Out of interest then – how would the remainers on here feel if we had a Norway style deal?

Or Swiss, I understand Swiss snow is also acceptable to some Leavers.

A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it.

Some truth in this IMHO.

My old DX torch has what’s known as an “Assault Crown”

I wondered what this was too, I was eventually told that the crown is machined away a bit so that it can be used to dig into the flesh of any would be attacker, rather than just used as a kosh like a normal torch would.

Not sure on the veracity of this so if anyone has heard different?

Whatever humans can do, nature can do better!

Been carfree for 15 years, since then managed to have two kids who are now at primary school. Wife won’t drive, I use car clubs, hire cars and car jacking* if necessary. Probably spend between £500-£1000 a year on them.

*This may not be true.

It’s pretty easy when you think and plan ahead, not so easy if you’re already living a lifestyle linked to car-convenience though.

I really hate blagging lifts and using other peoples cars too. So I don’t do that either.

You’re obviously not married.

I’m afraid I am, but that’s a different thread. Actually it’s an entire forum. And we’re back to Mumsnet!

No one argued she had sex with someone else weeks earlier or later so it meant she consented with him.

Thanks for the clarification Junkyard.

the new evidence was a sexual partner from the week[days] before Ched and two weeks after the incident who said she said the same things
“**** me harder” basically

Really? So consent from previous times can be used for future reference? Jeez.

Unless you respect wannabe wags who get too pished to keep their pants on..

More respect for her than for men who have sex with pished women when they’re barely in a state to consent.

The law is an ass when it comes to rape. It’s ridiculous that “consent” is even used as a measure. It should be “enthusiastic participation”.

I thought it was about stopping everyone dying from pollution?

That’s VED isn’t it?

Or am I getting mixed up with the “Low Emission Zone”?

Or may be they (the various taxes) have multiple roles?

I think these are the people that are not so clever.

Nah, they just have different priorities…

…ones that I don’t understand or empathise with at all, but I’m sure they justify it to themselves one way or another. You gets your kicks where you can and all that.

It really is about money making / tax raising.

It’s great isn’t it!

Course the side effects of green and active transport are pretty good too!

Win win!

True, most of you lot are riding round on bikes more expensive than most cars!

Also, it’s cheaper to run a car than catch a bus for my commute!

So:

Rich people – Buses and bikes
poor people – cars
poorer people – BSOs (maybe?)
poorest people – pedestrians

Could you hold the trigger down backwards for the duration? Wouldn’t the recoil move the rifle around a bit if it isn’t supported by the rest of your body?

Seems a bit far fetched to me…

We already have a tiered road system:

Rich people – cars
Poor people – public transport (buses)
Even poorer people – bikes
Poorest – pedestrians

That’s Capitalism!

But somehow folk are now more confident that everything is going to be just fine.

They’re riding on the wave of optimism that the papers are churning out now that we’ve “taken back control” and “Britain is going to be Great again”…

…it’s going to be one hell of a hangover/comedown.

I’ve also seen what it does to those left behind. Believe me you’ll be missed and the world of hurt and emotional scars left on those you love will never heal.

This is what stays my hand. Guilt is a powerful tool. Yet there will come a time when I am no longer needed.

Once you’ve had depression it’s hard to go back, it’s like stripping away the veneer that gives life a purpose and once you’ve seen how pointless and futile it is you can’t unsee it.

Douglas Adams – Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy – The Total Perspective Vortex. Always makes me think “What is the point…”

I can’t help you, can’t even help myself, don’t really even want to help myself, certainly don’t want anyone else trying to help, is that even logical? No.

I empathise so much with this.

Interesting thread. I have suicidal thoughts regularly, have done since my early teens, so 20/30 years now. I’ve planned how to do it, where to do it and what to do to prevent anyone ill equipped sorting out the aftermath. That’s a big concern for me really, the problems of ensuring that whoever has to deal with my corpse and the rest of it can do so easily and without too many emotional repercussions. That and that my dependents are suitably provisioned for.

Of course I have a wife, children, siblings and parent to think about too, so I will have to wait a good 20/30 years before I put any plan into action (unless something big happens that means my responsibilities suddenly disappear). If I even do it at all of course.

The weird thing is that I don’t think I’m depressed, or suffer from depression. It’s more just a lack of enjoying stuff. Dignity on their website explain this as a “weariness of life” and that about sums it up. I don’t have the black hole of despair that other posters have talked about. I know that if I go then there will be people upset, they won’t automatically be better off without me (though there is every chance they would be!).

I think it may be a selfish act for me to do, I don’t think I could put it down to mental health the like, my thoughts seem pretty rational and I have considered and read a lot about the subject over the years.

Feels good to write it down though.

Thanks for listening.

Geographically London is still well placed for a gateway in to Europe.

Is it? You’ve still got the rather large physical barrier of the English Channel and the frankly poor surface travel infrastructure in Britain. If you want to go anywhere in continental Europe, then I would suggest that most other central urban locations are preferable.

Everyone else has to stop polluting so that we can crank out loads more. You what ??

Standard fair in my experience of the aviation sector. They view themselves as “untouchable” when it comes to pollution controls, unless it comes with fuel efficiencies of course…

no point having a European hub outside of Europe.

No need for an extra runway then!

I remember sniffing 1,1,1 Trichloroethane* at the back of class at school, happy (but possibly dangerous) days.

* Little bottles of Tipp-ex thinners, the ones with the green lids.

i agree, but raising those questions does tend to get me lumped in with the swivel-eyed-racists…

Collateral damage?

Who knows, if it’s any consolation I’ve grown quite fond of being a “tree hugging, yogurt knitting hippy” and a “hand wringing lefty commie liberal”! :-)

‘land’ is only one of the resources required to accommodate a growing population. <snip>

Oh yes, I quite agree. There’s also a strong argument for a more efficient use of existing resources too. We’re pretty wasteful as a nation in terms of energy, water etc.

we can’t just keep on building until the ‘percentage-developed’ value hits 100.

(or maybe we can/will, but expect quality-of-life assessments to fall fast and hard)

I don’t think the numbers of immigrants we’re talking about require the paving over of the entire nation. a few hundred thousand on top of the existing 6/7 million is a relatively small percentage increase.

bear in mind that we don’t need thousands of houses, we need millions. And that’s millions of proper houses, not millions of crappy 1bed studio flats for ‘potential investors’.

Again, you won’t get any argument from me there. However, more efficient use of what we’ve got in addition to further sustainable (apologies for the use of that word) development isn’t going to destroy the entire GB/UK.

Edit: I assumed you’re talking about over-population in the UK.

I assumed otherwise!

I think it’s based around the thinking that education/opportunities for women generally sees a levelling off of population growth. Compare developing and developed countries population ststs and it kind of makes sense.

The reasons for this are many and varied (and not necessarily proven), but amount to things like:

Women are free to pursue careers rather than kept at home as childbearers/rearers. Their life choices are not as limited, and their reproductive rights are far more secure (they have access to and use of contraception, abortion etc.). There rights are equal to mens so things like conjugal rights, marital rape etc. are decreased significantly (though not enough unfortunately). Their place in society is significantly improved giving them security outside of their male partners/relatives.

That’s about the limit of my understanding anyway.

Solo – I see the problems you do too. However, I was thinking from a national scale, rather than a very localised one like you’ve explained. Nationally, there are empty properties, there are land banks waiting to be built on etc. We have a housing crisis that needs sorting, we don’t have a massive shortage of space per se.

Solo – But is there too many people in one place? I’m not convinced this is true. Happy to hear the arguments/information though.

Only 10-15% of the UK is developed, there’s still an awful lot of space, just needs to be used efficiently. Also brownfield/vacant sites could be utilised.

Increased population shouldn’t be an issue, it’s how to manage it that should be the issue considering we have the resources to do so.

Globally, you’re spot on about Feminism though.

tbh you’re pissing against the wind.. i was against it, and firmly believe it was a stitch up from the beginning, but I’m thinking **** it, let’s get on with it.

You could be right, but I’ve always been an optimist rather than a realist :-)

Two clear choices today – to try and make a success of Brexit and the huge opportunities or sit moaning about how you lost the Referendum

Third option – Try to steer the entire tanker away from the rocks before it’s too late. There seems to be lots of support for this option too.

Has worked for me

Has for me too, in the past. Now, I think I’d struggle, as would my family.

Unfortunately, one size does not fit all.

If there’s a shortage of jobs in your area then just move to somewhere where there is work (just like the immigrants do)

I think I’ve been made redundant about six times in my adult life (20 years give or take). Each time I have moved to find a job, it is easy… …unless you have a family that is settled. Not so easy moving schools for kids or if your partner has a job, or if you have a support network. Although I do understand that a lot of migrants are in a similar position is it the way we would want society to function? That is, an almost nomadic way of life for the economically viable?

Not sure, but worth considering I think.

Everything I read about immigration into Britain suggests that it is such a tiny problem compared to other elephants in the room (pensions, health spending). I get that it is a problem for some areas, but these aren’t distributed evenly nationwide, so why don’t those most impacted by them have more local/regional solutions? I’m thinking along the lines of more resources funnelled to these places to pay for additional school places, healthcare and the like.

It just seems that a relatively small national problem (but a big local one) has suddenly got all out of hand compared to everything else.

Munrobiker – Please say thanks to your missus (I don’t understand why she’s being penalised so much), and I’m glad you aren’t echoing your mum’s families views.

Oh, so it has worked?

I knew there was a reason I never opted for economics, I’m rubbish at statistics too so got no hope for understanding this stuff.

Rubbish, its simple Economic prudence

Except it isn’t because it’s not saving anything or reducing anything is it?

I used to do fruit pick (strawberries, soft fruits) as a holiday/weekend job at school (<16), while still living at home and going to school. It would never have paid enough to live on but was plenty for pocket money. May be the employee market they are aiming for is different?

Or it could be: parents don’t want their kids working these jobs (if any), or the kids get provided with enough by their parents.

It’s interesting that the demographic at the places I worked at is different to that mentioned above. I.e. mostly school kids rather than FTE as a means to live on.

Ah yes, thanks for the clarification cranberry.

And wrong.

Defence 6%

Education 11%

are we looking at different pie charts?

http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/uk_central_pie_chart

More is spent on Defence than Education. Jeez. That’s depressing.

Thanks Kimbers and THM. Thought it’d be something simple (?) like that.

Took me years to realise that Cobham wasn’t Chobham.

Me too!

Can someone explain the whole “Austerity” thing? I’ve worked in Local Govt and seen an awful lot of cuts to all services – social, transport, health across the board really. Funding to Local Authorities has been slashed and council tax rises threatened with further slashes from central Govt. So from my perspective “Austerity” is still here, has been for years and is predicted to be for years again (post Brexit).

So where’s the money going? Is it big infrastructure like Crossrail and HS2? Rich folks pockets? Paying off the banks post crisis? Tax cuts? Why are they continuing to borrow too?

Sorry for the questions, just missing some big gaps in my knowledge.