NW, I’m going to wrap up here so this thread isn’t derailed anymore (apologies to kelvin).

The NHS has to change & evolve. If you’re environment changes & you wish to survive then you must change accordingly.

We as a society have to change how we view the NHS, how we use & how it’s funded.

Rasing taxes & throwing money at the problem isn’t going to fix it….we need a discussion how that is affected.

Just in case anyone is wondering…

1. I am in no way in favour of the Tory attempts to privatise the NHS.
2. I am not in favour of mandatory health insurance.
3. I am in favour of some means of means testing/minor payment at point of service.
4. I can afford health insurance but chose to use the NHS if the need suits – I am happy to be means tested.
5. I voted Liberal..

My apologies for the derail, I shan’t comment on this topic on this thread again. NW if you want to start a thread I’ll see you there. Good chatting to you.

You seem intent on absolving folks of any responsibility of their actions…even when the NHS themselves say they think folks need to…?

Just to clarify – do you disagree with any of these statements:
(they are all from NHS staff in the link)

” Often they don’t need A&E help – they just need to sleep it off” – a paramedic.
““A lot of people treat the ambulance like a free cab service,” says Ged Blizzard, director of emergency services for the North West Ambulance Service, citing a man in Manchester who rang to ask if he could book an ambulance for 11.45 in case he needed one due to drinking too much.”
“We definitely have our ‘regulars’,” says the paramedic outside the Royal Liverpool, who asks to remain anonymous.”

I love the idea of a Drunk Bus – I think it’s great & if it worked likes you said I’m fully behind it.

BUT folks do need to take responsibility for their actions & stop abusing the system, even the NHS think so.

There’s also this reinforcing your point:

“One of the challenges in A&E is to distinguish between someone who is simply drunk and someone who has been drinking but also has a serious medical problem. There is a tendency to blame every drinker for their predicament, but there are 1.5 million people in this country dependent on, or addicted to, alcohol – which is an illness. Alcohol may be legal, but it is a drug of dependence, and how we use it is a huge issue affecting society.”
Prof Gilmore, Royal College of Physicians

It’s simply not one sided & I’m glad I don’t have the responsibility to unpick it!

Food for thought NW – the NHS doesn’t entirely agree with you:

Graun link

Almost done kelvin – I’ve said all I can think of promise!

What happened to the Drunk Bus btw? Still running? If you pardon the pun!

Ah a time machine

No, it’s called taking responsibility for onself & ones actions, not discharging them to someone else..

The other thing is, as I understand it, the NHS is very good at reactive health care but not so good at proactive I.e. self care et al.

A change there could help..?

Drunk Bus

Great idea.

They don’t have any money, leave them where they are?

Spend there last bit of money on a cab home rather than on another round?

I’d be happy to pay something at point of service, even if it’s only tuppence, if it’s going to go directly into the NHS & but I resent an increase in tax when there’s still a small section of society who abuse the system & I am effectively subsiding.

I’m not saying means testing is the only way to fund the NHS but it could be an additional way – likewise lifestyle illnesses.

Incentivising folks to take better care of themselves by hitting their pockets if they don’t might be another way of helping the NHS.

Simply rasing taxes is not the answer & will not solve other problems the NHS is currently facing.

We need to have a multi-faceted approach to its problems.

Have a look at what has happened to Corporation Tax over the last seven years.

Indeed.

No. Because nobody goes out with the intention of going home in an ambulance, regardless of whether that’d cost them money or not. it’s always an unintended consequence and you can’t deter that with charging.

Kind of like increased sentencing doesn’t deter if the criminal assumes they won’t get caught- people don’t go “I’ll go out murdering because if I get caught it’s only 10 years” or “I’d like to go out murdering but if I get caught it’s 20 years, that’s too much”, they go “I won’t get caught”

Some truth in that, though according to my bro, he’s picked up plenty (He’s a paramedic in Bristol) who are just too wasted to make their own way home…should they be blocking a bed in A & E just because they’ve no self-control?

Dead simple innit…if you earn less than £11,500 a year, no tax. If you earn more than £45K a year then the excess is 40% tax. If you’re in between those two extremes then you pay 20% tax (as opposed to 30% during the Thatcher years).

Properly means tested at source.

Only problem is that doesn’t seem to work – so what do we do? How do you raise the extra cash that’s needed? The amount to money the NHS needs to function happily is, well, name a figure today & it’ll be a different one by tomorrow…

The other thing being how many lifestyle diseases can be avoided that currently aren’t because folks chose to abuse their bodies?

How much do they cost & why should others pay for someone else wilful abuse of their bodies?

It’s thorny & make no mistake, I’ve no wish to see the NHS dismantled by the Tories but I’m not convinced in it’s current state it can continue to live – regardless of how much money is pumped into it.

An analogy perhaps:

Motorways. Often jammed up. What do you do? Do you build more lanes? Well, no, that doesn’t work, just generates more traffic. So, what next? It seems, that the next best option is to try & manage the flow of traffic & folks driving habits so traffic keeps moving.

So, how about trying education to reduce the burden on the NHS?

My apologies for the brain dump!

not really, i could earn a fortune, spunk it all on coke and hookers, and be broke

Lifestyle inflicted illness? Pony up!

all rich people

That’s hardly fair though is it – means testing at point of use is surely a fairer way of doing it?

Adding to that, & again happy to be proved wrong, how many folks end up in A & E after night because they are too drunk to get a cab? I only have the stories I hear from my brother, whose a paramedic in Bristol, at the w/e most of his work is picking up drunks. Now if you had to swipe your card before a getting in the ambulance at the end of a night on the lash might you go home before you got that wasted?

Again, I don’t know how workable the idea is..

Some of the biggest problems with the NHS are it being free at the point of service & the number using it. Those 2 combined would overload any organisation unless it had bottomless resources.

Now I am in no way opining we should restrict who can access it, but isn’t it about time that some sort of means testing method of payment was used with a cap at a given %?

I really don’t know how practical an idea this is..

Interesting article on green belt & brown field sites:

Link

I’m going to look at a 27.5 ht – I want to keep the agility of a smaller bike but still have some of the advantages of a larger wheel.

The marketing BS has worked!

:lol:

I’m going to look at a 27.5 ht – I want to keep the agility of a smaller bike but still have some of the advantages of a larger wheel.

The marketing BS has worked!

:lol:

Cheers rj, I was under the impression that 29ers were the way to go.

N + 1 beckons I feel..

Is this an accurate description of Momentum?

Wiki

Nobody has anything to say on a question about wheel size & bike type??

A 1st on STW surely!

Or have I stumbled on to mumsnet by mistake??

:lol:

First in, Last out?

Quick Q re bike types…

Way back when I was pretty good & racing on a FS XC bike with 26″ wheels & was awesome. SC Blur XC & very stiff & v light.

Long story short – injury stopped me racing for about 4 yrs (quad tendon problem).

Now thinking about racing 2018, the thing is am I going to be at a massive disadvantage not being on a 29er say?

I’ve a SC 5010 which I’m taking to BCBR but I think this bike might be a bit off for shorter less gnarley XC races. I can definitely shed weight off the 5010 if the hive mind thinks it’s ok for XC.

Actually feeling a little bit of positivity about Sat’s game – may even splurge for PPV…

Maybe Her Maj is royally taking the piss

Yeah…out of her own Gov!

Davies pulls out the WTO / “no deal” card and either EU crumbles or Tories call another election

Where do you start with THIS??

1. No trade deal? Auf weidersen pet! Hari kari has never been a great tactical move – ultimately self defeating!
2. Tory gov in 2018??? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

This is so sublime you must be fing joking……….
edit: I know I asked you for some fresh stuff…..but please – have mercy! This is just TOO MUCH!!!!

Not this year but I’ll be on the Torq stand doing my bit.

What’s going on here then Jambas??

She’s obviously not listening to you!

Burn her!

The BBC leaked that the Queen was a Leaver,

#jambafact!

Come on jumbles you can do better than trot out that tired line….haven’t you got any new gags for us?

:lol:

Be interesting to see the details of the deal..

Ah usual STW double standards. It’s ok for a farmer to evade tax, but not mult millionaires

WHAT???

If they can’t survive a wee protest ffs, change the government now, hand jezza the keys

I prefer a coalition TBH – it’s actually more democratic if you think about it.

For once, politicians are forced to work with each other.

The downside is the unsavoury bedfellows one may have to have to affect a coalition……

I’ll say it now – I’ve no love for the Tories & less for the DUP, I voted Liberal.

All this endorsed and encouraged my McDonnell

Getting more & more desperate aren’t you..

You’ll lie about anything if it’ll further your own agenda – the words “snakes belly” spring to mind..

McDonnell’s words where clearly and deliberately chosen to subvert democracy which is absolutely “par for the course” with him and the hard left

Because the right are above doing such things….

Righty fing ho!
:lol:

I guess the question is how good is he & how badly do you need him?

If the answer is not he’s brilliant & he’s the only one who can do it….I’d find someone else & let someone else employ the Stormfront ****t.

Sounds very familiar thenorthwind..
:wink:

Ah baling…

I used to love stacking bales by hand – good bit of graft it was & just a touch of skill to building a good stack.

I kind of missed it went the bales got bigger even if it was a sh1t load easier!

:lol:

Go on….pull the other one – it’s got bells on it!

If you’re going to troll you need to learn be just a little bit more subtle…..2/10 & I reckon that’s being generous…

pretty sure the ‘cure’ is going to be the same whether you’ve got something viral or just simply dubbed yourself – rest harder.

This.

I’ll also add – I’m not the only one then!

About 3 wks with a sh1tty viral thing though slowly improving. Not really ill, but as soon as I’m on the bike….very annoying too – BC Bike Race is just round the corner & I’ve had a really solid 6 months build to it with not a single cold!

I picked this little bugger up after an FTP in monsoon like conditions & then riding – not resting – with it as I had a friend over from the US for a few days.

Sucks Bojo’s balls in Hell it does!

Bill Murray?