As a relative newbie to this testosterone supplementation thing (only diagnosed a few months ago with low T) it’s real good that some more experienced people have weighed in on this thread.

Of particular interest to me, as I’m reacting to the patches and will have to find an alternative soon, are experiences with other delivery mechanisms.

Re: Injections…

required going to the doctor for each injection and the effect was very strong immediately after and tapered way off by the end of the month

you get them every 3 weeks you start with a high week, a normal week and a low week so you’ll get peaks and troughs in your mood

I have experienced daily swings due to the patches and thought injections would smooth these out, but hadn’t considered the longer term swings due to injections.

Re: Gels…

I use a gel which I rub on my shoulders and sides of my torso

Went on the gel about 5 years ago (I apply it to my upper arms and shoulders)—it is working great and really is pretty easy to use

Sounds like that may be a better option for me then, as you don’t get the skin irritation of patches, but neither the ‘down’ weeks and pain/inconvenience of injections.

And Rocketman, I see where you’re coming from with …

i think as we get older, feeling ‘old’ is a unique experience for most of us and the temptation is to do whatever we can to feel ‘normal’ again. But really its just a change and in my opinion adapting and learning to live with it is better than a lifetime of medicine.

…but, I’ve recently moved to a new country, completed a degree and started a new career, have an eight year old daughter and a mountain biking obsession to support. This all just as I turned 50 and my body seemingly decided it was time for me to slow down and ramped down testosterone production, leaving me suffering with fatigue, loss of concentration, memory problems, and lack of motivation and drive (not to mention libido, but honestly that’s the thing I’m least worried about!) So, I do agree with you to an extent that sometimes we try to unnaturally hold onto youth. But, I also think we have inherited genetic timeclocks that are a throwback to earlier evolutionary periods and don’t necessarily have the same relevance for the modern times we live in. So, if by maintaining my testosterone levels at their pre-fifties level I can continue to live a healthy and active life for the next twenty years, then I’m willing to give it a go. But I agree with you that it’s a personal decision, and not necessarily the right way to go for everyone.

The crunch came one day when said specialist mentioned that supplementing the body’s natural production of these hormones means that natural production stops althogether

This I am worried about, and had already asked the question of my GP, and frankly got a bit of a fudge as an answer. So I’m definitely gonna have to look into this one a bit more. No point in taking supplements if the body just turns down natural production accordingly, and you’re left with no more testosterone than before, but just an expensive dependence on artificial supplements!

Glad to be of some help, and good luck with the treatment…

If you don’t mind me asking what was your level

I’m 50 and my level was 10.9, whereas normal is between 8-25.7

So, theoretically I was still in the normal range, but that’s the trouble with not having a historical level to compare, and with such a wide range – who knows what is ‘normal’ for an individual. One person’s levels can halve from 20 to 10 in a matter of a few years, whilst another’s has been 10 all their life, and the first one is deemed to not have a problem. Luckily my doctor was willing to try supplementation and see if the results spoke for themselves, which they have. We’re now working on fine tuning the dose.

Your level of 5.4 is definitely below normal, so there’s a very strong case for it being the cause of your symptoms. As I said, your doctor will now be working to determine if its a result of naturally declining levels or something more serious.

If its just natural decline, as you need a stronger level of supplementation than me, going direct to injections is probably sensible, as it avoids the issue of allergic skin reactions some seem to have with the gels and patches (me included). I’ve also found that the daily patch results in a 24hr cycle in dosage, with the maximum delivered at about three in the morning, which makes for some interesting dreams :wink: Injections should give you a more even dose over the day. You’ll still need regular testing for a while to fine tune the dose, but then you should find you’re quality of life has vastly improved.

And remember, its a naturally occurring substance in the body, and you’re doing nothing more than returning it to the levels it should be at, so there’s nothing to feel embarrassed or worried about. And as far as treatments versus risks versus effects go, it has to be one of the easiest, with lowest risk, yet with one of the best paybacks. And in fact, I think you’re going to find testosterone becoming the new Viagra, with a lot of ageing baby boomers jumping on the bandwagon to suspend the side-effects of ageing, even though they don’t have clinically low levels.

5.4 is well below normal, and would certainly cause the symptoms you describe, and be justification for hormone replacement therapy.

The questions going through your doctor’s mind at the moment is whether there is any direct cause, such as malfunction or tumours in the endocrine system, or whether its just a natural decline with age. Unfortunately the latter is difficult to establish without records of what your ‘normal’ testosterone levels were say, in your twenties versus thirties versus now, but if everything else is ruled out then this becomes the ‘default’ diagnosis.

There’s also growing opinion that declining testosterone with age is not something we should naturally accept, and that even those within the ‘normal’ range but with declining levels can benefit from supplements. Testosterone affects so many things we associate with a healthy active lifestyle (energy levels, concentration, muscle strength, drive and ambition, sex!), that you’ve got to question why anyone would accept losing this as they get older if the treatment is readily available and has very few downsides – both of which seem to be true!

Of course we’re not talking about taking levels which count as abuse which some athletes and body builders go to, just returning levels to ‘normal’, and it is after all a natural substance already in the body. So, I wouldn’t worry about the prospect of supplementing it – its simple, painless, and effective! The only real downside is increased risk of prostate cancer, so you’ll need to be regularly tested for that.

Once the cause of your low levels has been established, and if supplements are deemed to be the solution, then you’ll likely be faced with a number of choices for actually administering the stuff. There’s tablets, but ingesting testosterone isn’t the favoured solution these days. Adsorption through the skin thru gels or patches, or injection of a slowly dissipating gel or pellet into a muscle are the more usual routes. The gels and patches are daily and the dose can be modified quite easily, whereas injections are monthly or even less frequently so are less hassle, but you have to go to the doctor each time.

I was diagnosed with low testosterone a couple of months back, and have been on the patches since then. Unfortunately my skin is starting to react to them and I may have to find another method soon. In the meantime the effects have been quite marked and immediate – I’ve regained my mojo!

But, as always, my advice is just from someone you don’t know on a forum, everyone’s situation is different, and follow your doctor’s advice rather than mine.

But please file the rings, not the cranks!

Just wondering why?

The older cranks spider arms have a small ‘lip’ for the chainring to sit on, but the newer ones that take the composite rings don’t have this. So my thinking is that if the newer ones have done away with it, what’s the harm in filing it off the old ones? And, surely its better to file the cranks once, than the ring each time you replace them?

It’s a clutch, not a stronger tension spring (or at least the Shimano shadow plus is, no idea about the SRAM type2). It works by adding extra resistance to the RD cage trying to move backwards. So it only puts extra tension on the chain at the time when you’re changing into a larger chainwheel or sprocket, not under ‘normal’ running.

Having said that, I’ve used a clutched rear mech for 9 months now, and the lower jockey wheel is wearing at an alarming rate, so I’ve ordered a spare ready to swap at the annual service.

A clutch rear mech.

Seriously – I’ve taken the chainstay protection off both my bikes since I fitted clutch mechs as I just don’t need it anymore…

Sweet :D

They’re offering us Ozzie customers $20 off a $200 spend at the moment with EOFY20. I recently used an Italian and a Swiss offer, so maybe this one will work for you guys in the UK too…

Drive somewhere, park with a view, flask of tea and sandwiches. Repeat…

Time to upgrade where can I buy a 150mm from?

Have been waiting for three weeks for stock to come in, but just got notice yesterday that my 150mm LEV has been shipped from these guys

Ta – 15 Euros shipping for a 9 Euro part seems a bit off.

Yeah – but never seems to be a problem for me as I always manage to find lots of other stuff to buy to spread the shipping cost :wink:

perthmtb – got a link for that?

Yep, got it here same place I bought my LEV.

the front cable exit is a bit odd and I can see it fouling the brake lever in some set-ups

It was suggested in a review I read somewhere to use a V-brake noodle to tidy the cable exit from the lever, but I’ve since found something purpose designed for the job – it’s called a ‘cockpit pipe’ and comprises a 90deg bend with a built-in barrel adjuster.

For the price we pay for the LEV you’d think they’d include one of these…

Gushing review of the LEV and an interesting titbit about there being a carbon version in the works here

I’d love to be able to contribute to this thread, but I ordered my LEV three weeks ago and its still not in stock :(

:lol:

Either they employ particularly short people to assemble the LEVs so their tiny fingers can get inside the tubes…. or that is a very tall table :D

The bite adjust screw thing then, screw that in and out on XT during a bleed and you can get more bubbles out. Does little else !

Ah, Ok that makes more sense! Although it’s a badly kept secret that the SLX does have the bite point adjust mechanism (or free stroke as Shimano call it) in the lever, but Shimano just put a blanking screw in the hole to disable it on the SLX, to make a point of differentiation with the XT. Some clever folks over on MTBR here have removed the blank and put a normal M4 screw back in to activate it on SLX and Zee levers. Can’t be bothered myself, because as you say, does bu@@er all on my XTs anyway!

I have both, SLX are easier to bleed as the servowave bit in the lever can trap air bubbles.

??? Both XT and SLX (and Deore for that matter) are servowave. It’s a small metal cam between the lever blade and the piston – nowhere near oil or air bubbles…

I think the most telling part of all this is the deafening silence from the other party.

If it was all a misunderstanding, or a lot less serious than it looks, a simple statement from her would put it all to rest. As it is, by her silence she’s hanging him out to dry. Expect a messy divorce to be the next step…

yeah … though it is a minor annoyance that the XT axle/pin have to to be bough seperately.

Guess they’ve gotta make something look different to justify the extra few quid on the XT :lol:

@perth, sure I get it re tools, I was more thinking is the SLX pad change was tool free it would be preferable to XT. But I suspect in practice (in a cold wet dark November night ride for instance), it’s not, and the XT is better as the tool is already carried.

Yep I’m with you there, but its a moot point anyway, because the SLX and XT calipers are identical, so no matter what they come fitted with from the shop, you can choose whether you fit them with a split pin or a screw-in pad axle as you wish. For me, I prefer the pad axles so I’ve have those on both my SLX and XT brakes.

@reggiegasket as far as I know, in terms of engineering, SLX and XT are identical. The difference you mention is probably bleed or set up or pads.

Precisely!

I love a chilled bottle of Lambrusco with a Summer BBQ, nothing better! Chateau legopener one of my friends calls it :lol:

But I do find myself having to justify drinking cheap plonk to the wine snobs, so do it less and less these days :(

Don’t Tescos sell their ownbrand – they used to?

What’s with the 14 teeth??

This is the ‘capacity’ of the mech, ie the maximum difference between your big and granny ring. As you have a 26/38 your difference is 12, so within the capacity. In fact I use the same mech with a 24/38 and I get the chain rubbing on the bottom of the cage when in the small cogs of the cassette, but only in the workstand. When riding the rear suspension sag lifts the chain up enough to clear the cage. Have you only looked at it on the workstand so far – if so try going for a ride and I think you’ll find it doesn’t rub in practice…

I’ve never ever done it before- is it fiddly? Can you simply loosen with a ‘tiny spanner, tape to bars upright with (something over?) thumb over then into?

Plenty of youtube guides to swapping hoses over and/or shortening, but as always I find the pucker Shimano tech docs the best here …

You’ll need an 8mm spanner for the compression bolt on the lever, and as long as you don’t open the bleed port on lever or calliper while the hose is off, you should be able to swap the hoses without losing any oil/letting any air in. However, a precautionary bleed is always a safe bet, and worth learning how to do anyway as it’s very easy on these brakes.

Please note the rear brake is the righthand so you’d need to swap the hoses over.

Piece of pish, need to take hoses off levers to shorten them anyways, and this store sells only proper boxed retail stock, so you get all the bits you need included – spare olives, inserts, yellow bleed block and hose clamp.

Ooooo! Can we see one of distance to nearest bike shop?

Some use their intelligence to work out stuff like that while others live on a dollar a day or spend their time shoouting at each other on internet forums.

There, fixed that for you.

And is it only me that wonders how a French accent can make even a monologue on the position of galaxies sound sexy?

So who is doing the best price on slx at the minute?

This seems to be a pretty good deal, and 2014 model too – SLX

Is changing the SLX style (split pin) pads tool free?

No, not really, unless you can bend a stainless steel split pin without a tool – teeth?

Mind you, the XTs screw-in pad pin isn’t tool free either, you need an allen key, but most people are more likely to have one of these in their Camelbak than a pair of needle nosed pliers I would have thought?

Does beg the question though – how often do you actually need to replace brake pads during a ride?

a screw in pad retaining bolt rather than a split pin.

And you can buy the XT pin for a couple of quid and fit it to the SLX, as it already has the threads machined into the caliper – more proof if you needed it that they are basically the same brake just painted a different colour.

Did you check on top of the air piston? You might have found your missing oil there!

Some 2010/11 forks had a dodgy air piston seal and the lowers oil was migrating to above the air piston. There’s lots of discussions of it on the interweb and how to fix it – like here

i dont know the technical term for it but my 705 at points has been jumping to different places then jumping straight back on previous rides but its never been that bad ive felt the need to do something about it just slightly anoying as i will lose some strava segments but ive just been for a ride and i might have not bothered taking it as the ride gps after was a waste withe hardly any of the actual route i rode being picked up jumping back and forward 5-6 times in places

I think your problem is a lack of punctuation. Fix this and your Garmin will work much better :wink:

Yes, but obviously the Shim/SRAM/KMC version not the Campag one. Might also want to pick up the special pliers referred to above, as they can be quite tight to remove when new.

Don’t re-use the pins, if you’re joining a Shimano 10sp chain either use the special Shimano joining pin, or even better use another brand’s quick-link, like KMC.

Nothing wrong with Bike-discount – they are excellent, but in the interests of consumer choice I’d also suggest checking out these guys Bike-Components.de[/url]

Seem to stock a wider range of gear, and will price match the other German stores. Also seem a lot more willing than Bike-discount to order in non-standard bits, and chop and change orders after they’ve been submitted, which I’m afraid I have a habit of doing :oops:

The new I-spec ‘B’ shifters/adapters are backwards compatible to the old levers (with a special bolt included with them), but the old I-spec shifters/adapters are not forward compatible to the new levers.

So, these combinations will work:-
Old levers with old shifters
New levers with new shifters
Old levers with new shifters

This combination won’t work:-
New levers with old shifters

Confused yet? Nice one Shimano :roll:

Ok, good luck :D