I’ve a pair of barely used Surly BFLs if you’re interested, they still have some of the rubber flakes on them, I’d be willing to do them for £100 a pair, email in profile if you’re interested (:

It definitely isn’t the tyre pressure, 100%.

On any of my bikes I find that unless the headset is completely free of friction, roughness, resistance or whatever, I don’t ride in a perfectly straight line, I just meander slightly from side to side. Given that on my fat bike I don’t think  I actually “steer” at all (if I want to go left, I lean slightly left, if I want to go right…….), anyway,  any stiffness in the headset can only exaggerate the effect.

Now, please OP, go and fit some new bearings and come back to tell us the result

That sounds like what’s happening! Weirdly, I can’t seem to find CK bearings anywhere, so going to have take it down to my LBS again, sigh. But seeing as CK seem to have a 10 year warranty, I wonder if it’s worth giving them a shout.

The King thing is what they call “griplock”, and it’s literally just the little split wedge that all quality headsets have always had. Check it out here.

Thanks for the heads up! I can’t seem to tell if I have it or not, do you know if there’s a way to tell? I have a Stealth NoThreadset?

Most of the chilkoot stuff is road ish with some gravel The Cuneo-Monaco is a TNR lite if you like…

TNR is absolutely fantastic though. I did it the 1st year.

Thanks for the heads up, I was definitely looking to do something off-road though. The Torino Nice rally looks amazing, I have to agree. It does look a bit dangerous, but definitely very fun. I’m going to find a few then pick from between them. They’re all at different dates too. The TNR, La Bouraroudeuse and the Portugal Ride all look like fantastic rides.

Have you thought about a company like Exodus? Trip to Morocco or the like with them, can be expensive compared to doing it yourself, but that way distances ridden each day aren’t daft, you will meet like-minded people and get to sleep out some nights and hotels/tent others?

You tend to find that if you ride a popular route though and you are staying in hostels then you will meet similar people, so you may ride route for a few days with one, stay at a hostel and as long as you are up for a chat and a beer, you will meet others to ride with, don’t be afraid to travel alone, you’ll always meet others because it forces you to do so, sometimes when you ride in a group, you don’t really meet others too much out side of that group.

I definitely see what you mean about going with a company or going on a cycling holiday, but that was less so what I was looking for. And given my context, I’m a 20 year old student, I was looking more to experience the world a bit than pay for a guided tour or something. And riding alone does lend you that freedom, but I guess it being one of my first trips, I am quite nervous about that. What if something happens to me and nobody knows? Something I really would love to do is just tour hostels. I think doing one of the routes like the Camino De Santiago in Spain sounds like exactly what I was looking for.

Other thing is, why not start with a 2-3 dayer in this country that is not too tough, make sure you actually enjoy the bikepacking first and are happy with set up, then once you have a few short trips here under your belt, then spread wings a bit more for longer trips abroad. Loads of good routes of that length in UK to warm up on.

I think that’s a really good idea, especially regarding the endurance aspect of it, and getting my bike setup right. I was looking at doing the Ridgeway double, and maybe following the South Downs to the sea? Any particular suggestions of routes to do in the UK? I saw a fair few on selfsupported.net!

As noted, the French Divide is a race and I think entries are closed for this year’s ride. My wife and I are doing this year’s edition but she’s starting on the Saturday and I’m starting on the Sunday. I think there’s someone else who posts on here doing it. With it being a race it’s under French Federation rules and we have to get medical certificates!

Not sure how you couldn’t find stuff about Torino-Nice on BB, I put “torino” into the search box and got over 1000 hits! As Scotroutes said, most of us were in Wales for the WRT last weekend. There’s a few of us who inhabit both BB and here.

From your last post it sounds like a guided trip might be better for you. We’ve used Karakorum Experience in the past (ten years ago) but don’t know what they are like now. The list you link to is mostly races, well ITTs, which have their own set of rules/guiding principles, see selfsupported.net for these. They aren’t the sort of event to hang around on and look at the scenery, culture and the like but of course you can tour them.

It might be a bit late but this weekend’s JennRide is probably the best introduction to multi-day riding in the UK. Plenty of pubs and cafes and the “route” has lots of loops that you can short-cut if you are running late or simply don’t fancy it. Last weekend’s WRT (Welsh Ride Thing) would also have been ideal as there’s no fixed route and there’s a Lonely Hearts Club for those who don’t know anyone or are new to it all.

I wouldn’t say drop bars are the de-facto choice for long distance but the usual MTB straight/riser bar will be in the minority as they don’t give you multiple hand positions which are a big help in reducing fatigue over longer distances.

It takes a while to build up to big distances day after day, a bit like a runner looking at their first marathon having only ever done a 5km Park Run I suppose. It seems impossible at first but you do one and the pain recedes and the second one isn’t too bad and once you’ve got a few under your belt you hardly give it a thought.

I agree, I don’t think the French Divide is what I was looking for, and to expect to able to do it out of nowhere is perhaps being a bit silly. Best of luck to you and your wife, hope it goes well!

I’m not sure myself either, I think I looked on the recent posts and after going through a few pages gave up.

I think I explained why a guided tour is probably not what I’m looking for. I mean ideally I’d just be able to find someone similar to go with. I definitely see what you mean about the routes not being the best to experience the culture with. That’s something I didn’t want to do, just ride through fields in the middle of nowhere. Like I said, I really want to meet people and have an experience.

Jenn Ride and the WRT sound fantastic! Unfortunately, I really can’t make anything before the June date, I have my final exams very, very soon.

I have a drop bar touring bike – a Spesh AWOL, but posted on here a few times about not getting along with it. Unfortunately I haven’t even had time recently to mess around with it or even take it anywhere to try and get the fit all sorted out. I do think trying my setup over a long distance is something really necessary. When riding my Surly Moonlander over long distances, my body tends to naturally fall down, and putting my elbows on the grips seems to relax my back a lot, and makes it far far more comfortable than sitting up.

I realise it’s not post 24th June but what about

https://www.thedistance.cc

as a tryout / test ride.

Fits your requirement of a social, organised, group ride with some support if it all goes wrong. I believe it’s the team behind the Dirty Reiver so I’m sure it’ll be well organised.

Thanks for the link, it looks fantastic but unfortunately I really can’t do anything before, which a lot of rides seem to be!

Tuscany trail, Tuscany road, Normandicat, Gravel 2 Breizh, Italian Divide…

Thanks for the links! But they seem to all be before my dates or road-oriented.

Try it alone, you might love it. You’ll meet more people that way and you’ll most probably find you’re better at handling it all than you expect.

If that doesn’t appeal you could try biking some of the Camino Santiago in Spain – you won’t be alone for long there. It’ll be busy with walkers early am to mid-day so take a bell, and you may not get somewhere to stay every time (walkers get priority at the refuges and gites) but you’ll meet loads of interesting people, loads of eccentric people and it’s a great route for a first-time bikepacker. Really interesting route I thought. There’s a cyclist’s route alternative and a couple of forums for people travelling on it by foot or by bike.

Being a bit younger, I really don’t feel confident on my own just yet. I also like I said, worry about if something happens to me, and nobody knows.

The Camino de Santiago looks fantastic, I saw it ages ago but forgot about it! A long trail like that was exactly something I was looking for! I think that’s what I want to do, thank you for the link!

Thanks the for the responses everyone!

It’s definitely not the tyre pressure, it’s not high nor low, just in the middle, it has a small amount of give.

Scotroutes, I’ll try sorting the headset out then. I’ve been researching bearings for CK headsets but they don’t seem to be available, though there seem to be plenty of people saying to open up the seals and clean up and regrease the inside of the cartridge.

Thanks for the response Northwind, what is that upgrade you’re referring to? I’m not sure if it is the older ones, I’ll have a look when I get home? It’s anodised racing green, and doesn’t look that old though I could be wrong.

Thanks for the response Scotroutes, while I do agree with you, I just want to find a ride to do and dive in head first. I think I mentioned before, I haven’t done any overnighters, with the longest ride I’ve done being 100km. I don’t really have anyone do it with, and I didn’t really want to go on my own, so I was trying to find a group ride to do.

I wasn’t planning on doing any drafting! But I think the French Divide is probably less of what I want to do. What I’d really like to do ideally, is to go and explore somewhere by bike. I don’t just want to race past it, I want to really enjoy it, and experience the different culture where I go. I want to less go somewhere in the middle of nowhere, but more meet all kinds of people, travellers and backpackers especially and stay in hostels. So I really don’t know how to go about that. Going by myself just leads to too many things that could go wrong, and I wouldn’t feel comfortable enough to either. But I don’t really know of anyone I could go with, which is frustrating.

Pistonbroke, what you said about wanting to ride with a partner is pretty much what I wanted to do. Your ride sounds really good, it’s a shame I won’t be able to make it.

Thanks for the links all!

The Portugal ride looks fantastic, wow, as does the French Divide! They’re very different rides, one is a group ride, the other is a race it seems, but they both look amazing. Curious question to the more experienced riders among us, on doing something like the French Divide, is it easy to find someone to ride with on the day?

The French Divide looks awe-inspiring, but it’s 2100km, which is an insane amount of mileage, and it has to be completed in 15 days. I wonder is even achievable for someone who has such a lack of experience (me!). My biggest worry in riding for so long is comfort. I see drop bars seem to be the setup of choice for long distance rides?

Definitely adding those to my list, thanks!

Thanks for the responses everyone, but it definitely isn’t normal. The tyre pressures are not low, probably at about 10 psi with a bit of give, but not that much. So I don’t think it’s the tyres.

In that case it’s probably the headset? What in the headset could possibly be causing it? When I took it to LBS they added a bigger head tube spacer and tightened it up harder, which helped a little bit, but it was still there. Took it home, checked everything, regreased it completely, put it back together only for it to be even worse, back to how it was before I took it to LBS.

I’m not too sure what you mean by minuscule amount of stiffness, sorry. I am missing one o-ring, which is the only incongruence I can notice in the headset, the one marked J in the diagram. Or it could be the bearings? The bearings don’t seem that bad, not perfect, but not awful.

But then could it be the hub bearings? urgh!

I looked at the Bearbones forum but it doesn’t seem to be very active, and I can’t seem to find the Torino-Nice, though I found it on Google and it looks fantastic, however, it’s in September?

I did forget to mention the dates I was looking at, it was from the 24th of June onwards! I found one in Greece called the Bike Odyssey which looks amazing but it’s just before then, which I won’t be able to make unfortunately,.

It’s difficult to tell based just on a single still photograph which only shows your legs in one position, which might be misleading. Neverthless…

It looks to me as if your saddle might still be too far forward and too high as well. One rough rule of thumb for saddle height is fully extending/locking the leg and still having the heel on the pedal (see page 5 of that link I posted). Looking at your photo, I doubt that your heel (in cycling shoes or low trainers as opposed to shoes with a high heel) would reach the pedal. I also suspect that it feels like you are going to fall forward if you take your hands off the bars.

As jameso said, you need to get the saddle position right before worrying about the bars. The link I posted points out how when you get the saddle position correct (or thereabouts – it’s not about millimetre perfection) your upper body will be comfortably balanced (and not feel like you are on the verge of tipping forward). Bernard Hinault said that his position on the bike was such that he could have played the piano if it had been placed where his bars were (which is simply saying the same thing). Incidentally, I doubt you can ride no handed with your saddle in that position, because your body looks so poorly balanced.

I always thought it was when the ball of your foot touches the pedal, your leg should be fully extended, not your heel.

Feeling like I’m going to fall off if I take my hands off the bars is literally EXACTLY how I felt when I was riding it.

That makes so much sense. I’ll try and get the saddle right, and I’m currently going through the link which is super helpful, thanks so much. I’m currently adjusting everything, though there seems to be only so much setback I can put.

Is this your first drop bar bike?

It is!

Saddle height from pedal surface to middle of saddle creux = 109% of inside leg measured from floor to crotch.

Slide the saddle as far back as it goes on the rails as it looks too far forward.  Why a Brooks? They have short rails and many people find them less than comfortable, try some others.

The saddle angle is nose down, if you find a saddle that is comfortable flat it won’t throw you forward and put excessive weight on your arms.

The bar position looks as if it would be fine if your bum were rotated anticlockwise around the BB. Upper arms at 90° to the body with the arms slightly bent is usually comfortable as the shoulder and arm muscles are under less stress.

I’ve tried sliding the saddle back and am currently reading the guide linked. I’m not too sure what you mean by the last bit though.

Crouch down into a skier downhill tuck, weight over balls of your feet. Now reach forward with your arms – to not fall forward you’ll need to stick your backside out more, spreading your weight fore-aft and keeping your c of g over your feet. It’s not my example, just one from a related, classic bike fitting article, the basis of balaced position on a bike. In the same way if your saddle pitches you too far fwd over the BB, no bar position can put you back in balance. Get the saddle right in the way the guide linked to up the thread describes and go from there.

Maybe drop the saddle a bit more (inside leg x 0.883, Lemond method, is about the only fitting formula I’ve found useful as a guide) and get it back another 10mm if you can, see how that feels. The bike looks about right as it is now but that’s no indication of whether it’ll be comfy for you. Bars needn’t be too low, esp if you ride in the drops a fair bit.

If you can’t get it right, look up Torke Cycling – he’s a proper fitter and will get you sorted.

That makes a lot of sense, thanks for the explanation. And if I can’t get it right, I’ll give him a look up! Hope I can get it sorted for tomorrow!

My arms feel really stretched and uncomfortable, as does my back. My arms feel like they’re in a very unnatural position. Hence me asking for a bike with a shorter TT. If the drops were where the flat section was it would be comfortable, but that’s with the raised stem. Even with this, it still feels too stretched down at the flats. I have flat bar bikes that fit me fine and that I’ve done 100km on, it just seems to be this that’s the problem.

Thanks for the tip Shermer, but I think the nature of this thread has changed more from, what bike should I buy, to what the hell am I doing wrong?

The thing is though, your bars are still very high, higher than the saddle. You shouldn’t really be bending your back alot, rather rolling your pelvis forward. Having the bars too high might prevent your from doing this as you’ll stop yourself with your arms. Your saddle could well be too high aswell, which won’t help things either. This is a more extreme position but it kind shows you the shape. No big bends in his back.

Thanks for the reply. I think I get what you’re saying. My back shouldn’t be bent but rather it should be leaning forwards? I tried moving the stem further down, but it’s still really uncomfortable. I took a picture of a my posture on it, to try and draw a comparison with how it should be. How do I look?

This is a crazy amount of advice, just want to say a huge thanks to everyone for being so helpful. I’m sorry that I didn’t get round to replying to everyone.

I took onboard some of the advice here, and spent nearly the whole day messing around with different setups. I put a setback seatpost on, the original one it came with, and experimented with a range of different size cockpits. I tried a 45mm stem, then tried it with a headtube extender and brought it all the way to the top, which looked ridiculous. I tried it in a range of positions, and none of them seemed to be remotely comfortable. I even tried putting further down in increments, to all the way down which was just much worse. I then tried the 60mm Specialized stem and it only seems worse, the bars feel even further away. The irritating thing is, I’m supposed to be doing a 100km ride on this thing tomorrow!

Otherwise what about a Genesis Tour de Fer? They come in drop and flat bar options and the geometry is a little shorter than the Awol. Far cheaper than a Salsa as well!

The Genesis bikes are really good value for money, especially compared to the Salsas, it’s ridiculous how much they are now. I was looking at the Tour De Fer, and it’s ETT is 547, which is pretty much 550, so there’s not really any difference.

A few things occur to me, although they may not apply to you or be the reason for your fit problems:

– The bars are well above the saddle height. Although it’s not an absolute rule, I would generally not expect the bars for most riders to be above saddle height even for a leisurely touring rider. Are you particularly inflexible or do you have a large gut? If so, you might find that addressing these issues (pilates or other exercises, or losing weight) will improve the bike fit/comfort.

– Flat pedals with STIs is not a common combination. Are you riding with the balls of your feet roughly over the pedal spindle? If your feet are positioned much further forwards on the pedals, I suspect that may be a factor in your problems.

– 55cm does seem long for the top tube, although according to the Specialized website the bike is specified with a relatively short 5cm stem (presumably the long top tube was chosen to increase the front centre measurement and minimise/avoid toe overlap, especially if mudguards are fitted with wide tyres).

– I am sceptical of the shop’s bike fitter’s assessment. I suggest you have a look at the advice on bike fit in the link below, which was written by two people at Spa Cycles (one of the authors posts on the CyclingUK forum as 531Colin, and the link is in his signature), which might give you some ideas about whether and how to adjust your current position.

That’s a really good point about the bars being at the wrong height. I have never seen anyone elses bars like this, which indicates that I’m probably riding it wrong, or doing something wrong. I really don’t notice any significant disproportion on my body, nor am I unflexible or overweight (I’m 55kg).

The balls of my feet are roughly at the centre of the pedals, yes. It’d be painful to cycle otherwise I would think.

Thank you for the link, I will go through it, though I’m not sure I’ll have a chance before my ride.

All of the advice below is given on the assumption that you are a relatively normal, healthy human being with no major debilitating conditions.

With road bikes and drop bars, you need to set the bars LOWER than the saddle, otherwise they ride like cack. Generally, the taller you are, the greater the difference in height between the bars and the saddle. If someone tells you otherwise, they don’t have a clue and are talking bollocks so ignore them 😉

Put your bars higher than the saddle and you’re forced into an upright position, putting your weight in all the wrong places. An upright position is fine for a shopping bike, notice that shopping bikes have swept back bars which provide comfy hand position for sitting upright.

As for the saddle, the main gripe everyone seems to have with Brooks saddles is you need a seatpost with LOADS of setback to get them in a comfy position, yet here you are with yours mounted to an inline seatpost?

Yes, your bike is probably a touch too big for you. But that is not the cause of your problems. Buy a bike the correct size and set it up like you have and you’ll have exactly the same issues. You should be able to get your bike to fit properly, but it might require a slightly shorter than ideal stem with a steeply sloping negative angle. A top tube that’s too long doesn’t mean the bike won’t fit, it just means it won’t handle quite as responsively as it should.

I’d say you’ve got two options: fit some shopping bike bars and enjoy a bike for cruising round town on. It’ll be awful for any proper road cycling though.

Or, set your bars lower than your saddle, put a proper seatpost on and then go and see a decent bike fitter who DOESN’T measure leg angles.

Thanks for the advice.

I tried setting the bars lower than the saddle, but that makes it really uncomfortable and forces me to bend my back a lot. Thanks for the advice on the saddle, I’ve tried putting a setback seatpost on to see if it makes any difference, but I haven’t noticed anything drastic.

I didn’t realise measuring leg angles was wrong? The guy was really helpful and seemed to know what he was talking about.

OP – are you local to Richmond? If so my partner is 5’3″ and rides bikes including drop bar bikes. We could arrange to meet up somewhere mutually convenient (in public) and we could show you how we’ve made bikes work for her and maybe talk about how things can be made to work for you. If that sound interesting then PM me, I have reasonable level of confidence that there’s a solution to get you happy on your bike

That’s incredibly kind of you! I’m not local, but in London. If I don’t manage to sort it out, I would really appreciate that! I’ll let you know, if that’s okay? Thanks (:

Go flat bars. There’s a thing in this country about touring bikes – everyone seems to think they have to have drop bars but in Europe it’s almost the opposite.

I’ve got short arms and my Genesis TDF was a drop bar bike I converted to flats – I’ve got some 17 degree salsa bars on it and it’s ridiculously comfy.

I may just have to do this. I have a set of Salsa 17 degree bars lying around actually!

Odd one.

I’m the same height as you, as is my Mrs and we both fit her small AWOL fine with the standard stem.

Definitely try some shallower, shorter bars, they might just make a difference.

It is really odd. I think I must be doing something massively wrong.

It looks to me like many of those bikes will offer a more comfortable position riding in the drops than on the hoods.

So maybe the AWOL was not designed with the intention of being set up for riding in a classic position with much lower bars and  hands on the hoods (despite being fitted with STIs which would normally be mostly used for riding on the hoods).

I get what you mean, but I don’t see how bending down into the drops for a long period of time could possibly be comfortable.

my mate has a genesis croix de fer alfine 11, a lovely bike, but although it fitted him properly, he never found it very comfortable. So he took off the bars and shifter, removed the brakes and bought some shiny new kit to replace them.

Carbon dh bars, with bar ends and ergon grips, alfine sti shifter, zee brakes.

sounds like a dogs breakfast, but works brilliantly.

I may just have to do something like this, but I do worry about pouring more money into this, which has already cost a fair bit and doesn’t seem to be getting anywhere.

People are saying 550mm TT is long for a small bike – based on a std ~100mm road stem and 80-90mm reach bar yes, but a 60mm stem and 70mm short reach bar gives a very different fit. STA affects things a fair bit too. 550mm for a 5’5″ rider can work fine, TT length is only a part of it.

Awol is designed for big tyres and guards and the ISO std for toe overlap limits how short the TT can go, unless you go silly slack on the HTA.

Look at reach, and start with a saddle that’s more sensibly behind the BB. A Brooks on an inline post will mean you’re falling forwards however short the reach is. Maybe see a better fitter who works off balance not leg angles and all that formulaic stuff (he may be very skilled to be fair and you may have unusual proportions, I don’t know, but as soon as a fitter mentions perfect leg angles I’m out – esp if that ‘perfect’ angle comes from a saddle and post that puts you ~50mm further fwd than is common for a comfortable fit)

I feel like you’ve hit the nail on the head there. Comparing it with road bikes with a shorter TT that is designed for use with 100mm stems is pointless.

I couldn’t agree more with what you said about the inline post making you feel like you’re slipping off. That’s exactly how I felt riding it, and I had to have the seat at such a steep angle so I wasn’t falling or slipping off. I mentioned this to the fitter, and I’m surprised he didn’t catch onto this. He just said that I’ll be putting pressure on my nether regions with the seat at that angle.

You are all genuinely worrying me with your opinion on the fitter, because he seemed very knowledgeable and was lovely. I mean who do I listen to? I put the saddle back a bit which seems to have helped with the seating position, but not with my arms or the cockpit unfortunately.

The link Slowster posted has some good advice in it. Everyone has different methods but that’s as good as most. ^ this bit is key and OPs saddle set up might be the cause of it, as the linked document explains. If pedalling on flats with the foot well fwd on the pedal that is also likely to be linked to a well-fwd saddle position, all compensating for the saddle being n the wrong place and having a knock-on effect on wanting the bar to come closer.

I had a very similar problem with my Krampus, I kept trying to get closer to the bars, and I ended up with a 45mm stem with a headtube extender in order for it to be comfortable. For some reason, I tried setting the seat back, and I put a 100mm stem on it, and all of a sudden it was comfortable. This suggests that I’m doing something really wrong here, but I’ve tried a lot of different combinations and can’t seem to get anything right.

I have tried quite a few stem options, and ended up settling on this. I bought a headtube extender and a 45mm stem, but it produces much of the same results as this combination here. Raising the bars definitely helped a huge amount. There are no bars with any significantly smaller reach than this has.

I know it does sound really crazy. And I don’t get how no drop bar bike would fit me. But he seems to really know what he’s talking about. The 35 degrees was an angle between something, which is the ideal angle, I’m not really sure either.

I really don’t seem to understand. I was thinking it might be worth going to another LBS, where I can try on bikes. There’s Richmond Cycles in London, who seem to have a great range or Surly/Salsa stuff which is kinda what I’d want – an adventure touring bike.

A Jones bar is an idea! I’ve never tried one, they look much too expensive to even try unfortunately. He suggested selling it, and reckons I would get a fair bit for it rather than investing more into it.

Edit:

Yeah, the 450mm is ridiculously small. I didn’t realise 550 was ridiculously long though. Maybe it’s worth trying a drop bar bike with a shorter TT, apparently the AWOL is really long. Also, I absolutely love your custom bikes, they’re amazing!

Wow, that’s crazy if my AWOL is as along as your 58cm Cube, wtf? I was looking at the Salsa Marrakech and Vaya and they seem to be roughly the same length though.

Thanks Shedbrewed! I’ll give that a go, though I do worry about undoing the bearings as I’ve never really worked with cup n cone bearings before.

You need to change your HDD for an SSD.

@scotroutes

I’m glad you asked!

I’m going to go out properly after I finish my exams in June, for now I have a few 100km sportive lined up to practice for longer rides which hopefully should be a bit of fun, one is in two weeks!

My idea was to do a route locally, as in nationally first, then try and find one somewhere abroad, however the typical destinations for bike packing look far out of reach.

The first route I’m looking at doing is the Ridgeway double, which starts from near London, which is perfect for me. There’s the North Downs from there, and then the South Downs way which goes all the way to Eastbourne, but seeing how close it is to Bath and Wales, it might be worth heading there instead.

I saw the Highland 550 which looks amazing, but I worry about going somewhere so remote.

What I really wanted to do was go somewhere abroad, Spain looks fantastic and there are a fair few routes there but I worry it will be too hot cycling there in the summer. I’m not quite sure where else to look that isn’t too far away geographically.

@flowerpower

I bought it from an LBS new on eBay, who were selling off their old stock. I’m surprised it’s so much everywhere else, compared to how much I bought it for!

@Denis99

Sounds great! How does it ride?

Wow, that is surprising. Sorry, wouldn’t feel right disclosing that, they might have a go at me!

Thanks all! I kind of like the look of it too, but I’m not too sure about the orange yet, though I’m sure it will grow on me! Darn photobucket have disabled direct linking, so reuploaded the pic:

Really really enjoying riding it, and I can’t wait to properly take it out when I get some time.

@scotroutes, if the bb is too high, doesn’t that lead to quite a strange unstable feeling on the bike? I think it’s okay now after adjusting the seat and stem a bit. It only has a 5mm drop more than the Surly Krampus, so it really must just be me imagining it.

It’s amazing how much difference 1.5″ in wheel diameter can make to the bike.

Ask your LBS. Mine got mine for £100 an end for me.

Hey all, the bike arrived today, which was super exciting. New bike day is the best day!

I put it together (thankfully the gears and brakes were all set up, shout out to the framed bike co, who have been really great), so only the fun stuff was left. It was chucking it down, but I took out for a ride anyway, and I was having so much fun I didn’t want to come back in! It feels really comfortable so far (finally a bike that fits – I think!) and it rides exceptionally well. It feels like so much fun to ride, and I felt almost addicted! Being a shorter stature, I think the smaller wheels suit me a lot more. It was also a lot lighter than I thought it was going to be, I was pleasantly surprised, though it definitely is no lightweight.

Bad points:

I didn’t catch onto the fact that the Joytech hubs were not sealed, but rather ball-bearing, which did turn out to be a disappointment. But honestly, at the price it was, I really can’t complain. I’m very surprised by the fact that it had GX kit, Nobby Nics and Tubeless rims for the price it was. And the frame feels fantastic. It doesn’t feel heavy at all, and the tubing feels pretty light from what I can make of it. And I really like the look of the forks to be honest, despite not liking them in the pictures.

The BB seems unusually high. If I put the seat to correct height, whereupon my legs are nearly fully extended, my feet get nowhere near the floor and it feels downright dangerous! I didn’t have this problem on my Krampus which is interesting.

Thanks for all the help everyone, look forward to really getting out there on it!

Love the website OP, will definitely spend some time on there! Off the shelf frames are becoming so much now, it might be more economical to get a custom titanium one. It says quite a lot about the prices of frames that custom titanium is cheaper. The Surly Ogre frameset has gone up to £750 a piece, last I was looking at custom titanium frames they were about £500 each.

Mega cool bike by the way. Very jealous! Waiting on my 650+ hardtail, it’s in the post!

Bought it! Got it for £465 all in! Super excited, hope it meets my expectations! :D

@woody2000

Thanks for the report, you make it sound pretty decent! I can’t believe the fork has a fork brace on it, and they still had to recall it?! I really like the look of the Surly forks.

@flange

I think I saw your posts on the fork recall thread.

It’s really disconcerting that’s it’s so heavy and that you’re thinking of changing the frame, the frame would be the main thing I’m buying it for personally, otherwise I’d just get an Alu hardtail. I’ve definitely had that experience where I’ve spent a lot of money on making a bike better but don’t like it that much.

I think for that much I’ll just give it a go, and if I don’t like it I can sell it on for 400 pounds or something? And the fork is the replaced one, it’s actually the 2017 model! :)

@gowerboy

It is awfully disappointing when that happens, I’m sorry to hear you know the feeling. My Moonlander is fantastic, but the offset wheel annoys me, and the fact that I can’t run it with anything smaller than 4.7″!

I really wish there was some way I could try a 27.5+ to see how it fits. Cheers to TimP for offering (:

@shedbrewed

Everyone keeps saying it is really heavy, which doesn’t sound ideal. My Krampus, while being steel, and having a Dynamo hub is still very light to me.

It’s amazing that it comes with Tubeless rims, Nobby Nics and Sram GX at that price. I’m really tempted. I was just going to buy it, then I figured, why don’t I give my Krampus one last go.

I changed the saddle on it to a Brooks, and this seems to have completely changed the riding position, and it actually feels reasonably comfortable now. I’m not too sure about the 29+ wheels for all day riding, as they do seem fairly big for me – I’m 5’5″.

Here’s a picture of the Krampus. I’m still tempted to go for the Pine Mountain. I wish I could be put out of my misery, I’m so torn. It’s really frustrating, but talk about first world problems!

@Scotroutes

Thank you, that’s really kind of you! If I do, I’ll definitely get in touch! The Highland 550 looks very interesting, but I do worry about the extent of it’s self-supported nature.

@TimP I’ve never measured my bikes, so I unfortunately have no benchmark with which to compare 30lbs! My Moonlander and Krampus are surprisingly light though. The fork does look really heavy, especially with the bridge it has.
That’s really kind of you to offer, thanks! Unfortunately I am up in London. How does it ride?

@drewd The fact that despite being an odd standard it’s still usable makes it a lot more appealing. If I did like it, I’d eventually want to put a Dynamo on it. It’s a shockingly low price, lower than most framesets. I’m very tempted but still not exactly sure.

@gowerboy

The ECR was very heavy as well. It’s tubes weren’t actually too big, but they felt very dense. I do wonder whether a 26 x 4 might be preferable to a 27.5 x 3. It’s very confusing. I wish I had a chance to try them all somehow! Buying a bike without trying is such a gamble. I bought a Spesh AWOL for just over a grand from my LBS without trying it and hugely regret it. It’s really stiff and doesn’t even fit me properly, much too big, despite being a small.

@firestarter I definitely don’t want the aluminium frame!

Scotroutes, it’s lovely to hear from you! I’m not sure if you remember me, but I definitely remember you.

I definitely see what you are saying. I finish college this year and have a long long break before I start uni, which I’m already looking at routes for. I’m honestly really excited. I’m hoping to find some group rides, but foregoing that, I’ll just find some routes to do on my own. I don’t know about thousands, but I definitely plan on doing a good few hundred!

@cp, wow I am very tempted in that case! Should I go for it?! My other concern is, does it really look like a bike you can put thousands of miles on around the world?

@gowerboy

You really get what I mean. Maybe I should just give the Mainlander a go? It’s fine for short trips, e.g. 60 miles, but I worry at how feasible it is doing longer ones on it.

Funny you mention the Ogre, I had an ECR, which I would expect is similar to the Ogre in the sense of it’s build and stiffness, and I found it ridiculously overbuilt. It felt completely dead and the ride was horrid unloaded. I sold the frame and ended up transferring all my stuff to a Krampus, which has a much livelier ride, but like I mentioned the geometry just doesn’t work for me. I worry the Ogre would be similarly overbuilt and dead to ride.

Thanks for the responses all. The upgradability of it does slightly worry me. I’ve never seen a 141mm qr length anywhere. I really wanted a decent bikepacker that I can do some serious trips on this summer. I would much prefer to build one from the frame up, as almost all of the completes come with bits that won’t really last, unless you pay an extortionate amount. And shame to hear it’s that heavy, that really doesn’t sound good!

The Genesis Longitude does look fantastic, but the problem is I find the ETT too long. I was looking for something at about 570mm with a slightly more relaxed geometry for all day riding. I have a Moonlander which is so perfectly comfortable, but its tyre size is too overkill. On the other hand I have a Krampus, but at 585mm I find it to be too agressive a ride and very uncomfortable. I’m 5’5″ and have them both in a small.

I can’t seem to find anything with a relaxed geometry, 650b plus and steel at a reasonable price. It’s really frustrating! There is the Kona Unit, which is availible as a frameset from Jenson USA for ~$600 hmmm. But then it’s sold as a bike for £600 here, but that’s SS. But the dropouts are replaceable. But the parts look terrible!

Huge condolences OP. ): Hopefully everything will be okay with the insurance.

They even took out little one’s balance bike

I really can’t comprehend the mindset of someone who would do this. It baffles me.

Surprised no one’s mentioned this, or maybe they have and I’ve missed it, but Maxxis have 50% off and BOGOF on a fair few items on their UK site. Just ordered a pair of Chronicles to try on the Krampus!

Thank you!

Johnnystorm, honestly for that much I’d rather just buy a new crankset.

Thanks Kaiser, I’ll give him a go if all else fails! Really enjoyed reading about his builds.

Cozz I’m very interested in it!

My issue is that there’s no point pouring almost as much money as it costs to buy a new crank into it, especially considering that they will probably discontinue it soon. And then there’s the principle of it!

Thanks for the link! I actually have a pair of Raceface Atlas 100mm cranks (for 170mm spacing I thinj) and they nowhere near fit. I also tried an e13 fat bike crankset for a 170mm rear end and the clearance on the chainstays was less than a milimetre. I think the thing is to go with ones with a wider axle, hence the 120mm ridewill ones, but not sure if it will fit. Might be worth a punt?

Too tedious, even for STW? Well that’s a first!

Will get on the facebook group if I don’t hear back, thank you both for the advice!

Didn’t even think about the Facebook groups! Will have to have a look, thanks. Is the forum mostly dead then?

I find it really unusual how the admin needs to approve every single member? I hope my meeting won’t take too long then!

Thanks for the recommendations everyone! Had a look at them all, and think I’m gonna go with the Ourys or Odi Rogues. My hands sweat a ton during summer riding, and I hate wearing gloves so need something that has spacing in between if that makes sense. The Rogues look perfect, just hope they’re wide enough!

The thing I don’t like about my E4s compared to my M4s, is that they seem much harder set up and get the alignment with the disk right. The clearance is so narrow, and it has to be pitch perfect, and you can’t just grab the lever then bolt on the caliper to align it. It becomes a real hassle and an annoyance, as it’s not perfect, they’re still rubbing a tad.

That Alpkit Frontier looks fantastic, just wish it was steel or carbon! :( Broken Road looks great, but way out of my price budget.

Holy Christ that’s a good deal. Making me want to build a B+ bike!

I bought the 3000 lumen light from C&Bseen for £65 and it has been amazing. It honestly sounds a bit too good to be true, even came in a nice little zip up carry case?? It feels very well built and came with one of those wireless switches too!