Ok, on the video rebel12 posted, what’s the (what looks like) puff of smoke from the tyres at about 46 seconds in. Looks like the wheels locked (which would be silly during take off.)

(Edit) Or is the brakes going on to help rotate?
(Edit again) but that wouldn’t help.

Not sure but looks like its just run through a patch of dust, water or similar on the runway, or on a taxiway crossing the runway.

But doesn’t that conspiracy theory also require it to take off again ?

Not a 777 but similar performance – click on ‘show more’ tab below video for info

It’d need a pretty long runway to land – not something you can build in secret and keep hidden.

I believe that with the right conditions, low speed approach, maximum braking and reverse thrust applied (and depending on how much weight the aircraft is carrying) that a 777 can come to a full stop from the point of touchdown in somewhere between 600m and 900m. That’s not a very long runway.

Or maybe it was hijacked and flown until it ran out of fuel and crashed

Unlikely – no wreckage spotted anywhere and we’re a week in? If it was a catastrophic failure in flight then the wreckage should be somewhere near the last known position.

Don’t see why the hijackers would run out of fuel and crash – these people clearly knew what they were doing and if they were going to crash then they would have had a specific objective in mind surely? It seems unlikely the hijackers would have crashed it into a completely remote area – I mean what would be the point if there’s no one there to see?

If it had crashed in a random location for whatever reason then there’s a good chance that some debris or other evidence would have been found by now. I’d have thought here’s not many places in the world that are so remote, including the open sea, that an aircraft of this size could crash and go completely un-noticed for a whole week.

Not sure I believe the conspiracy theory that it’s landed somewhere

Why not, a week in and there’s zero evidence that the aircraft has crashed?

North Korea would be about 4 hours away?

Interesting idea..off course then shot down by NK. I bet they have good surface to air missiles?

Unless N. Korea are involved and had the plane safely tucked up under cover of a large hanger before daylight arrived? It’s one of very few countries who could easily keep such a thing secret in this day and age. Also from the aircrafts last known position, it could have made its way to N.Korea entirely over the sea outside of any land based radar coverage.

It has seemed fairly clear in my mind after no wreckage was found after a couple of days searching, and the strange way in which the aircraft lost contact that the only possible option was a hijacking. Lack of wreckage or any form of crash site or crash witnesses would suggest that there’s a good chance that the aircraft is still in one piece somewhere and that this may have a lot longer to play out than we think.

North Korea would be about 4 hours away?

The last three words of your post sum up TG rather nicely.

Did you miss the bit about ditching the ‘Star in a car’ bit?

Can’t see what’s people’s beef with Top a Gear to be honest. Yes it’s scripted, childish, puerile and pure entertainment as much as much as a car show but it’s been said a million times before that if you don’t like it don’t watch. I generally like the show, although they could do with ditching the ‘star in a car’ section. Still far better than the trashy mindless TV that is Celebrity this or that, X Factor etc, Jungle get me out of here, Dancing on Ice etc etc.

Also as a result of watching Top Gear when growing up my nephew took a strong interest in cars and car design. He’s currently doing A-Levels and applying to University to become an Automotive Design Engineer. Far better than all those kids with distorted expectations wanting to be singers or celebrities after watching all this Celebrity driven bullsh*t.

Tommy Sheridan – haha, hasn’t he been in and out of prison a couple of times, and didn’t he appear on Celebrity Big Brother (kind of like prison and a surefire way of loosing all self respect in my book)?

Again not getting your point as it is nothing like that it is like me saying I have agreed to sell my house, if enough folk vote for this, but i wont negotiate a price till after they vote

Isn’t that how houses normally sell, i.e. you decide to move – then once you’ve made the decision to move, you put your house up for sale and negotiate a price and terms with the vendor?

The vote for independence is simple – the question is: Should Scotland be an independent country?

It is not Should Scotland keep the pound, should Scotland keep the oil, or should Scotland remain in the EU etc.

To compare with the housing analogy, what Alex Salmond seems to be doing, and people on here is arguing about who should keep the carpets, do fixtures and fittings come with the sale, can the previous owner still park on the new owners driveway, will the new owners be invited round for coffee mornings with the neighbours etc. before the decision whether to move house or not has been taken in the first place by the vendors.

Crazy!

Someone else who seems to agree that iS is workable BUT that the ballance sheet might not be as rosey (certainly in the short term) as being portrayed by AS.

And that’s the whole point – no one doubts that Scotland could make it (eventually) but AS and mob are being hugely deceitful by painting independence as some sort of rosy utopia, when in reality it will be a hard fought battle that will destroy the stability and current financial credibility of Scotland for a good few years, and throw up just as many new problems as those solved by going independent in the first place.

We’ve got fantastic prospects for wind, wave and tidal energy once the oil runs out.

True, but where will the colossal levels of funding come from to develop those resources and infrastructure?

With Standard Life being the first of I suspect many large companies that will up sticks for the UK if a YES vote happens, then there will be even less money in an independent Scotland than we thought before.

These companies will have to move and I don’t blame them – the directors of these companies are obliged to act in the best interests of the business and it’s shareholders. To protect the business they need to operate in a proven country with a safe and stable currency, and in a country that’s part of the EU (all of which Scotland cannot give them).

Thinking about it, Scottish independence could be a perfect way to regenerate the less affluent parts of the NE of England. Large firms relocating there from Edinburgh and Glasgow would still be close enough to the border to retain some of their Scottish workforce whilst retaining all of the benefits of remaining in the UK.

I wonder what Alex Salmond will make of the Standard Life announcement? Will he try to pull the rug over the Scottish electorates eyes again and dismiss it as simply more bluff, bullying and threats? Or will he actually wake up and smell the coffee, and deal with the increasing unfavorable home truths that are now staring him square in the face?

Not getting why so many are so one sided here in their explanation of reality/the situation nor do I know what AS has done to piss of so many , mainly english, folk

Errrr I’m Welsh actually.

I suspect he pisses off the people who are open minded on the independence issue or have sufficient intelligence to see that he (and his white paper) is completely full of BS, and that he’d probably sell his own granny into slavery if it would make him PM of Scotland.

Yes you could say that about many politicians but AS seems to have taken BS (and the Bluff, Bluster and Bullying he forever accuses others of) to a completely new and frankly unprofessional level. The man’s a complete joke and Scotland deserve far better.

Why wont the David Cameron debate with Scotland over independence?

Because the rest of the UK does not get a vote – that’s why. This is a matter for the Scottish people to decide that’s all.

Okay we enjoy a good debate on here, and yes the referendum result will affect us all to some degree, but do the people of Scotland really want the rest of the UK sticking their noses into an affair which is purely Scotland’s to vote on?

Debating with someone as slippery and unstable as Alex Salmond just seems to add fuel to the fire of the SNP Campaign, as can be seen when all the toys got thrown out of the pram and the drums started beating louder when the UK Government announce that Currency Union was not in the best interests of the rest of the UK and would not be happening.

We don’t give you information – you critisise and snipe about a lack of information. We do give you information and you accuse us of Bluff, Bluster and Bullying.

Honestly it’s no wonder Cameron wants to stay out of it for now until the result of the vote is known.

Right now the UK is like a bunch of passengers and 1 driver in a car. The EU is setting the rules of the road, the speed limit, what side we drive on etc. But its the driver (the South East and London) that is deciding where the car goes.

Scotland is fed up being driven around and wants its own car.

but the point is that the existing state the UK has not requested the advice from the commission. Why not?

Because it’s the job of the YES campaign pushing for independence to ask the question, not for the UK to ask the question on the YES campaign’s behalf.

Same if an employee leaves a company that’s ISO 9001 approved to go self employed in competition with the employer – is it the job of the company to check whether the employee will still retain his ISO 9001 certification for his new business?

Anyway why should the question need to be asked? – the rules on EU membership are quite clear that Scotland would not be given automatic membership.

The worrying thing for Scotland is that the rest of the UK will still retain it’s EU membership and as a result will have a say as to whether an independent Scotland can actually join. Scotland, outside of the EU will have very little say in the matter.

The silence is deafening. It seems that markets deserve clarity from the UK government but not us voters.

What silence? The UK and European Commission have recently made the situation quite clear to the people of Scotland about both EU membership and the Currency Union. What part of this don’t you understand?

England is not the UK.

It will be England and Scotland, the parties to the Union separating, not the UK and Scotland.

You seem to have completely forgotten about Wales and Northern Ireland? The rest of the UK (Englend/Wales/NI) will continue as before, as the UK with full EU/NATO membership. This has been confirmed 100% already.

Scotland will not get EU/NATO/UN membership easily or automatically. This has also be confirmed 100% already (despite the fact that Alex Salmond wants to pull the wool over the voters eyes by making them think that all the people who actually make the decisions/rules and who currently disagree with him are wrong, liars or big bad bullies). Simples 😛

Pepipoo is littered with forum posts about people that ignored the letters. The next thing they know they’re getting court papers.

Even if genuine – they’re a self-selecting sample.

The chances of being taken to court are very, very small.

Exactly, so small as to be virtually nil. Oh and on the small chance they do actually take you to court, providing you know what you’re doing then the PPC’s chance of winning is also virtually nil.

BoardinBob – Member

I’m sorry but not one of those links refers to an actual court case where someone has actually been taken to court and the PPC has won. Receiving court papers or a solicitors threat of court action in not the same thing as actually being taken to court – it’s merely the last threat the PC can use in the hope to scare you into paying up, nothing more, nothing less

I ignored this…I have been ordered to pay over £260 including costs as I did not reply to the claim form

I just told my dad to ignore their scary letters…Bailiff showed up…out of pocket almost £3000 (with bailiff and court charges)

I did a bit of googling and read a few threads which advised to ignore this…I have been ordered to pay over £260 including costs as I did not reply to the claim form

I’m sorry but that first and second link sound very fishy. Like I said it’s well known on Pepipoo that there have been PPC’s posting as forum users trying to say how they have been shafted by the court after ignoring letters from a PPC. Seems like a pure scare tactic to me.

The last link is in a council car park. You can’t ignore stuff from the council, you’ll either have to appeal or pay up. Private stuff is completely different.

Do you have any genuine links to real cases you can post as I’d be interested to hear.

Receiving court papers IS being taken to court.

No it’s not, going to court is being taken to court. Receiving court papers is just a necessary step before this can happen – it doesn’t mean you’re actually going to court.

BoardinBob – Member

but I assume you have plenty of proof?

I have ignored them, now I have received County Court Papers

I ignored all correspondence

I ignored the letters they sent

etc etc

I’m sorry but not one of those links refers to an actual court case where someone has actually been taken to court and the PPC has won. Receiving court papers or a solicitors threat of court action in not the same thing as actually being taken to court – it’s merely the last threat the PC can use in the hope to scare you into paying up, nothing more, nothing less.

Pepipoo is littered with forum posts about people that ignored the letters. The next thing they know they’re getting court papers. Some are ignoring those and getting default judgements against them. Some are turning up in court with pisspoor defences and the parking companies are winning in court.

The advice for England and Wales is definitely do not ignore anymore. Parking Eye take ignorers to court without fail. They rely on both the ignorance of the RK or driver, and also in some cases the courts.

Really? I doubt very much. It is even rumoured that PPC’s have been posting on Pepipoo posing as punters being taken to court to try and scare the public even further that the rumours about court are true. Can’t be bothered to trawl through the forums but I assume you have plenty of proof?

+1 on you cant ignore now.

Wrong, of course you can ignore their letter, the same as you can legally ignore an one else’s letter that arrives through your letterbox. Despite the recent small change in the law meaning that the PPC’s can pursue the registered keeper, a private parking charge is just as unenforceable as before. See this link for what to do and how unlikely the PPC are to win even if you’re one of the TINY handfull of cases annually that actually go to court, but I’d save yourself the bother and just ignore.

Private Parking Ticket – What to Do.

Honestly I don’t know why people worry about stuff like this. Why not just tell them to get on with it and let it go to court? The likeleyhood is minute that it will get this far – it’s just not worth their time and money to pursue cases to court. Plus they can only claim in court for actual loss suffered by the landowner plus an amount towards fee/expenses if they can prove these are reasonable and they win. Highly unlikely, but save yourself the bother – just tell them to put up or shut up.

winston_dog – Member

I call BS on that…

I will rephrase it then.

After living in Scotland for 6 years and also working offshore and around Aberdeen for about 15 years, I have lost count to the number of Scots who referred to the oil fields as “theirs” and that they wanted independence to keep the revenues in Scotland and not to feed the Southern English Bastards.

Is that better?

North Sea Oil currently makes up just 1.5% of UK tax revenue – hardly a great loss to the rest of the UK. And anyway with 4/5ths already gone it’s a dying resource and even accounting for an estimation of potential new discoveries and a further rise in the oil price making some marginal fields more viable, the oil will still be completely gone within 20-40 years (depending on who’s estimates proves to be most accurate). Not really a successful long term formula for independence now is it?

bencooper – Member

QT is broadcast from all over the UK, that’s half the point.

But produced by BBC Scotland.

Which is owned by BBC UK!

The BBC buys programmes from around the world, and sells the programmes it makes around the world. The SBC will do the same buy programmes from around the world.

Fixed that for you 🙂

Mostly I would say a desire to try to create a fairer country as the westminster system is broken.

According to the World Democracy index the UK seems right up there with the best.

Democracy Index

I can guarantee you that if Scotland do go independent then within a few years the Scots furthest from Edinburgh will be whinging that the Edinburgh system is broken – “they just don’t care what happens to us up here in the Highlands”. The grass isn’t always greener you know.

I had a penalty charge mailed from Parking Eye this summer after overstaying my time in Watergate Bay carpark, Cornwall (hard to estimate time when you’re having so much fun surfing).

Ignored the threatening letters and then after about the third letter I decided to phone them up. I basically told them I’d be happy to pay for what they’ve lost in parking revenue (about £2) but that was it, and they wouldn’t be getting a penny more.

I gave them three clear choices:

1. Either send me an invoice for the £2 of lost revenue which I’d be happy to pay.

2. Keep wasting their own time and money by continuing to send threatening letters, which I would continue to ignore before filing in the waste bin.

3. Or they could just get on with it, make good on their threats and take me to court.

They did none of those things and after the phone call the letters simply stopped coming. 😀

Don’t forget that these companies make money from the vulnerable, the scared, and those that don’t understand contract law. Fight your corner and they’ll soon move on to much easier prey.

Thought James Blunt came across as a right annoying little sh*t! Had to press MUTE on the remote temporarily.

Or perhaps, even that is better than what we currently have.

What, being part of a stable and successful Union with a worldwide influence, yet still having a reasonable level of autonomy but with zero risk attached?

Ah well, let’s just accuse anyone who dares to point out the facts as being great big bullies.
Except they’re not really facts, they’re political negotiating positions. There aren’t really any facts in any of this.

This seems to have already discussed at length and I think the general consensus is that these are facts, as opposed to what’s contained in the White Paper which would be a work of pure fiction that even the Brothers Grimm would have been proud of!

The problem the no campaign have is convincing Scottish voters that an imperfect system where money is sometimes mis-spent, and bad decisions are made, is a better option than utopia. This can seem like an uphill task.

Exactly this + 1. Far easier and seems much more exciting for the YES campaign to promise a shiny new Scotland, than for the NO’s to say stick with it as it’ll be better for all of us. Except the problem is that the YES campaigns promise of Utopia is now thoroughly starting to unravel. Ah well, let’s just accuse anyone who dares to point out the facts as being great big bullies.

So the Scots are meant to take a risk with this (fair weather) chancer?

First and foremost he cares for himself. If he really cared for Scotland he wouldnt talk such BS.

THM, couldn’t agree more – the man’s as slippery as an eel dipped in olive oil. Far far worse even than what you’d typically expect from the average politician! You get the feeling he’d say anything to achieve his ambition of being president of Scotland.

Chew
No ones saying that Scotland couldn’t be very successful being independent.

Actually I’m saying that. It would be too small a country.

I don’t agree, despite my previous posts I do think that Scotland could make it as an independent country . . . . . . eventually.

The reality I think for anyone tempted to vote YES though is not to expect a smooth transition, and certainly don’t believe what the SNP would like you to believe in their White Paper.

Scotland’s independence will cause huge internal turmoil, a potential large temporary loss of GDP, taking on a staggering amount of debt to restructure, a Scottish internal power struggle, a huge amount of uncertainty, potential loss of external investment and confidence, plenty of currency and financial problems etc, etc.

To add that historically, uncertainty and turmoil in any country/economy normally has the knock on effect of the rich getting richer, and the weak getting trampled on.

This will all be resolved though with enough time. But it’s not going to be all rosy in a year or two – it will take at least a generation for things to settle down, a generation before the country is truly stable.

So does the Scottish population have the stomach to sacrifice the comfort and stability in their own lives, to put their own lives on hold for future generations and the greater long term cause?

In what way did the rest of the UK contribute to the oil reserves? They’re just there – no rUK taxpayer put any money into creating them.

So revenue from North Sea oil makes up just 1.5% of UK tax revenue? Might as well just throw the Scots a bone and give it all to them if it will stop the whinging. 4/5ths are already gone and it’s not going to last that much longer anyway and will become less and less important as time progresses. We’re at the start of a huge global shift away from fossil fuels and the UK is already investing heavily in Nuclear power as we speak.

We know the content of your character as well as the content of your brains

Haha Junkyard that’s a classic! You keep nit picking if that’s what you like to do 😆

Nicola didn’t come out of that very well did she? So there’s no Plan B it would seem. With politicians like her on the side of the YES campaign it’s no wonder Osbourne and Co won’t debate the issues until they really have to – otherwise they’d be debating from now until the next millennium without her ever answering a straight question.

I predict that should Scotland get independence the Scots will be far more hacked off with a Scottish Government than they ever were with Westminster

For sure, but at least they will have voted them in. So Turkeys do vote for Xmas after all 😆

To repeat

Good old Scottish ‘They’re all out to get us!’ at it’s finest there with that post [ straw man, ad hom ]
I think you’re totally wrong

Your next reply should be entertaining

And your point is Junkyard? Please feel free to baffle us with some more clever linguistical abreviations that we’ll all have to Google.

My point was that there’s a lot of Scots posting on here who seem bitter and resentful about the union, probably because they themselves are not personally in a good place at the moment. They seem to want to blame the English, the Union, the Con/Dems, infact anyone but themselves for their own situation.

I’m not talking about the majority of Scots here, just a few vocal voices who through the style of their posts seem to think that there’s a big conspiracy out there against Scotland.

Nothing could be further from the truth of course, but often people believe what they wish to believe and no doubt this will still influence their opinion come referendum time.

Now… who deliberately removed the option to vote for WHAT PEOPLE ACTUALLY WANT, ie more devolution? The UK government. Depressing games.

Good old Scottish ‘They’re all out to get us!’ at it’s finest there with that post 😆

I think you’re totally wrong. I think the reason that DEVO Max wasn’t offered is that the UK Government wanted this independence thing cleared up once and for all before moving forward.

Otherwise we’d agree to DEVO Max, and Salmond/SNP would still keep causing trouble by relentlessly banging on about about full Scottish independence and as a result, despite DEVO Max being in place, we’d remain in the current land of limbo ‘will they/won’t they’ for the next few decades.

That’s not good for anyone, especially not for Scotland.

Hopefully the people of Scotland will vote NO for this badly through through scheme, which, once it’s done and dusted will open the doors for further discussion of the more sensible option – greater self control and further devolution, which the rest of the UK would be no doubt be happy to support you achieving.

Let’s hope so. And that’s the resolution that the UK Parliamentary parties should be offering, and pushing for, rather than the patronising “we’ll screw you if you leave” tone of talk of “ruling out a currency union”.

Yes but until the elephant in the room that is ‘Full Independence’ has been ruled out then further devolution negotiations would never have been truly successful (as there would still have been too many trouble making people pushing for independence and too many unresolved independence issues getting in the way).

This is why the vote for full independence (as opposed to greater devolution) had to happen first, to rule out independence for the foreseeable future, so that then, the Scots can move forward towards proper, positive and focused talks around more self control, greater powers of devolution and increased Scottish self governance.