someone they knew got scoffed by a shark, at which point they realised that Australia is full of animals that prey on humans

LOL when that old one gets dragged out!

Sharks have killed 52 people in Australia in the last 50 years, that’s an average of 1.04 deaths a year. Meanwhile an average of 2 people a year die of wasp/bee stings in the U.K.

So, do you warn people not to come to the UK because of the killer wasps!

Australia also has a (slightly) lower homicide rate than the UK, so you’re also more likely to be killed by a human than I am, though granted – they’re not very likely to eat you afterwards!

I moved to Perth four years ago – as a mature Uni student. To those who say Perth (and Australia generally) is expensive – you’re dead right, but kinda missing the point.

If you do a direct comparison of the things you need to live comfortably in the UK, and price them up here, yes it’ll cost more. However, the point is that you don’t need all those things to have a great life here!

The government schools are great so you don’t need private education. Leisure time is spent at the parks and beaches & over a BBQ so you don’t need expensive restaurant meals, cinema tickets etc. You don’t rush to escape on expensive foreign holidays at every chance, instead you go camping in the national parks. And you don’t run a new BMW because the roads/heat/dust will trash it pretty quick, so you have an old banger. I could go on, but I think you get the point…

I’m living on a student grant (yes the Australian Government is paying me to study – quaint old fashion notion isn’t it!) plus the rent from my place back home, and I have to say my lifestyle is still much better.

Don’t get me wrong – I’m not saying Australia is paradise, and its not for everyone – many struggle to settle in, miss friends & relatives etc. But just doing a straight cost of living comparison misses the point – its a nicer place to live, not a cheaper one, and I know where I’d rather my children grew up!

Not saying you can’t convert a triple to a double – done it myself and so have plenty others on here… its just that the M665 bash wont fit your cranks without a bit of filing – its specifically made for the M665 cranks. Any aftermarket bash like E-13, raceface etc. will fit your M590 cranks fine, and look a whole lot better than the Shimano one ;-)

Sorry to be the one to give you the bad news, but the Shimano SLX M665 bash won’t “just fit” your M590 cranks (or any other cranks except the specially designed M665 ones for that matter!). Although the BCD of 104 is the same, the inside diameter of the bash is slightly smaller than a standard outer chainring. You can make it fit, but you’ll need to file about 1mm off the bash where each of the spider arms fit.

You’ll also need longer chainring bolts as the bash is significantly wider than an outer chainring.

Can’t comment on the chain devices – never found the need for one meself if everything else is set up properly – ie. chain right length, medium cage RD, double FD, properly matched chainrings, and correct chainline…

Perthmtb – Yup, that picture of mine is in Thornlie, Perth

Then I’m not far from you – Bibra Lake.

I regularly ride Mundaring and Jarrahdale, so drop me an email if you’re interested in meeting up for a ride sometime – Andy(at)cuttfamily(dot)com

Ishouldbeworking – is that suburban Perth in the background to your photo?

I got told using car shampoo was a no no due to waxes being in there and playing havoc with your brakes

Just avoid the stuff described as “wash-n-wax” and stick to the plain “car shampoo” and your brakes will be fine…

Another vote for car washing detergent here – but I make sure I get the stuff without the wax cos that makes my brakes squeal!

Got the right and left cups the right way round….? One is RH thread, and ‘tother is LH thread.

I would imagine the 9 speed crank will work fine on a 10 speed set up

the SLX double works fine with 10 speed anyway

Yep, it works, but the gear ratios are all wrong – you’ve got 22/36 up front, and the 10 speed 11/36 on the back. You could of course use a closer spaced 10 speed cassette, like an 11/32, but then you’ve lost about the only advantage of going ten speed anyway (36 rear), so might as well stay all 9 speed – which is what I’m doing!

@Gotama – thanks for the link… seems like the SLX double will live on in a proper ten speed version – “The SLX 2x cranks will come in the following chainring combos: 24/38, 26/38 and 28/40 tooth”. It’s almost enough to make me consider going ten speed :wink:

Just been reading up on the ‘Zee’

Be interested in that – linky?

Thought they were the same crank arms, just the double came with a bash.

… and the steel pedal inserts (where this thread started). Suspect you’re right about that, which means theoretically you could cobble together a nice tough ten speed double & bash by using SLX M660-10 cranks, 26 & 38T chainrings from an XT M785 crankset (if they’re available separately – haven’t seen them yet), and a 3rd party bash large enough for a 38T middle!

Still, it’d be easier if Shimano would just bring out a pucker 10 speed SLX double & bash…

Have they switched the thread to alloy for 2012 then??

You can still buy the 9 speed double & bash with the inserts, but its just that they haven’t released a 10 speed version of the double, like they have with the triple.

TBH how many people really need the steel inserts?

True, but it wasn’t just the pedal inserts the M665 had going for it – it also had a bashguard, and beefed up axle and cranks that Shimano themselves claimed made it “100% stronger than the XT”.

It was basically tough-as, and for someone like me who regularly bashed rocks and logs, it was perfect – and at about half the price of the Saint.

I run the SLX double on two bikes, and tucked a spare away over Xmas while CRC were doing them cheap, just in case Shimano stop producing them sometime soon…

SLX double with the steel ringe threaded inserts

If you’re talking about the steel pedal thread inserts on the cranks, then only the SLX M665 9 speed double has these.

There’s no 10 speed version of the SLX double, only the XT M785 10 speed double crankset, but it doesn’t have a bash guard or steel pedal inserts, so its not really equivalent to the SLX double IMHO.

Just another reason to stay 9 speed….

Hmmm… trying to work this one thru in my head… wouldn’t a thinner bleed block move the bite point further from the bar, ie. the brakes bite earlier in the lever travel?

In the remote chance that someone is trawling through the archives pondering the same situation – I’m now able to answer my own question –

Yes, the M575 Shimano yellow bleed blocks fits the M445/6 brakes….

Note shimano do not recommend facing

Why?

not sure the bleed spacer is necessary though?

You’re right, just about anything you can jam in there that keeps the pistons from extending while you pump the levers will do. However, I had a bad experience a few weeks back using a clothes peg, which twisted under the force of the pistons, one of the pistons pushed right out, mineral oil everywhere, and lots of air in the system!

So, for a few quid I decided it was better to get the proper Shimano block, which is exactly the right size, uncompressable, and is held in place by the same split pin that holds the pads – no need for lacky bands!

That bleed kit looks fine – all you really need is the mineral oil, some tube of the right size, and a container to catch the oil. Syringe is necessary if you do the ‘bleed from bottom’ technique, but I’ve only done the ‘bleed from top’ meself…

As for the split pins – never had a problenm with them, they do the job! Just straighten with needle nosed pliers to get them out, and bend with same after re-fitting. Shimano pads sets come with a new split pin if you manage to mangle/lose the original.

I’ll get some new pads on order, and I’ve been looking at some bleed kits on ebay.

I’ve just recently replaced pads and bled a set of M445’s. You’ll need Shimano B01S resin pads, like these B01S Pads, a shimano bleed kit like this Bleed kit, and a yellow bleed spacer like this Bleed block

I got a new bike which has Shimano hydraulic disc brakes – the front brake has a nice amount of power, but the rear does virtually nothing

Could it just be the rear hasn’t bedded in yet? I’ve had two new bikes in the last six months with the M445 brakes, and while the front on each has bedded itself in, the rear has needed a little help – cycling up a hill numerous times and hodling the rear brake on all the way down. For a long debate on what bedding-in brakes is all about, see Previous Thread

Would suggest just trying this before removing & scrubbing pads or switching things around – you’ve nothing to lose!

I agree with TJ that the symptoms you describe do not suggest the need for a bleed.

Edit: Ok just re-read your original post, and seen that you’ve already tried the hill/bed-in thing :oops:

Having gone this route (and back again – but that’s another story – see below) I can say its pretty much a straight swap. The E-13 Turbo is about the same thickness as the SLX bash, so if the bolts you have at the moment are long enough for the SLX, they’ll be fine on the E-13. Standard SLX chainring bolts are 8mm long, and the ones that come with the M665 double & bash are 12mm long. So, as long as you have the 12mm ones you’ll be OK. Even if you don’t, a new E-13 Turbo will come with longer chainring nuts – same effect, its all about having enough thread engaged between the bolt & nut despite the greater thickness of the bash ring over a standard chainring – so you either use longer than standard bolts, or standard bolts with longer nuts.

Just one thing to watch out for…

Although the SLX bash and the E-13 are both the same 104 BCD, the inside diameter of the SLX bash is smaller. The Shimano SLX M665 Double cranks have shortened crank arm spiders to match this, so if you then fit the E-13 to them there will be a small (only an mm or so) gap between the inside edge of the bash and the lugs on the crank arms its supposed to sit on. This shouldn’t normally be a problem, as the bash is still held firmly by the chainring bolts. But, I found after a few good hard clunks on logs, the plastic bash split around each of the chainring bolts on my E-13. Had no such problem with the original SLX bash as it was both held by the chainring bolts, and supported on the crankarm spider’s ‘lugs’. For that reason alone, I changed back to the SLX bash, despite it being so much more ugly than the E-13.

Note: If fitting the E-13 to a SLX M660 triple, XT M770, Deore or pretty much anything other than the modified SLX M665 double, you don’t get this problem, and the E-13 bash sits snugly on the crankarm lugs.

Sorry – long answer to a simple question, but having been thru this myself I thought I’d share my experiences…

I have an old XT one, suspect the issue is similar

Really – Shimano do an XT one? Be interested to see that, as I’ve only been aware of SLX and Saint bash guards made by the big S.

Interestingly, the new 10 speed XT M785 doubles can’t even fit a bash, let alone come with one – so Shimano must be moving away from the idea of bashguards… tho’ I don’t understand why?

No probs, haven’t used the chill version meself, only the standard ones. Be interested to hear back sometime later if the insulation properties really do work – I often ride in 30 deg. + temperatures, and a nice cold drink halfway thru a ride would be most welcome…

Hmm, considers whether he wants to get embroiled in this one…

Hell, why not :lol:

Ooops! premature posting…

Thing is – many will tell you (including the instructions Shimano put in with new mechs) that its unreasonable to expect to be able to use all combinations of gears without some rubbing at the extremes. Allied to this is the argument (which I’m sure someone will be along with soon) that you shouldn’t use all the combinations of gears.

I’m a bit in the minority here, but I actually expect to be able to use all 27, 30, whatever gears I’ve paid for without nasty rubbing noises! And I’ve managed to do it on all the bikes I’ve owned – double/triple, 8/9 speed, hardtail/FS.

But… it does take a bit of patience and fiddling to get it right.

As for your specific issue, I don’t know what FD you have – 8/9/10 speed, SRAM or Shimano, so can’t offer any specific instructions except to say that you start with the right chainline, then match the FD to your crank setup, then set the height on the frame correctly, then the cable tension, and finally start fiddling with the set screws.

Best advice I can give is to bring the thing into your living room one evening, put a nice CD on, and start from scratch following the manufacturers tech docs and/or park tools manuals.

When you’ve got it right its very satisfying!

the one i had in my head was the older saint bash

Ah, likewise, I’ve only had experience with the SLX ones, not Saint, so could only comment from that perspective…

Look no further than the Camelbak podium range – you wouldn’t think there was much you could do to a water bottle to improve it, but they have!

As for your specific criteria – yes they have a good wide neck to get a scoop of powder in, and the valve can be closed off to prevent leaks under transit, and dismantled to clean.

Well, if its the LBS you bought it from they certainly should have included the metal inserts – and they should also have told you you’d need longer chainring bolts, and it wouldn’t fit XT cranks without a bit of filing (assuming you told them how you were gonna use it?)

Does seem like it might be easier to just get an E-13 Turbocharger (or similar) which will fit without any modification, comes with all the bits you need, and looks much better anyway! :-)

Is it the M532 or M510 chainring?

If you do go Deore (see above ^^), then any of them – M510, M530, M532, M590 – will fit your XT cranks. The only practical difference between them is that the M510 were designed for earlier Shimano cranks with slightly longer spider arms, and the M590 are black colour.

Assuming you’re fitting them to M770 XT cranks?, then they have extra low lugs on the spider arms to accommodate the composite middle chainring, so none of the Deore chainrings (or any other ‘all metal’ chainrings like the SLX M665 one) will sit on the lugs on the spider arms anyway, but they’ll be held securely by the chainring bolts, so functionally it doesn’t really matter…

Depends what granny you’re gonna run it with.

Most of Shimano’s 36T chainrings are designed to work with a 26T granny. If that’s the combination you’re gonna use, then agree a cheap and hardwearing steel Deore one is a good way to go.

However, if you’re running it with a 22T granny, then I’d consider the SLX M665 36T, which is specifically designed to run with a 22T. The differences include two step ramps to help the chain the greater distance up from the 22T, shallower ramp angle so that the chain doesn’t overshoot the granny and end up on the BB shell on the way back down, greater depth so the chain can’t get jammed between the two chainrings, and ‘phase’ of teeth matched to the longer distance between the two rings.

I tried running a 36T deore with a 22T granny, and shifting was less than perfect, but changing to the M665 36T made it much better – just my experience, I know others find the 36T Deore fine.

Downside is the extra cost of the M665 and the fact its alloy so won’t wear as well as a steel Deore.

should also only be used with SLX or Saint chainring bolts, the heads on those are bigger

Ok, just to clarify, by the “heads are bigger”, you actually mean the bolts are longer, right? Can’t speak for the Saint, but the SLX chainring bolts (M665 and M660 – just measured both) have the same diameter head as normal – 7mm, which if you think about it makes sense or they wouldn’t fit in the standard recess in a chainring. But, they are longer (12mm vs 8mm) so that full thread is engaged despite the extra thickness of the bash over a standard chainring (or thin alu bash).

Just as an aside, my E-13 Turbocharger came with a set of longer chainring nuts, so you can still use the standard Shimano chainring bolts, and have enough thread engaged. Just another way around the problem…

By the way, assuming this is the Shimano bash from an SLX double? the next thing you’ll find is that it doesn’t quite fit the crank arm spiders of an XT crankset. You’ll need to file a teeny bit off the bash or the crank spider at each of the four arms to make it fit. Save yourself the trouble and buy an E-13 Turbocharger bash – looks much nicer too…

The bolts are fine. The bash ring holes should have cylindrical metal inserts in them that reduce the diameter of the hole.

Where did you get the bash from – should ask whoever sold it to you to give you these bolt hole inserts otherwise its not really useable…

Edit: iBaa, beat me to it…

I’m running 125 on my Trance X

Buy some drugs at Port Authority… get mugged in Central Park…see how the chosen ones live in Wall Street… see all the good west end shows a year later and with American cast in Broadway…

As you’ve probably guessed by now NYC is not my favourite city – probably a blast living there, but sucks as a visitor, my advice – save your money and stay in and watch cable…

Of course, just my opinion… :wink:

I’ve been considering similar – buying a new XTC 29er, or just getting a 29 frame and trying to re-use the parts from my current 26″ XTC.

When you look into the detail it gets expensive upgrading – its not just the forks and wheels you need to buy, but you’ll need different gearing on the 29er, different stem & bars, change all cables and hoses cos of the different size frame – and that’s even assuming you can re-use things like headset, bottom bracket, seat post etc. (which is unlikely!)

Decided it would be cheaper to just buy a new 29er XTC and sell the 26er…

If its 21 speed then you’ve got 3x on the front and 7x on the rear.

If the derailleur mechs are Shimano, you could use a pair of these Altus 7 speed shifters , or if they are SRAM then these X3 7 speed shifters

Assuming you’re talking 9-speed? I like the SRAM PG990, and if you don’t mind the ‘tango orange’ colour, CRC are doing them for 45 quid at the moment – buy a couple and use a ten quid off voucher to sweeten the deal…

Have ordered a few things from them, prices are better than Criggle (at least on the usual Shimano stuff), but they are a little slower processing the orders.

First time I bought something they did give me the runaraound wanting me to send them an image of my credit card – I refused and cancelled the order. But, I think they were just being extra cautious as my bank was in one country, my statement address in another, and I wanted the goods delivered to a third! Since then I’ve made it simple for them by using a card registered to the delivery address, and everything’s gone fine…

Yes, but you’ll need the right shifters for your mechs, as the shifters need to match the mechs – SRAM, Shimano, 8, 9, 10 speed – they’re all different!

If you can tell us what make and model front & rear derailleur you have, I’m sure someone can recommend exactly the right trigger shifters…

Is this a record for a civil and seemingly correct answer from the stw massif?

You knew it was too good to be true!

Just one small point – Shimano beefed up the plastic around the bolt holes on their M665 bash. This was a good idea IMO, as I had an E-13 bash fail at this point, but means they needed to shorten the crank spider arms by a couple of mm on the SLX M665 crankset to accommodate it.

So, if you now go and fit a ‘standard’ bash guard there will be a few mm gap between the arms on the bash and the spider arms on the crankset. You’ll only notice it if you look hard, and the bash is still held securely by the bolts, but just thought I’d let you know in case a perfect fit is important to you…

PS: This isn’t an issue with the SLX M660 triple, XT M770, or any other cranks with a ‘standard’ fitting for the big ring/bash.

PPS: It also means that if you try and fit an M665 bash to one of the standard cranks, you need to do a bit of filing to make it fit!