I'm gonna get a full sus 4X bike just for the pose. One of those expensive ones like a Yeti or an Intense should do it.

(This is a p!ss take and I am actually properly considering getting one, but 2nd hand just in case this 4X thing is crap :wink: ).

They are excellent bikes and no way a poor mans version of anything. Orange only gave the 5 similar geometry for 2009 while the Prophet has been ahead of the game in that respect. Its geo seemed long, low and slack just a couple of years ago and now seems to have become the norm for great trailbikes that can descend brilliantly.

Dirt loved the ST4 when they tested it. But then they do love the 5 too…

Max headset – what a pile of horse crap. People can ride what they like where they like if it suits what they're doing. You're just way too into this all marketing is evil rubbish, but all marketers do usually is follow the trends, not set them. A couple of the blokes at Dirt Mag use 4X bikes as their trail bikes – are you gonna tell them they're not allowed to do that cos they should be for "pumping and styling around a formed course"?

Yes. We're talking about the ones with a wee bit of rear suspension.

Quantocks on Sunday with Sharki and some other Mlehworld people.

But big forks is not the point. 100mm or 120mm is the idea – light, pointy and easy to pick up and place rather than bash into stuff.

Pegglet – if you sell the Ndiza let me know, mmm'K?

does it have to have a 4X in the name? What qualifies a 4X bike?

Low standover, 4 inch travel(ish), progressive/firm suspension, slacker than an XC bike, ISCG mounts – that kind of thing. Some Slopestyle bikes would count I s'pose.

Cheers. I forgot the Banshee Rampant too.

I think it's also a development of how people ride. Classic XC in the hills isn't for everyone so the woods razzers and trail centre hackers like a bike that's nimble, a bit of cush but not too much to take away the fun, but doesn't have the geometry of a small XC bike. My riding these days is much more "squeeze in 2 hours in the local woods" which is more like sessioning in a way, you know, looping round to take in a few DH sections so a 4X bike could be just the ticket.

I'm getting excited about the mag reviews…

If you have the time, have a look at doing the Black Mountains Killer Loop. Downloadable from mbwales.com

I found a similar thing with my Chammy. The whole bike felt really tall, not just at the front, but it felt as though I was sat on it, not in it. I think that was more to do with the 13 inch BB height which is just way too high for a hardtail for me. I also bought a large and should have bought a medium, but I don't think it would have made any difference to the tall feeling. I now have a Genesis Alpitude and that feels great.

As for your 2 choices, the STP will climb better with a lot of seatpost as the seat angle is steeper and won't put your bum over the back wheel so much. Dirt mag really liked the Blender for razzing about the woods with not so much emphasis on the climbing. Do you have the wheelbase and BB height measurements?

I've heard that if you wind the rebound adjuster fully off (or is it fully on?) then it makes it easier.

The Hope SS hub is this one –
http://www.hopegb.com/voir_rhpr32btr.html
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=11034

They include it for trials as the cassette area is much shorter than normal so you can have just a 4 speed cassette or whatever.

I'll be 32 and 11 – 34, but then I'm a bit of a nonce up hills and rarely pedal on the downhills. It's all about the pump. :wink:

Way to go Genks! Is The Peter gonna be sold? Wait till Al finds out – he'll rip the p!ss.

I know people that ride them as their trail bikes with a slammed down seat, but then they do all (and I mean all) their climbing out of the saddle. I don't know how they do it, but they prove it can be done. They're ace fun for the good bits, so it's just down to how far you can compromise.

My old Banshee/Mythic Scirocco that I sold to shrickvr6

My old Chameleon. Should have bought a medium…

Current one. Genesis Alpitude, 853 steel and brilliant. Now with Pikes and a front mech.

Didn't they use an oval downtube on the later ones? Pre-oval were for 100mm, oval were for 130mm or so.

I go to barbecues with David Rand (ex British road champion) and his family
I see the blokes from Dirt mag in the sandwich van queue

Should do. I have RF rings on my XT cranks.

The Bike Chain in Edinburgh hang out on here and do The Peter.

I had a similar problem and it turned out that the rear cassette needed a wee nip tighter. Problem solved.

Is Heckler and Audi the new Cannondale and BMW? :D

cynic-al – I meant the new Heckler, so yours is OK.

soobalias – loving the Nicolai lovers description. Shall I tell our little emo friend?

Yeti 575 – seriously uncool
Yeti DJ – cool

Any Curtis – sub-zero
Any old skool BMX except Raleigh Burner series – cool
Specialized S-Works – uncool
Specialized Pitch – can't make my mind up on that. Is it the Mondeo of bikes – brilliant at what it does for great value and therefore cool, or is it uncool for being so common?

I'd say Ragley Ti is cool for now, but I reckon it'll slip down to uncool pretty quickly.

B or V. But, do you really want to spend that much when you can get a tensioner that works for a tenner?

Looks legit to me wth that downtube and the headtube junction. Nice buy.

were they particularly high?

IIRC their trail bikes were hovering around the 14 inch mark when most others were between 13 and 13.5.

Have they lowered their silly high bottom bracket heights too?

What was the name of the Northern company who were put out a Five-style single pivot a few years back? It was something like Blade or Sabre IIRC.

They were called Edge Bikes from Sheffield and made VPP style bikes from DH through to a 4X version. They didn't last long for some reason and are now no more.

The STW peeps seem to like the Minutes. I'd forgotten that Revs still use the old Pike lowers.

RS Revs
Marzocchi 44 (but get the 2010)
Magura Thor
Manitou Minute

All air, all 140mm, all with 20 or 15mm axles, all post mount (I think). Is that what you meant?

Set it to around 30% sag for trail riding, so wound out to 130mm travel, sit on the bike normally and measure how much travel your body weight takes up. For 30% you're looking at about 39mm – add more air if it's in the 40's or take air out if it's in the low 30's. Next set the rebound so that as you bounce the suspension (stood next to bike) you can just get the wheel off the floor before it rebounds all the way back. Play either side of here for your preferences, but on a hardtail I prefer it slightly slower than most people. For compression go as fast as you can without causing too much problems with brake dive. Slower compression means you'll get less brake dive, but less bump absorbtion and grip as the wheel won't follow the ground quite so well. So start at the fast end and come in a click or two depending on how it feels on the trails you ride. Steep, steppy trails are good for the slow compression so the forks doesn't dive and have you over the bars, but for most UK stuff you're better off with it at the faster end of adjustment.

I'm interested in 'zocchi for 2010. Look good (again).

Cotic Hemlock

Whoa! Yes, there's always going to be loads of slack from small to small and you shouldn't really be crossing right over like that as it stresses the chain sideways more than is nice for it. Sounds like it's prolly fine.

Hmm, if that's in the +ve side that sounds a bit much. What forks are they?