Just stamped on my SPDs until they let me clip in! Brute force and blind ignorance wins over ice (plus I figured I’d struggle to break anything on my M520s, they seem to be hewn from a single chunk of steel, judging by their weight anyway!).

Had an interesting commute in though, aside from the usual waggling the rear mech every few milesto be able to change gear, my disc brakes froze on and off quite regularly. They are Avid BB5s so I reckon there’s a bit of water in the cables somewhere.

Agree with most here, not a vast amount of interest during pregnancy. More concerned with how the Missus was. Likewise afterwards, I didn’t experience the stereotypical “rush of love” and bond immediately. It kind of snuck up on me after little-un got through the first few months of his life.

Very scary times if the truth be told. Wasn’t looking forward to spending my life as a father without having any kind of emotional attachment to my son. I recognised and accepted my responsibility, but didn’t feel anything for the little-un. Couldn’t really explain to the Missus why I didn’t feel like she did and worried about it all for a long time.

Fortunately, over time the bond and love developed. Nothing like the epithany mentioned above, more of the tide coming in and suddenly realising I was neck deep in seawater!

Don’t worry Quirrel it’ll all work out in the end, even if it doesn’t happen before the birth.

I think it was you who choose to take that track on this thread Mat, from what I can see prior to your input it was just a bunch of people sharing their experiences. Maybe it’s a particular hobby-horse of yours, rather than that of your “preachers”?

You don’t manage an average of 15000 miles p/a for 17 years if you drive too fast and inappropriately. The proof is in the pudding – no points, no crashes, cop driving course and cop driving job for a year and IAM member (and invited to be a trustee by them) for 14 years = vaguely got the hang of “safe” driving.

Still far from perfect but better than preachers who claim to be whiter than white yet get multiple points or crash.

Yeah, I remember you writing something similar justifying yourself in the last thread. Still can’t see you justifying your “spirited” driving to the Feds though. Just can’t understand how you can concentrate properly on both being aware of other road users and racing your mates. P’raps I’m just not as good a driver as those who race…

Ask an insurer who he’d give the lower premium to – me or one of the holier than thou lot with points.

Hmm… nah, can’t really be bothered. I’ll just trust you to be correct on this one.

Weren’t a few posters here preaching about how bad speeding is when I mentioned “spirited” driving a while back?

No, I think most were concerned about your racing, rather than specifically speeding. The lack of concentration on the road environment compared to focussing on keeping up with the driver in front/ahead of the driver behind was the reason for this.

At least that was my understanding of your spirited driving example.

I’d be a conscientious objector for sure. I’m not saying I would have had a solution to the problems in 1914 and 1945 but all I know is war is not it.

Me too. Although I doubt I’d actually have the courage to turn around and so “no, I don’t believe this is the answer” if I was called up…

..too much of a coward.

the upgraded basingstoke canal path in woking area is a real pain and there is much conflict between cyclists and peds…

to be be fair there are nob cyclists and peds that use it… peds that walk in the middle on purpose and cyclists that are discourteous…

biggest problem too many people using the same bits of earth.

I use the Basingstoke Canal towpath probably about three times a week, even when it’s busy I’ve found it fine, just got to remember to leave a bit of extra time when using it though, as you invariably can’t go too fast on it. Someone told me once that it wasn’t really designed for cyclist use above 10mph, not sure on the provenance of that though.

Two top tips – 1) Use a bell, most people react well to it, and those that don’t are wearing i-pods or are just grumpy. 2) Take some off-road lights, those who wear i-pods get a real shock when they suddenly see their own shadow in front of them! It’s great for the darker mornings and evenings too. (I recommend the Dealextreme one on full power, probably best to turn it down to low after you pass them though!)

and holding someone down and letting a slobbery dog lick their face is very effective too……..or so i have been told. :-)

A cat with catfood-breath and a sandpaper tongue would have me singing like the proverbial canary in minutes if not seconds!

What’s the outcome though? What is achieved? What conflicts are resolved?

Arguing/debating doesn’t have to result in a resolution. The journey itself can be the goal, much like my commute really: I much prefer the cycle to work, to the work itself!

On a different note, the outcome could also be a strengthening of viewpoints or a change in opinion. I accept the latter is highly unlikely to occur here, at least with regard to the primary participants. But those viewing the thread may gain more than those taking part, I find them interesting and in some cases have changed my own opinion after reading some of the debates on STW.

Don’t stifle TJ and Zulu! They’re the ends of the spectrum that enable everyone else to sit comfortably somewhere else on the bell-shaped curve!

Unfortunately , contradictory as it sounds, you may need to do terrible things to protect civil liberties and freedom like say torture, murder or carpet bomb dresden.
Sometimes the enemy does some really nasty things and you need to do nasty things to them to stop/prevent them.

This was my first reaction too.

But TJ’s stance has made me think a bit more about the longer term implications of these actions. Sure Dresden getting levelled may have stopped the same happening to Birmingham, but in the longer term I can’t see that humanity have really gained anything by it. I’m not talking about our grandparents, parents, childrens and grandchildrens lives. I’m talking about us as a species, the more we perpetuate the idea that violence can be stopped by violence the more the cycle continues.

Bit heavy, but got me thinking a bit.

double post error

let alone the fact that your claim would be against the first law of thermodynamics!

Wouldn’t that be mass, rather than volume? If the ore was solid, and the waste was gas, then the former could have a much smaller volume that the latter.

When people are told they can only watch tv for x hours a day, how do you think they will feel when they find out how much energy places like CERN are using. Governments don’t like science much as it is, turn the people against it too and you will kill it off.

Won’t happen. People will be charged to watch TV and if they can’t afford it, they won’t. The only people who will compare the two are the tabloids, just like they already have done over the past year or so given the publicity CERN have generated (excuse the pun).

Care to volunteer an example? At least one where natural resources haven’t blessed an nation with endless resource? ie could be applied here or anywhere

Well, if you going to put caveats in, then of course there aren’t going to be any examples! It’s capitalist nature to exploit all exploitable resources, and as very few other systems have functioned for anything as long and as wide ranging then we don’t really have much of precedent to choose from!

However, human nature doesn’t have to be fully capitalist. No reason why a social and environmental agenda can’t be included, and in some of the smaller socieites I’m sure it is.

Why does human nature have to change?

Because it is key. We are wasteful at best and in part I agree with some of TJs ideas we do need to reduce BUT we need to do it slowly. Some can be achieved by initiatives (insulation ets) but this will not make the changes we need. We (me included) need to think before we hit a switch or dial and be aware of the consequences.

Ah right. Sorry I thought RealMan was referring to our (humankind) urge to progress. I don’t think we are wasteful at best, there are numerous examples globally of humans functioning vey well efficiently. We’ve just been lulled into this all encompassing consumerism in the “advanced” West.

You’re right though about major behaviour change being required.

So you plan on changing human nature, rather then just living with a small risk of radioactive poisoning.

Its not hard to imagine energy rationing killing off science as well, which of course leads to zero progression. So we will be stuck living off tidal, solar, wave, etc. in our energy efficient houses forever.

Not sure who this was aimed at.

Why does human nature have to change?

Energy rationing doesn’t have to mean that all progress is shelved. Just inefficient use of energy. Stuff like poor insulation in peoples houses, losses through an inefficient delivery network (incidentally reduced significantly by local microgeneration: You don’t have to move the energy from generation point to use) these things all add up. Energy efficiency doesn’t mean scientific progress stagnation, the development of the ICE (potentially ironically) is proof of this!

There’s always ways around the problems the conservatives (with a little “c”) put forward!

There will be incidents, that’s a statistical certainty. But they will be few and hopefully well managed.

And in a few centuries we should have cracked efficient fusion, and then we won’t have to store any more waste, so we can either get rid of it into space, and never have to worry about it, or store in in mile thick concrete bunkers 10 miles underground or whatever so we don’t have to worry about it.

I love you certainty! I really hope you’re right, because I suspect the majority of people in Britain think along the same lines as you.

I suppose I’m just too cautious for this option to be considered personally satisfactory. This and the fact that I believe there is so much wastage of energy that a fullscale efficiency drive could reasonably reduce consumption to levels that would enable us to maintain a sufficient standard of living (not wearing hair shirts and living in caves I hasten to add!), while utilising the myriad of renewables available to us (particularly an excellent island location like Britain).

I just can’t see nuclear energy as anything except a sop to our collective vanity and love of cheap energy. I fully accept I may be hypocritical by typing this too!

Sorry, not as forum savvy as many!

We have had ways of storing it for decades, and ways of transporting it, both of which are safe. Therefore we have ways of keeping it safe for an infinite amount of time, as long as it is maintained and properly looked after.

Conjecture, noun, verb, -tured, -turing.

Fair enough. You’ve got more faith in the appropriate authorities doing their job for several thousand years than I have. I can’t think of an example in history that withstands this period of time…

:D

:?:

We do have ways of storing it for thousands of years.

Really? Ones that are safe and secure? This is news to me, any further info?

It sounds odd, but given money and time there will be ways to develop getting rid of it permanently, if doing so is thought to be worth it.

But if it’s going to cost that much and take so long it’s not going to happen is it? Just be cheaper to use alternatives now surely?

The potential of it leaking being described as catastrophic is really overcooking it, its happened before quite a few times when it wasn’t stored properly, and I’m not quite sure, but I think loads of it has been dumped into the sea. But you probably have never heard of these incidents, because not enough harm was called for anyone to care that much.

This is probably because the long term effects of radioactive pollution are difficult to predict. Not to mention the polictical sensitivities of nuclear waste loss. The publicity is likely to be minimal and hushed up asap. Look how long it took for Windscale, Three Mile Island and even Chernobyl to hit the press.

And if you do have an alternative, other then TJs “lets go back to the dark ages” idea, let the world know.

There isn’t an alternative. But the “back to the dark ages” idea is reducto ad absurdum. Worthy of the Daily Mail-esque tabloid scaremongering only. I expected more from STW.

So less than £2 for 24 hours use – and that assumes it only lasts for one year…

True, but I suppose there are other costs, such as TJs land values suggestion, security, lighting, car parking management systems. Not sure about the only lasting one year thing*, I assumed it was over the lifetime of the car park so if it lasts five years thats 5x£400, £2000 per space.

* I’d have to dig out the reference to find out the details which may take some time!

You’d expect a tired hospital worker to walk home in the wee hours after a shift?

Or where would they put their bicycle or moped?

If I worked a 12hour night shift and its winter theres no way I’d cycle home.

Its not practical is it? So why penalise the staff?

If they can afford to buy and run a car surely they should be able to afford to pay to park it? It’s not practical to own one otherwise.

Why penalise staff who don’t drive by forcing them to cover costs they don’t incur?

No problem with hospital visitors and staff having to pay to park. I have heard it costs (on average in Britain) £400 per annum to build and maintain a parking space. I’d rather the user paid for this, than the NHS diverted money that should’ve been used for clinical costs.

Of course that doesn’t mean that the staff shouldn’t be paid additional money, but why should those who choose not to commute by car be forced to cover the parking costs of those who do?

Everyone is prone to making a mistake.

Ain’t that the truth (from another appalling driver)

It does raise the question of how many mistakes we are willing to accept, and what level of consequences we’re willing to accept though.

Personally, I don’t think a mistake like this, from a professional driver, resulting in a fatality is acceptable. I also don’t think the levels of KSIs on our roads at the moment are acceptable either. The only way to reduce the current levels is to change what we doing at the moment. If that means introducing stiffer penalties to ‘encourage’ motorists to stop killing and injuring each other and other roadusers then so be it. I should point out that I don’t believe for one minute that this is the only way to change the status quo, there’s a lot of other area that could be tackled too (training, engineering etc..).

Don’t worry folks, it’s only a matter of time till we start forking out the proper costs of transporting all this stuff around the world (marine/aviation fuel is likley to get quite expensive over the next decade). Once that gets sorted out, goods from China won’t be nearly as attractive as goods which are manufactured within a few hundred miles of the consumer.

but it would take a very hardened person block out a death on their conscience.

Possibly, but it could also be argued that it would take a very strong person to accept it and learn to live with it, rather than taking the easier option of denying it and laying the blame elsewhere.

Sorry KT, not having a go at you, just whenever these threads crop up it unnerves me how often this “punishment” is used as a justification for soft sentencing.

I always wonder in these cases, when someone springs to the defence of relatively soft sentence using the argument that “they’ll have it on thier conscience for the rest of thier lives” whether this is really true.

There’s that TV ad of the motorist seeing the dead boy he’d killed in assorted places (park, office, etc…) and I’m not convinced this is the case for lots of people. I think there may well be quite a strong argument for people being able to self-justify their actions after the event to direct blame/guilt away from themselves on to someone/something else (road conditions, poor junction design, the victim). Probably as a way to cope, but not necessarily meaning that they change their behaviour to prevent it happening again.

I’ve been on other fora where people have admitted to, and sometimes served time for offences and while there is remorse, there is also times when I think “actually, that seems to be exactly the way you thought before, which led to these circumstances occuring, whats preventing the event occuring all over again?”

Anyways, just my opinion.

Yep, solo night riding is great fun. Scares me silly sometimes, but fun nonetheless!

Same rules as day solo riding, maybe emergency lights too?

‘Brass Eye Paedogeddon’

Must remember to Youtube that this evening, genius telly that was, the whole series!

Lots of “methinks they doth protest too much” on this thread!

I’m with TJ on this one, bells are the way forward.

I used to think they were agressive and a kind of “get out of my way” demand (like car horns tend to be), but more recently I’ve learnt it’s not the instrument itself, it’s the way you use it. Give ’em a ring when you’re 15/20 metres away and it’s a polite gesture, wait ’til you’re right behind them and you’re being a bit of an arse.

Oh yeah, and those little ‘ting-ting’ ones? They’re rubbish in wet weather (the water dampens the sound somehow), get one of the proper dring-dring ones. Top tip – they sell ’em in Wilkos for around a quid!

I'm with you on the marzipan, but I do like cake. Except fruitcake made with little bits of orange peel in it. That's just rubbish.

Such and such "really boils my piss", and all similar urine related heating comments.

I don't understand where this came from, or why, but it irritates me.

Foucault's Pendulum by Umberto Eco.

I'd forgotten about that pile too! Couldn't understand why it was so popular.

Another one I forgotten "The Divine Comedy" seems to be responsible for a lot of interesting ideas and spawned some other good works by other writers, but just couldn't get into Dante's stuff. Probably a bit highbrow for me though.

I picked up a submersible heater from the local Tropical Aquatics shop, probably exactly the same as ones you can get in brew shops. It's done the job for the last two winters!

Top-tip, wrap a duvet and blankets around it when it gets really cold.

Did I say "race" anywhere? The RS6 was behind me, he didn't attempt to overtake. A race is for a racetrack – this was using quick cars for what quick cars do – they go quickly.

A race involves overtaking, jostling for position. A race on a public road usually means silly maneouvres to get ahead. This (and similar "fun" – oops sorry did I equate "driving" with "fun" – I need burning at the stake) often leads to crashes by poor drivers. No one "wins" a fast drive with another car on roads with just two lanes.

The only time you "win" is when some gimp usually in a 2.0TDI Audi or Golf decides to try and prove himself (or more increasingly herself) by driving up your backside when you can't move out of the way on a dual carriageway or motorway. So as the traffic clears, it can be fun to leave them for dust. Safely.

None of you moaners with powerfulish motors ever floored it when someone is constantly tailgating you? Oh of course not. None of you ever enjoyed a quick drive with a mate driving in another car? Any of you detractors not dead from the neck down?

Ha ha! You justify to yourself however much you want chap!

If you concentrating on the car in front/behind, rather than on the road environment then you may as well be racing. It's only a semantic argument you're generating here.

Oh well, thanks for the thread, it was fun!

Have we made it to the back of the room yet with this post?

I think you're right. Seems to have degraded to insults.

Apologies if I made any false assumptions Mat, just airing my opinion based on what you've written. If you care to give me an example of when the Police would support your actions, then I'm more than happy* to change my opinion. I know very little about advanced driving (not being pious, just telling the truth) so a more experienced voice is welcomed.

* Maybe happy is the wrong word, no one likes being wrong!

Seconded "The Dice man" bored me silly.

Also, "The Catcher in the Rye" I did read it all the way through, but I thought it was pants.

Religious books aren't great either, the Bible and Koran I've both tried to read, but couldn't get past the first few pages.

Catch 22, was pap as well.

"Tussle" may be the wrong word – a "spirited few miles of driving" – both smiling, both having fun. If none of you have ever done that, you are talking complete and utter BS.

Never raced on a public road, not BSing, just sensible. I know I'm not a very good driver so getting into a situation like that would be stupid for me, and unwise for even a trained Police, high class, IAM accredited driver. I doubt that they'd have supported you stance for racing on public roads. I'd be interested to hear otherwise though? Can't really imagine a situation where they'd condone that!

Gone over the speed limit? Yes, but that's a whole different argument!

So, I take it the road wasn't closed and it wasn't a private race event then SM? Irresponsible and potentially dangerous it is then.

There's a difference between driving fast and safely, and racing though. If you're attention/concentration is on keeping up with the car in front or getting away from the car behind. Is it likely to be as much focussed on making sure the environment is clear enough for you to drive fast as it would be if the other car wasn't there?

Sounds irresponsible to me. But then we don't know the full circumstances, maybe the road was closed and it was a private event?