad governance, poor auditing, corporate greed and rapacious BANKERS.

Cycling as a whole and mountain biking in particular has moved up in terms of class/income and popularity, trailquesting would seem not to have noticed.

You’re making the mistake of lumping all of the competitors together again. TQ/Polaris has had sponsored riders on brand new top of the range XC bikes for 15 years. Not loads, but some.

I ride a full carbon hardtail and my mapboard cost more than a cheap bike from Halfords. I think you’re the one who hasn’t been noticing things. Where did you develop these prejudices?

Incidentally, there’s a really good article about Polaris in the current issue of Privateer.

Yeah, there are a lot of old fogeys there. Also a lot of people who are only out for a laugh. Which is fine, but it’s hardly a race then is it?

Actually the best guys have always been pretty fast, and in fact on the odd occasions where top XC racers have had a go at these sorts of events they have generally been beaten – so although it isn’t just about pure bike speed, winning does require a pretty well honed set of skills.

Also, the thing about TQ is that the top guys are competing in the same event as the have a go crowd. The criticism of it not being much of a competition would be akin to an XC race having everyone from the fun to the elite mixed up together and coming to the conclusion that most of the riders weren’t much good. True enough, but the best TQ/Polaris riders have always been pretty fit and skilled.

BTW, better riders don’t stop to look at the map.

Add in my experiences of meeting trailquesters/Polarisers out and about in a variety of locations – range from grumpy to downright obnoxious.

have we met?

Rubbish riding.

Actually, one of the reasons I like them is that they make riding on less good areas fun. Living in the S of England I don’t have regular access to the sort of terrain where I would want to go for a an epic day ride, but I did a 3 hour Trail Trax event the other day and got a really good work out just S of Basingstoke, and it was fun!

Before I had kids I used to do loads of TQs and Polaris (and MTBO), but Polaris went downhill in the early 2000s. TQ used to be fantastic when I went round the country doing them and discovered The Lakes, The Dales, Wales and Scotland by bike. But now that I’ve ridden most places, they don’t have quite the same appeal – and I’m also less keen on driving for miles to get to events (so I now have fun discovering smaller areas in more detail by orienteering).

what constitutes living? Whiling away my days in bucolic bliss pottering about the village and growing veg doesn’t do it for me, which is a shame…

But at some point it probably will. I just like to think I’m ahead of the curve and by the time I really am an old fogey I’ll be really good at it.

Funny thing is, my parents are now pretty elderly and for about the last 5 years they’ve been trying to get rid of all the stuff they spent the rest of their lives acquiring!

Yes,

I used to work in an office but cut down to 4 days a week, then 3.5, then 3 as I was doing up an old house – didn’t work any less hard, but had control of my own time, which was the important thing for me. Then when we had kids I became a house husband, started doing up another house and started my event photo business. I also work an allotment for a fair bit of our food and cook from scratch every day and I’m involved with a local environmental group and my kids school doing things that have a +ve impact on my community (unlike many people who are too busy chasing the $). Again, still working hard, but it feels like I do it when I want to and also receive all the benefit. I’m sure I would be making lots more money if I still worked a conventional job, but we’ve got enough so who cares?

RJ, I think you have an extremely limited imagination if you think that the only options are “in” or “out”, but if you want to spend your life commuting, acquiring stuff, working to other people’s schedules and living in debt then that’s your look out – but if you think it is the only option for the averagely wealthy, you’re wrong.

London and Country are very good. Costs you nothing and they scour the market for you to get the best deal. I’ve done 3 mortgages through them and couldn’t be happier.