Newly opened at Media City is Kargo MKT with 20 street food traders under one roof.

https://kargomkt.com/food-drink

I’ve just tried to like/upvote a couple of recent comments but the icon is greyed out and displays the tooltip ‘you cannot rate topics’. Is this functionality only available to paying members?

@tomhoward
Venues often ask what a booking is for. If it’s mentioned in any way that the event is for women the next question will be ‘it is inclusive?’.

And because I know how this is going to go, lots of people are going to think you mean a women’s shelter rather than a Rape support service. You are probably not going to correct this misconception so I’m doing it now.

I don’t see how I could have been any clearer. The woman is trying to set up a ‘support group’, where woman who have been raped can meet up in a supportive and safe environment to talk about their trauma. So far, her attempts a book rooms (at a variety of venues) have been rejected because the group is for females only.

@BruceWee Just to be clear, do you think female women should be able to meet without male women (because you believe Trans Women are Women)?

I ask this as this whilst the thread ‘was’ about sports you, and others, have made it into a wider discussion, using ever increasing emotive language, culminating in you latest post where you use the phrase ‘snuff out’.

In Brighton and Hove, there are no single sex rape support services. A women has raised a legal challenge to try to secure one single sex support group. Along with numerous death threats she was told to ‘f*ck off and make your own group’. So, she did just that. TRAs have emailed every venue in Brighton & Hove warning them not to allow the group to meet, and the (male) venue managers are now saying they cannot use their facilities unless they include males in the group. This is happening right now.

In the grand scheme, and yes, there may be a dozen or more women who’ve been impacted by that, but do 12 women being impacted in a way that is frankly in the grand scheme of things minor (even if not to them) outweigh the major benefits to one TG athlete’s quality of life.

Wow, you’re really nailing your colours to the mast there.

Some are asserting their boundaries others are definitely not and for any other protected human characteristic they would be charged and prosecuted for their hateful language/actions.

Are you perhaps referring to the 9 protected characteristics in the UK’s Equality Act? Sex is one of those characteristics, ‘gender’ is not (gender reassignment is) yet organisations everywhere are swapping sex for gender in their policies. My sex is a protected characteristic, so is my sexual orientation. You cannot discuss the issues without using clear language. Trans women should be excluded from women’s sports because they are male. It is not hate to state that.

The attempts to confuse language are deliberate.

I’m not here for a debate. In my books it’s not a debate, it’s a side show. Thank you Hannah for voicing your support.

What I will say is that trans elite athletes are a tiny percentage of a small percentage of the population. However, EVERY trans/non-binary person I know has seen a huge increase in the amount of hate and intolerance since this has become “news”. So, just think before you speak/type please and thank you.

Most of the ‘hate’ you mention is just women asserting their boundaries. The ‘news’ is increasing awareness of the extent to which these boundaries are being trampled. Just a couple of weeks an established lesbian speed dating event was shut down due to complaints by trans rights activists. The complainants also reported the organiser to her employer in an attempt to rob her of her livelihood.

You have an LBGT category.

What the hell would be the purpose of an ‘LGBT Category’ for sport? I am women and a lesbian. When I play competitive sports my sex (female) is important, my sexuality is irrelevant.

jim-the-saint

rainper – In mountain biking Junior is a category for racers who are 17 to 18 years old. The best riders in this category will be heavily sponsored and remunerated for their efforts and tested for rule adherence.
I now get the point you were making though. We can all make grammatical errors 😉

I can understand people getting upset if rules are broken but at a grass-roots level they can’t afford to test them.

thanks for explaining that.

I hope this article will be read with an option mind. I know some will try to discredit the organisation Fair Play for Women.

This article details a few examples where ‘inclusion’ has lead to exclusion of women in their own groups. This is just one example:
“At a street stall in Ayr, a mother of a 13-year-old girl told me her daughter had lost her place as a goalkeeper on a girls’ football team to a boy. That wee girl is now sitting at home wondering why adults are telling her to deny the reality of what she can see – a boy has taken her place in the team.”
https://fairplayforwomen.com/transgender-inclusion-is-already-harming-uk-females-in-sport/

I think it’s a bit disingenuous of you though to link junior and grass roots sport together.

I wasn’t being disingenuous. Is junior not an appropriate term to cover both, girl’s school sports and Saturday morning girl’s football?
I only mentioned self id as your said you knew very little about this subject.

jim-the-saint
Whilst framed as an ‘LGBT rights’ issue this has nothing to do with anyone’s sexuality, and is something that many ‘LGB’ people (i.e. homosexuals and bisexuals) are getting rightly pissed off about.
And no sport is segregated by gender*, they are segregated by sex. You’ve said you’re ‘new to this’ and have learnt a lot about transgender participation in sports from this thread, so I wonder if you are aware that at junior/grass-roots levels transgirls/transwomens participation in girls/womens sports is often by self-id alone, i.e. no puberty blocking drugs or cross sex hormones?

*This whole argument is about segregating by gender instead of sex

This website compares the performance of high school boys vs female Olympians. In many of the events the women’s time aren’t even enough to qualify for the boy’s events.
https://boysvswomen.com/#/

It’s worth remembering that the invasion of women’s privacy isn’t limited to women’s only spaces. Up-skirting occurs in public spaces. Men will sit down next to women on buses and start watching violent pornography on their phones

And I’m glad you recognise this. Sadly, is it still largely ignored/trivialised; statistically, some members on here WILL have friends who think this is a laugh. Similar also happens in gym, with men covertly filming women.

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jun/06/stonewall-risks-all-it-has-fought-for-in-accusing-those-who-disagree-with-it-of-hate-speech

If you all want claim that porn-addled men are part of the ‘LGBT community’ than go for it. There are many, many ordinary people (gays, lesbians, bisexuals, transsexuals/transgender) that are trying to distance themselves.

As Bruce says above if it were a major problem there would be countless media hits when googling, this is the type of subject that local papers here (UK) would get in a froth about on lots of different levels.

I’m just wondering how much of a problem it has to be before you think it’s worth worrying about.

Bruce posted a link to an incident (assault?) of a gender non-conforming women in a women’s toilets. Was this indicative of a real problem (and one caused by the mean women no less)? Strange this doesn’t go both ways. It’s always:
that never happens
[examples provided]
it’s only a few cases
[more examples provided]
well, the women can then report it to the authorities

Women have long accepted transsexuals (a term many are happy to use so don’t going banging on about that this term being ‘transphobic’) in a our spaces.

What we are not happy about is the ‘anyone who identifies as a women’, of whom a sizable number appear to be heterosexual men with a fetish – look up sissy porn if you fancy reaching for the eye-bleach after. If a male can tweet at women (including high profile women such as JK Rowling) words such ‘choke on my girl cock’ I would think anyone here could understand that these are not vulnerable people suffering from crippling gender dysphoria.

If LGBT rights (and I’m including T here) are at risk, it’s because they’ve allowed these men to hitch a ride on the wagon.

Stonewall and their ‘no debate’ mantra have lead to the current state of affairs in the UK. The LGB Alliance only came about because attempts at opening up dialog failed. Interestingly, one of their new trustees is Robert Wintemute.
Robert Wintermute;
Professor of Human Rights Law at King’s College London, lawyer or expert in successful LGB court cases in Europe and Latin America, signatory of the 2007 Yogyakarta Principles (now critical of Principles 3 and 31)

However, what I don’t see is how you get from being annoyed to trying to say, ‘man in in dress masturbating while children watch’ and ‘transgender’ in the same sentence as many times as possible.

I know you replying to someone else, but you attempted, again, to, misrepresent what I said, again.
I don’t believe these men (in dresses and womens underwear) **** in public areas are transwomen. I believe they are men with fetishes (like old men dressed a female adult babies that the BBC photographed at it’s Pride coverage a few years ago). These videos have been uploaded to porn sites, precisely because the are a violation of women’s spaces.

The problem, that you repeatedly deny exists, is that that is a conflict of rights. The only reason that these men were able to do this is because of people like you and the agenda you are pushing, i.e. that it’s complicated or women’s feelings/safety matter least.

If there was anywhere to find a catalog of cases where men were invading women’s only spaces it would be here. I couldn’t find anything.

How about a twitter thread full of videos ‘women’ in dresses getting their cocks out and masturbating in public areas (e.g. in front of the full length mirrors that women use to check their outfits) whilst children’s voices can be heard in the background.

Or ‘women’ on twitter/reddit uploading images and words describing getting a thrill out of trying on women’s underwear in shop changing rooms, ejaculating on the the clothing and returning them to the racks.

I was not going to share this (as it is so utterly repugnant) but you keep slurring UK feminists as right wing bigots and loudly proclaiming that any concerns are hypothetical.

And, as you’re pulling in stories from the USA, don’t you think there might just be a very real conflict of rights where significant numbers of males (including rapists and murderers) who self identify as women are being transferred into women’s prisons. Or is this just progress, with women as collateral damage?

Are you next going to quote Nancy Kelley (Stonewall) comparing people who believe that sex is real (and it matters) with anti-semitism.

There are a lot of people making absolute statements when it comes to this issue and I think if people are going to make such strong statements it’s important to understand where they are coming from.

I can tell you that to the women who’ve read your posts, you come across as someone who does not respect the rights of women to have boundaries, especially when you keep shouting ‘biological sex is complicated’ and demanding definitions.

Even if you believe that being transgender is not a real thing you are still going to have do decide whether or not you are going to exclude intersex people.

You really like putting word’s in people’s mouths don’t you. I have never said anything of the sort about transgender people and, as for intersex, when you were pulled up over this you arrogantly and loudly shouted down the poster. If you look, you will find plenty of people whom you would call ‘intersex’, who consider that term offensive.

As for the AI thing on the Giggle app, perhaps if men didn’t force there way into spaces where they are not wanted it wouldn’t be necessary.

You’re coming across as a bully. I hope people can see that.

It’s normally pretty easy to recognise an “international taking the piss day” and ignore it.

Is this is response to anything shared on this thread?

I apologise to anyone offended by the language used in my previous post, but this is the day to day reality of a legion of women. I can understand that some people are not aware it this is happening, but others (who are fully aware) dismiss it a ‘banter’ or imply ‘she was asking for it’. Police forces have implied the latter when women have reported the abuse they are receiving, often from people with rainbows or pink and blue flags in their twitter bios.

Rainper, why not create one? Starting with a dating website first if you need, then growing into a full app when you gain knowledge and clients etc?

If none exist, doesn’t mean you can’t do it, could also be a financial winner too

weeksy, there were apps (such as dating app called ‘Her’) and other online groups, but they are now ‘inclusive’ and (another term that I hate) ‘queer’. Women who object to this are kicked out of these spaces, and anyone trying to set up ‘women-only’ groups are accused of bigotry.

Did you see my earlier comment about an app called Giggle?
When Sal Grover started Giggle it was more ‘inclusive’ but the behaviour of non-female users made her change her mind. Since making the app for females only (and speaking up about women’s rights) Sal faces rape and death threats, regular receiving dick pics, with many of these accompanied by words ‘choke on my girl cock’.

Tweets by salltweets

I’m not sure I understand these nuances.

LGB Alliance – are they excluding trans from their umbrella, or actively anti-trans.

And do I understand right – that a M->F transgender person who is still, or subsequently or whatever, attracted to other women, LGBA don’t consider them to be lesbian?

They have a website, a twitter account and a facebook page. A better source of information than anything anyone posts here would be their own words.

Here’s another article about the LGB Alliance.
https://lesbianandgaynews.com/2021/06/lgb-alliance-have-confidence-in-the-charity-commission-as-trans-childrens-charity-mermaids-leads-legal-attempt-to-overturn-decision-on-charity-status/

No doubt some will arrive to slur the website and it’s founder David Bridle.
David Bridle is also the founder of Boyz Magazine, one of the longest running gay magazines (a free publication available in gay bars). Last year, after the Boyz Twitter account re-tweeted content from the LGB Alliance, they was a huge pile and calls for ‘cancellation’. Boyz was about to run (as it had done for many years) a special issue on HIV awareness. Sponsors including the Terrence Higgins Trust pulled out so the special never happening. Now, financially, Boyz is struggling to keep going.

Can you not just swipe left (or right, whichever one means you’re not interested) when you see someone you don’t find attractive on a dating site?

Why should we have to? What can’t we simply say ‘women seeking women’ (in the way that 99.99% of people understand) and not get kicked off. Grindr appears to be going the same ‘inclusive’ way, a gay man has just been kicked out for being explicit about his same sex attraction.

We are a marginalised group are are not allowed spaces to ourselves.

you think I’m being transphobic for not considering this person to be part of my dating pool

No.

But all of mainstream LGBT+ organisations do.

There are no dating apps for ‘women seeking seeking women’, and they is only ONE app in existence that is just for women. It’s called ‘Giggle’ which I think is a terrible name and is putting off many women (myself included) from joining. Since it’s inception there has been a relentless campaign again the app and it’s creator (Sal Grover).

On a FB group local to me there is male who is now presenting a female. I am not sure what their ‘pronouns’ are as their fb user name is a mixture of both (traditionally) male and female names. I’ll use they/them to avoid accusations of misgendering.

Their profile picture (created with some kind of filter) is best described as looking like an child-like sex doll. Recent photographs of this person show them (they are 40 years old) having grown out (and dyed blond) what limited hair they have, dressed as what can best be described as jail-bait. i.e. not how (most) 40 year old women would dress.
This person joined a Facebook lesbian dating group, posting pictures and asking ‘do you think I’m hot?’. One of my friends, as respectfully as she could, said ‘but you aren’t a lesbian’ and was booted from the group.

Again, a question for everyone, do you think I’m being transphobic for not considering this person to be part of my dating pool. Bruce Wee seems to be implying (with the sex is complication thing) that I (and others like me) am.

Edit: I am in no way ‘denying’ this person right to exist, but they are NOT a lesbian, and I would like to have spaces where it’s okay to say this, and to mix freely with other women.

For those new to the LGB Alliance name, PinkNews has a bit of a summary of their story so far here:

Pink **** News? Are you going to quoting the Sunday Sport next?

Kelvin and Bruce Wee, Wow, just **** wow, I knew you’d react like this, and I doubt no-one (or maybe two people) here will call this this out as the homophobic bullying it it.

As I said before, I am a lesbian, I am attracted to people of the same sex. Until what seems like 5 minutes ago everyone understood what this meant. The LGB Alliance is the only organisation supporting same sex (rather than same gender) attraction.

For everyone else, Lesbians being forced underground again, into private Facebook groups etc, where memberships has to be strictly checked, and language moderated to avoid being flagged by FB algorithms. On other social media platforms such as reddit, groups have been completely shut down.
Attempts to organise real-live events are thwarted by venues demanding ‘inclusivity’.

Doesn’t this sound like a marginalised group to you?

Well, Pride Month is off to a flying start.
Lead by Jolyon Maughan of the Good Law Project (a privileged, straight, white man), a number of
well-funded LGBT+ organisations (including Mermaids) have come together to launch a court appeal against the LGB Alliance’s charity status.

This action was initially supported by Stonewall, who then immediately pulled out.

The LGB Alliance is run by volunteers and funded by donations (from an increasing number of supporters).

Do you think that Lesbian, Gay and Bisexual people have the right to organise for their own interests? If not, why not?

I’ll not be participating any further in this thread, but I’d ask you give this a watch. As of the weekend Sinead Watson joins the growing list of women banned from Twitter.

It’s based on talking to people who are directly affected by this issue. Reading posts on this thread; people posting on previous threads (one of whom started one entitled “it really hurts” not all that long ago because of shitty attitudes of people who thought their opinions were more important than others’ life experiences); and speaking with people I know personally.

But you can’t seem to acknowledge that those whom you disagree with are coming from a place of experience too. I’ve spoken with detransitioners, all who now realise they are Lesbians. Every one of them has had life changing surgery, and now face living with the consequences of their actions (and being dependent on artificial hormones) for the rest of their lives. Those consequences include, but are not limited to, male pattern baldness and vaginal atrophy. I’m talking about young women in their early 20s.

The dating app ‘Her’, originally for Lesbians and Bisexual women (but now seemingly open to anyone) recently emailed users with advice on the ‘benefits’ of micro-dosing with testosterone.

Have you seen the news about EHRC?

Yes I have. At face value this seems like good news.
For anyone wondering, the EHRC is no longer a member of the Stonewall Diversity Champions Scheme.
https://sex-matters.org/posts/media/press-release-equality-and-human-rights-commission-cuts-ties-with-stonewall/

Really? What makes you say that?

For one, I have more than one friend with a daughter, whose ‘identity’ has been questioned by their peer group. Just leave them be!