I accept that the relatively large pensions for the public sector cannot be sustained.

Well, this is were we differ. I don’t accept that, I think it’s posturing and spin.

It is rubbish, but I really can’t see another way of reducing spending (other than raising taxes, but that is the same end result). The view that ‘the rich can pay’ assumes that there are loads of rich people wallowing in pots of cash. There aren’t as a percentage of the total population.

True, but there are still many untapped sources of money out there that are more deserving of being tapped than teachers (and other public sector workers who are/will be in the firing line)

I suppose you think the NHS is fine as it is as well?

I don’t think I know enough about it to comment yet. However if this issue is anything to go by, I’d be willing to bet the situation isn’t half as bad as some would like to make out.

It’s only about 3 pages if you take out the bits where people have just quoted each other. Three pages of crap is about average I’d say.

Yeah, but the other three pages of quoting is also crap, because they were oringinally crap, they’re just quoted crap. So really six pages of crap is what we’ve got.

Either way though it’s nothing out of the ordinary!

So you think everybody that is already feeling the squeeze of pay freezes and higher prices of everything would happily accept increased taxes?

I assume this was aimed at my post.

Not happily no, and it doesn’t even have to be “everybody that is already feeling the squeeze” either. Plenty of rich folks out there who aren’t for example. Then check out Jon1973’s post for another example. Maybe a windfall tax on some of the better performing banks, plenty of other areas that could be tackled but Teachers seem to be the main target, anyone else wonder why?

Me? I reckon it’s ideology, one that’s been proven to be great for the few, but rubbish for the many a few times already…

I think they are a bunch of back-sliding work dodgers who have no idea how lucky they are to have any job and any career progression and any chance of a pension. The country is broke, the current system is unsustainable and something had to give.

Woo-hoo another one!

‘Fraid I disagree with most of this. Teachers do a valuable job, deserve to be paid an appropriate wage and not have their pensions mucked about with. The country isn’t broke, the current system isn’t unsustainable, the only thing that has to give is the Govt raising taxes (or one/more of a range of other money making measures that are unpalatable to it) to be able to afford the stuff it promised to a valuable profession a long time ago.

Strictly speaking, the money associated with family distress etc. isn’t a cost is it? It’s more of a monetary value associated with the distress isn’t it. It’s not as though that money exists anywhere in the economy does it?

The problems of quantifying the unquantifyable.

Would it not be calculated based on potential work time lost through distress, loss of earnings from anyone killed, professional time spent on counselling/psychology/psychiatric help. I suppose it depends how far down the line it’s taken, the impact can be lifelong for those it impacts on so could cover any conceivable expense.

Quite a scary undertaking really.

The original thread starter sums up the majority of teachers and is the reason why they get little in the way of non-teacher support from parents, we know that its almost a part time job with full time pay, we don’t buy this ‘I do lots of marking in my own time’ shit and we know that inset days are booked with the sole reason of a slow start back after holidays. Work 8 hours a day , 5 days a week 47 weeks a year then moan about conditions – until then get back to the classroom and quit whining.

Quality post! Love the stereotyping in it especially!

I’m a non-teacher and a parent, I fully support the striking teachers. It seems that there are a lot of people out there with similar sympathies too.

People buy cars for lots of reasons. For freedom if your sick of your surroundings, for employment if there is no jobs locally, to partake in activities that are not available locally, to visit friends and family or to just have some independence if your dependent on others.

All true, unfortunately in many cases these reasons are perceived and misguided. They also tend to be self serving, i.e. there are no jobs locally because everyone relies on the cheap and easy transport offered by cars. The trouble is this is only cheap and easy short term.

People love cars. Brits especially love their cars. We spend enormous amounts of money buying them and caring for them. We buy new ones for the joy we get. Some of us tinker with them and learn about them. Some take them to tracks and race them. I love my cars. One has a name, he’s referred to by everyone by his name not the model. It’s got happy memories embedded in its rusty old shell.

Nope, some people love cars. Many see them as a necessary requirment for cementing there place in society, a status symbol. Others see them as the only means of getting a job. There is a perceived “need” for the damn things! If only they were just there for people like yourself, if only they were just a luxury that could be enjoyed in ones leisure time! As it is many seem them as a necessary evil. The light at the end of the tunnel though is that some are beginning to see them as an unecessary evil.

You’re right, we brits are obsessed with our cars. I make no apology for it. As a minority I’m afraid you’re just going to have to learn to live with them.

As a Brit, I apologise for it. I apologise for the harm it has done to all the local economies, I apologise for the communities it’s destroyed, the health problems it’s contributed, the KSI figures, the marginalisation of big sections of society and the sheer boringness* of most of the cars on the roads.

*The Ford Focus, Vauxhall Vectras, VW Golfs et al all stifle the creativity that could so easily be unleashed by the motor industry. Such a shame that the potential hasn’t been realised.

Anyways, we are going to have to live with them, but there won’t be as many, they won’t be powered in the same way, they won’t be as cheap, they won’t be available to all and hopefully our society won’t revolve around them.

Interestingly I assumed the OPs post was to suggest the risk assessor thought that the people couldn’t afford a car, so had to cycle everywhere, not that she thought it was too dangerous to let your kids cycle on the road.

I think you’re right, but then whenever the whole kids-on-bikes/in trailers-on-roads thing crops up it all gets a bit helmet-debatey.

Quite odd though, you’d of thought the risk assessor would’ve focussed more on the perceived danger side of things rather than just making assumptions about the OPs income. Mind you, if anyone should know about the danger (or lack of) on the roads to cyclists it should be a risk assessor, so maybe she just viewed it the same as any other form of road transport? Bit surprised if it was this, but maybe I’m just being unfair on her…

It’s all our own fault, too.
I miss the butchers, bakers and greengrocers but ultimately by going to the supermarkets I’m partly to blame for their downfall. Once they’re gone; they’re gone. It’s a sorry state for sure.

My fault too. However all is not lost! Supermarkets are successful because they buy in bulk from the cheapest places. They can do this because fuel is cheap and shipping stuff around is economically viable. As fuel prices rocket their business models* will fail and it’ll be local produce that becomes more affordable because it doens’t have to travel as far. Bingo! Your local shops will pop up again, it’s starting already with farm shops cropping up in places previously devoid of retail.

*Having said that, they have become a bit wise to this. Anyone noticed the myriad of new Tesco Expresses, Sainsbury’s Local popping up? I reckon Coop seem to be in a better position at the moment though. They seem to have a better handle on the local produce market.

I second agreeing with Binners, in both posts!

At the risk of playing devil’s advocate, why do people ride on the road (with their kids)?

To get places, because you not supposed to ride on the pavement, there’s more space on the roads, it’s safer than some cycle lanes. Lots of reasons!

it appears we pay them to waste time and money dealing with idiotic members of the public…

That’s what they exist for surely? To serve the Public, idiotic or not.

Probably not helped by the legal requirements associated with FoI requests, but that’s an area I’m not that familiar with.

Excellent, I want to attend the Committee meeting where this kind of emergency planning is discussed!

I’ve got Lyras, never used BB7s but previously had BB5s so probably not very useful for you. But anyway! The Lyras I’ve got are pretty much the same as BB5s power and feel wise. Both are a bit of a faff to set up, but once it’s done they do the job as good as any rim brake.

One day I’ll upgrade to BB7s, their reputation seems second to none.

On thing to note, someone else mentioned it too, the sintered pads on Lyras are rubbish, get some organics and you’ll be fine. Also the discs the Lyras come with aren’t great (think fork judder) so factor in a better brake disc too!

FFS everyone must have some old 2in1/WD40/even motor-oil hanging around, that they could have used.

I ressurected a friends bike using extra virgin olive oil once, it worked a treat. Still cheaper than using Finishline Green too! Probably go with rapeseed oil next time though.

the politics of both far Right and Left are extremely similar in effect. Both the extremes bring totalitarian regimes. The out come of always the same, oppression and mass murder.

You can level the exact same charges at any system of human sociology/economics. Has anyone ever worked out the human cost of Capitalism? I’d be surprised if that hadn’t killed many more people than Hitler and Stalin (and Vlad, Genghis etc…) put together.

Peyote – I’m sorry you failed to see the humour in my post. However, knowing how my view on all things children changed when I became a parent, the underlying point still stands.

Ah. :oops: Didn’t realise it was tongue in cheek!

Interestingly, my view on all things children didn’t change drastically when I became a parent. Expecting another one along shortly so it may change then, but we’ll see…

TJ is a non-parent. He has seen other parents doing things before, therefore quotes that as a way forward for parents. He therefore has a point and it should be placed in order of merit along with his views on how to defuse bombs, his experiences with the Mars space program and his thoughts on Scotland.

That’s a bit low, attack the argument, not the arguer.

I’m reasonably sure that KC meant serious and more-serious. That’s a perfectly valid thing to debate but suggesting that he meant that some rape is not serious is party politics, taking advantage of a poor choice of words by KC. All IMO of course.

This is essentially the truth, the key things being “I’m reasonabaly sure” and “IMO of course”.

No one really knows whether KC has an outdated view on rape, they can only make assumptions on what he says. In this case he seems to have used the wrong words and the question is whether that was a simple mistake or whether it was more of a ‘Freudian slip’ (for want of a better phrase), and betrayed his true opinion on the matter.

Yes I agree with WARTON:

Me too, chocolate cake would be good. I always get sick of fruit cake for birthdays. Don’t know why people don’t just use ’em for Weddings, Christenings and Christmas. :wink:

James Cracknell went down in my opinion after that programme, but anyway I’d stick with my cheap and cheerful Giro Havoc/Indicator (had to buy a new one when I turned up at a race and forgot my helmet!)

Bit of Morcheeba and Orbital (In Sides) worked for me. If I was feeling particularly hippyesque Deep Forest or Enigma entered the CD tray!

What is the point of Local elections

Not much in my neck of the woods, I had the choice between two Torys and UKIP! I doubt any vaguely left leaning party would stand a chance around here though, it’s a given that the Tory’s will always get in here. But then that’s democarcy, it’s what the majority seem to want…

The motor/common sense-lobby are strong here…

slight typo there…

No typo, and the two aren’t necessarily mutually incompatible, no matter how much certain members of either group would have any of us believe to further their causes/bolster their arguments. :wink:

My choices in this instance are not affected by the environment or whether I may knock someone off their bike.

You’re not alone. Though sooner or later this maybe a minority perspective.

*dons fireproof suit*

Shouldn’t you wear that whenever you come on STW? Bit like a Polisman never going out without a stab vest?!

The motor-lobby are strong here…

I was hoping that by now everyone in this thread would have learned the errors of their ways and sided with the zealots and torched their cars and houses for the insurance and moved into tents pitched by their workplaces. Or is the very act of working now not acceptable down to use of power, natural resources etc and therefore we need to go back to an agrarian society (without fertilisers, pesticides etc of course).

Oi! We’ve already had the “back to caves, eating berries and wearing hessian sacks” stuff. Go back and read through that before coming back with your Reductio ad absurdum!

the royal family is an attraction, just like florida walt disney, does the US government fund that?!?!??!

Ooh, now there’s a conspiracy theory! If Disney is like many other large US corporations then you can bet that there is a vast amount of stuff going on behind the scenes which would amount to something similar.

I will still be taking my Birdy on there – I will only stop if they ban anyone taking a suitcase on that is larger than a brompton folded.

Their regs say a 20inch wheel atm, if they changed that there are an awful lot of Dahons and the like that will be outlawed.

Yep, I wouldn’t be allowed on with my Dahon Mu, yet those with huuuge suitcases would be fine. Makes no sense to me.

I ask in all honesty. Can the services we have already, cope with any more passengers?

The underutilised parts can, the parts currently operating at capacity can’t unless people accept a lowering of service levels, or significant investment in infrastructure happens. Guess which will happen with the current political climate?

Better surely if it hovered on water?

Couldn’t it run on water, and hover over water? Then I could get a fuel scoop attached to it just like in “Elite”.

Anyone who has made a choice in their lives has justified it to themselves in one way or another. Why should they be required to justify their choices to someone else who thinks they know better?

True, but justifying it to yourself is quite unreliable and biased. Plus you may not have all the facts and information to hand. If no one told you that a car emits CO2, NOx, SOx, CO etc… then why would you bother with justifying it to yourself?

I suppose once a problem gets to certain size then society has to justify it’s choices to itself as a whole. This includes our over reiance of cars, energy, fossil fuels, and consupmtion in general. If society is doing that to itself then it’s got to filter down to individuals at some point, which is when McHamish has to start thinking about the choices he makes and weighing them up with how society feels about the negative consequences of his actions.

One peron justifying their choies to another person on an Internet forum is just that, but it’s a taster of the route we’re all going to have to go down sooner or later…

I’ll hire a car or take a train when I need to, but the upfront cost does tend to focus the mind on whether something is essential or not.

Me too. I’ve often thought it’d be great to be able to lump all the upfront cost of motoring at the point you fuel it up. Not sure how it would work, but if people had to pay say £10 a litre to fill up and not buy the vehicle, pay rent, MOT, VED, insurance, servicing etc… Then I think they’d think very differently about it. If a car is just sitting on someones drive after they’ve paid, VED’d, and insured it, then it’s the obvious choice really.

I’d like a hovercar that ran on water please.

McHamish – Southwest trains rent Bromptons – that is why you occasionally see ones in SWT colors.

Brompton and SWT seem to be forming quite a partnership at the moment. I have heard rumours that SWT were going to ban all folding bikes on their particularly busy routes, except Bromptons, because of the ‘compactness’ of their fold. As I say this is just a rumour, but if there is any truth in it it would certainly make Bromptons the weapon of choice for many commuters in London and would be a big bonus for Bromptons market share. Seems slightly unethical though…

Lets imagine there is no royal family and they attempted to sell the case for one to the public….

so we will take a family, let them live like royalty in castles and palaces, jetting all over the world etc. This will be paid for by the state out of tax revenue and the right to live like this will be heriditary

right

Interesting thought experiment. The problem is that it doesn’t take into account the value of the “Royal” brand. Though how you put a value on that is a bit more difficult. That’s where the arguments really start!

Maybe they could be sold to English Heritage or The National Trust to look after? It’d keep them in their palaces, but we could all go along and have a nosey and if they became really unpopular we could just leave them to crumble in a 5000 acre country park before the BBC came along to make a new series of Restoration.

Unfortunately trains and buses don’t run on fresh air… I’d like to see their CO2 per passenger mile – once you figure in all the empty off-peak use, and the inefficiency of power generation and distribution for electric trains then I can’t see it making particularly green reading.

It’s all relative though, compared to cycling and walking then yes, it won’t look good. Compared to private car use it’s entirely dependent on the examples you choose, e.g. electric train powered on electricity generated from renewable sources at peak capacity compared to a diesel one running at 11:00pm. Plus it’s often forgotten that fossil fuels have to be dug out of the ground, porcessed and transported to where they’re going to be used. With a network of petrol stations this is going to be vastly more energy intensive than shipping it all to a lower number of consupmtion points (power stations). Then you’ve got the energy required to build the things in the first place, recycle them after they’ve reached the end of their lives think how many trains there are compared to cars, the relative sizes of each of them and the length of their lives. This is before even considering the infrastructure on which they run – roads and railways, stations and car parks etc…

Good luck on finding figures for all of that!

Don’t mean to worry you, but I had a similar issue last year. Turned out I had a frame fracture where the seatpost joined the BB shell. The crack was very fine and not too big (10mm) so could barely be seen when the bike wasn’t being pedalled. It was only really visible when the frame was under strain. Try leaning securing the toptube/seattube and having a waggle of the BB to see if you can see anything.

McHamish – I don’t envy you. Isn’t there anything you could do to improve your lot? Move out of The Smoke? Change jobs? Push your employer for flexible working and work at home/another office (if you work at a large enough organsiation)? Eat a sizeable breakfast, pump yourself full of Espressos and commute your 26km in the morning?

I do a 52 mile round commute once or twice a week and it’s a bit of killer getting started at 6:30am, but after the first 10 mins I wouldn’t change it!

Molgrips – What does I struggle with long sentences mean?

I don’t think in the two years I commuted by train that I ever got a seat. Even if you did they are too cramped to work or relax in.

I use a Blackberry, so even while standing on a train (I can’t remember the last time I sat down on a commuter train either) I can easily deal with e-mails. Even reading paperwork (A4 size) isn’t too difficult standing up, it becomes a bit more problematic standing on a platform as a train hurtles past at 50mph, but thems the breaks!