Bump, also curious if there’s anything going on!

The rear rack mounts on the seatstay is the best thing about the bike. Looks amazingly stable. If it wasn’t AL – Steel or Carbon I’d be lusting after it even though I have an AWOL.

Fargo framesets have got jolly expensive at £1000 or so now. A steel frameset/ fork with the same geometry and tyre capacity as a Fargo would surely be possible at £3-500

Not to derail the thread too much, but I will never understand what has happened to Salsa (and Surly) pricing in the UK in recent years. It’s absolutely ridiculous. Who is going to be paying silly money for a standard cromoly steel frame set? Surely they’d make more money from lower margins and higher volume? And also not completely rip-off their customers in the process.

Love my AWOL but will have to agree with the above comments – it is really overbuilt and feels very heavy. I’m at the point where there’s not much more I can do to reduce weight – it’s mostly in the frame (and the Brooks saddle). It’s definitely a purpose built touring bike made for carrying big loads but I doubt many people will actually use it for that all the time. I bought it with touring in mind, and have done some multi-day trips on it, but 99% of my rides are not. Hence there probably also wasn’t such a big market for it either. In hindsight, I would have gone for something like a diverge. I would swap but I’m very used to the geometry, especially the more upright position and find it comfortable. Just spent about £450 upgrading the brakes to hydraulic GRX/Hope RX4s, ‘hope’ I’m not going to regret it!

The price of the GRX shifters are equal to the Tiagras, but wasn’t too sure what the major differences were. Will just get the GRXs I think.

@sb88

Thanks for the advice r.e. touring and the TRPs! I adjusted them myself and took them to LBS to get them to replace the cables but they said they’re working as best as they probably will, and it’s not sharp enough for me to be honest, so just going to get the Hydros.

I’m not touring anytime soon – that’s for the summer! But will be doing a few long rides probably.

Since the opinion on here doesn’t seem to favour SRAM, will give it a miss. Are they that bad?

Just going to get the GRX 10 speed shifters and Hope RX4 calipers. I saw the Shimano ones but the Hopes look better to be honest, and I’m happy to pay the extra.

@JoeBristol, thanks for outlining the setup of a Di2 system – something I was very unaware of! For some reason I kind of assumed that it would be plug and play. If I’m honest it sounds not only like a lot of money, but also a lot of work. Part of me just wants to be able to get on the bike as soon as possible! I’m going to be riding it in central London which is the main motivation for getting Hydraulics – my cable brakes are awful and I want to be able to stop as soon as possible. Think I might just put that to the side for now and go with some 10 speed Hydro Levers and Hope RX4s if I can get my LBS to set it up for me.

@pdw, as someone who has no experienced with SRAM (and also very confused by the lineup) that is not very reassuring! I think your suggestion of Tiagra levers is probably the best option and it means full compatibility with my existing drivetrain too. The deal from Bike24 sounds fantastic but not sure if there’s any point if I’m going to replace the calipers. But it seems about the same price in the UK without the calipers!

@Oblongbob Given the price of those adaptors it would be the same price to buy Hope RX4s instead! I do like the look of the GRX shifters though, and they have them in 10 speed – the GRX 400s. I wonder how they compare to Tiagra given that the shifter sets are approximately the same price. Shimano seem to state that they’re directly compatible with the 10 speed Tiagra road set.

Thanks for the advice r.e. the 11 speed cassette. I’m running a DT 350 rear hub. But will probably end up going with 10 speed just to save time.

@boblo I just find them to be nowhere near the level of braking compared to hydros I’ve tried out, even when they’re set up properly by the LBS. I’m just talking light touring so 2X is more than enough to be honest with you.

Just been reading this review of Di2 and RS785 and the author mentions that they managed to get 750 miles for the Di2 battery to come down to 50%. If that’s true, I doubt there’s any worry of the battery running out. Probably almost certainly won’t be serviceable though if something were to happen, like a simple mechanical system.

Honestly at the price it is with the shifters and calipers, it is an absolute bargain and if I was to buy the derailleurs, it would probably cost me the same amount as if I was to buy a standard 11 speed groupset. Might just get them if you’d recommend it and can attest to the battery life comments?

I think I agree, I can’t imagine there being much difference between 10 and 11 but people on here are always going on about it.

To be honest I’d rather just get hydros than try and bodge it.

Thanks for the heads up r.e. the shimano calipers. Honestly the price difference isn’t that great so happy to just get the hopes. I think my confusion is whether or not to keep my 10 speed Tiagra, or whether it’s worth upgrading to 11 speed?

@Joebristol, you make the Sram shifters sound really good, especially if you felt 105 was a downgrade in comparison. The RS785 is Di2 which is my only issue. I’d rather not charge things especially as it’s a touring bike. They actually have a pair of the shifters and calipers in post mount for £260 which is an absolute bargain, but it’s Di2 which is my issue:

https://www.probikekit.co.uk/bicycle-brakes-and-pads/shimano-st-r785-hydraulic-disc-brake-di2-sti-s-pair/11211776.html?affil=thggpsad&switchcurrency=GBP&shippingcountry=GB&variation=11211777&shoppingpid=TOP10_200718_&&thg_ppc_campaign=71700000073341592&gclid=CjwKCAjww5r8BRB6EiwArcckCyGRKP8ppEYSixslmh-jBbee4h5sPC0nCzKmVtuyzuefcz4_cjihqxoChbcQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

I was considering just buying standard Tiagra 4720 10 speed shifter/levers which would work with my existing groupset and just buy Hope RX4 post-mount calipers. I just don’t know if it’s worth upgrading my current Tiagra 10 speed to something better while I’m at it. There’s also the GRX 10 speed levers too which are also around £200.

Paisley Freight were great for me. Very reasonable prices compared to most other couriers and no problems.

I think I might have to move the cleats back even though it seemed more comfortable. The position was previously on the ball of the foot.

@swanny853 That makes a lot of sense actually, and might explain why my knees are in so much pain all of a sudden. Didn’t think such a minor adjustment would make such a big difference. Will try moving the cleats back. Hopefully this knee pain will go away (I haven’t ridden since), but it doesn’t show any signs of it.

I’ve never had this problem before, done similar mileage a week before these rides (also 100km) without any issue. Same bike I’ve had for years, just started to get into road cycling a bit more. I think it might be as swanny said, my knee reaching and extending too much for the pedal stroke to accommodate for the reduced distance. Funnily enough though I didn’t seem to feel any pain while riding – generally if something is off you can feel it.

Thanks for the responses guys.

Just heard back from him, he seems serious enough and was very understanding. Understands my concerns and is willing to leave bank card, passport and phone along with his bike. Feeling a lot better, hopefully should go okoy.

Agree that it would feel very shady if i was buying a bike at a service station. Not ideal but just having him come home.

Avoiding cash due to covid. Bike worth north of a grand.

Appreciate the responses guys!

Not sure they’re coming to buy the bike just yet – will probably be cashless via paypal so cash unfortunately out of the question. did consider a paypal deposit but what good will a few hundred pounds do if the bike is selling for much more – they could just end up with a bargain.

He’s said he’s riding to meet me, so no chance of having a car unfortunately. LBS is crazy busy so I doubt they ‘d be happy to accommodate. Also wary of inviting them home but not sure what else would be better.

Considered asking for a debit card or something but could be a dud one. ID a good shout?

The gravelkings seem like a good shout to be honest, think I’ll just go with them. They even have lower rolling resistance than the voyager hypers at lower pressures. They do a plus version with additional puncture protection, I wonder if this will affect rolling resistance that much? Will probably end up getting those.

The issue with the GP5000s and some of the other suggestions is they’re 32mm, which wouldn’t normally be an issue except my rims have an inner width of 25mm – KOM i25s. The minimum recommended tyre width is actually 42mm according to WTB. Found 35s okay, if a bit sketchy on sharp corners, but definitely wouldn’t want to go narrower.

Aside from the fact that the Jack Browns are 33mm, this going to sound rather snobbish but honestly don’t fancy getting a pair of cheapo Planet X tyres. Would rather spend a bit more, plus they also seem to be gravel oriented.

I just wish the mainline road tyres came in 35c, there seems to be seldom many options unless you go touring style. Largest I can seem to find are the GP5000 in 32c.

Thanks for the responses all. A lot of the the tyres suggested seem to be gravel tyres, and I worry that the increased grip and knobbliness of gravel tyres will lead to slight increases of rolling resistance on the road. Not really intending to ride off road, this is for a road only bike. Riding with some folk who are quite fast with their carbon wonderbikes and don’t want to lag behind too much!

Was hoping to find a pair of road slicks that simply come in a slightly bigger size.

Voyager Hypers are discontinued unfortunately, have found them to be fantastic so far and only ever had one puncture.

The Conti GP5000 look great but I can’t seem to find them in 36, the smallest seems to be 32c.

The Strada Biancas and the Gravel King’s look great, but they share my same concern with them both being gravel tyres. The GKs look fantastic in tan-wall, are they really as fast at the Voyagers? Might be tempted to grab a pair in that case.

I have heard great things about Rene Herse tyres but they are way too much for me to spend unfortunately.

Thanks for the responses but they both look like gravel tyres, was looking for a road oriented tyre.

@trailwagger I don’t want to get tyres that are slower than what I have. I can hardly see that as being unreasonable!

Thanks for the advice daern, as someone new to wheelbuilding it’s much appreciated!

I have heard the tip of using oil to coat the spoke threads as opposed to anti-seize, I’ll try giving that a go – I’ve been reading the Roger Musson book and he doesn’t reccommend anti-seize anywhere, but oil instead. I have 3 in 1 oil, hopefully that will be okay. I do wonder if grease would be better, but I don’t even know..

That spoke driver looks like a fantastic tool. I can really see how much easier it would make lacing the spokes up, all to the same length. I don’t have a dremel on hand, and not sure I’d be able to get such a tool in time unfortunately, but it looks pretty neat.

Thanks for the responses all. Turns out I’m a bit of an idiot and forgot to accommodate for the spoke hole offset – the difference in-between spokes on the rim, and got the rim ERD off by 0.5mm which made a notable difference. The new figures I got and what I rounded them to are:

Front Wheel: NDS: 263.3 -> 264, DS: 264.8 -> 264
Rear Wheel: NDS: 265.5 -> 266, DS: 263.4 -> 264

I’ve ordered the spokes (hope they’re not wrong) and the Park Tools stand, hopefully all will go well with the new ebook as my companion!

Also, according to my LBS, anti-seize is a prerequisite for threading the spokes in, but there’s so many different kinds I’m at a loss. Park Tools, Shimano, Copper anti-seize, aluminium anti-seize. Gah!

That’s still fairly far from me unfortunately.

I think I’m just going to give it a go myself. Purchased the Roger Musson Ebook and I’m not too sure how well I’d be able to put together such a stand, so I’m just going to get the Park Tools one as an investment

I’m just purchasing the spokes but I’ve run into a bit of an issue, if anyone might be able to help out. The spoke lengths I need for the front are 265 and 266.9, and for the back, 267.8 and 265.1. Looking at getting the ACI Alpina ones from Cyclebasket, but they only come in even lengths. Would 266 instead of 265 be okay, and 268 for the other two?

Cheers

Thanks for the suggestions. I’m not experienced at all with regards to wheelbuilding, so I really wouldn’t feel too comfortable doing it on a self-made jig, as I’m not sure how accurate it would be. I’ve only ever trued one wheel myself, on someone else’s stand.

SBC Cycles looks like a fantastic bike shop but unfortunately is way too far for me :(

Got a StumpJumper FSR 6fattie Medium frameset I’m looking to sell if that’s of any interest.

Good lord, 5 months is a long time for a pre-order! Was about to place an order til I saw it.

Great, I can finally try some. The UK prices for the Jones bars are taking the piss.

The Hypers have been great for me, apart from one incident. I wasn’t even moving, just standing there on my bike, and then out of nowhere they started to puncture. Not really sure why this happened, someone suggested it could be due to the heat – it was in the high 30s. Now they’ve got a hole in them, and I need to get a new set. Looking at the Marathon Supremes, the Marathon Greenguards just look too heavy. Funnily enough, the tubeless version of the Supremes weighs more than the standard folding one.

I have a small Krampus with a dynamo setup I’m going to be putting up soon if there’s any takers..

Good lord that’s a steal at £179. Wish I managed to pick one up!

I’ve already got the original ones built on different hubs so I don’t really want to dissect it to be honest, will probably just sell them on.

I saw the Exal DC19, but not to be snobbish or anything, they just seemed way too cheap and I was very sceptical. Spa Cycles do a dynamo wheel build too which would save me some hassle as I was going to buy the hub from there anyway. The ML21 looks okay but it’s rim brake, and I’d rather go with a disc one for aesthetic reasons. I’m also thinking it might be worth getting one that’s tubeless ready as well.

The Superstars look good but I was looking to go with something a bit more proven and tested.

I was looking at Mavic and DT Swiss but there’s so many models I really don’t know which ones to go for!

I couldn’t agree more with regards to the UK pricing. It used to be a fair bit less and has recently seen a significant jump in the last few years.

I adore my Moonlander a tad too much! Here it is on some cliffs – probably really shouldn’t ride there, nor take pictures at the same time:

Also, selling my Small Krampus and will be going up in the classifieds soon if anyone’s interested. Hope rear hub and brakes, Thomson and Salsa bits, XTR and XT, and an SP Dynamo upfront.

Honestly, I’d be far too concerned with regards to safety to ever risk it. I wouldn’t say it’s worth saving the extra £50 or even £100 over a reputable brand given how severe the risk could be. I’m sure you already know this though!

What a coincidence! I just came on STW for the first time in a quite while and saw this!

I decided to just purchase a Brooks B17 rather than delay any longer, the go-to touring saddle as the B67 is clearly for a more upright position and attempting to persevere with it is futile. I actually had a ride lined up – London to Brussels, which I found a week and half before it started. I bought the saddle, and didn’t really have any time to get used to it before the ride, but from my initial impressions, I really liked it. I messed around a little with the seating position, placing it further back, and used a 50mm stem to negate the long TT.

I kind of just threw myself in the deep end, and for the first two days of riding, more than anything, my arms hurt massively. Funnily enough, one of the girls I was riding with, she had just bought a drop bar bike, and had the exact same problem. We guessed that maybe we just weren’t used to the position, and on day 3, the arm pain disappeared almost completely as my body gradually naturally adapted to the new position. So a lot of my fit problems were fixed, and I think what some of you said was correct – I just wasn’t used to the position. Also, I really have this aversion to wearing any sort of spandex/lycra, despite the insistence of almost everyone I know who cycles. So prior to going on the trip, they forced me to take a few pairs of cycling shorts, but after the middle of the second day, good lord I needed them. I don’t think I couldn’t have done it without!

After the first two days, I was fine riding for miles on end, and at the end of the day, I’d want to ride more, because I just couldn’t get enough of it! It’s almost addictive. I had a pretty amazing time – I’ve wanted to tour for quite a while now and it far surpassed any expectations I ever had. Usually we dream up something so big, it can never live up to any expectations, but in this case it went far beyond them. What made it really great though wasn’t just the place – it was the company. I think it would have been a very different experience doing it alone. I’m trying to find some more rides to do this easter break!

Oh, and I just need to get a pesky dynamo wheelset built up for it now! Can’t seem to find one anywhere so it seems I’m just going to have to shell out and build it up myself.

Hey zilog, it’s just a one off trip so annual won’t be necessary. Cycling there and getting the Eurostar back.

Thanks for the response jkomo, they look fairly decent, it’s coming up to around £35 for £1500 bike insurance. Sports cover goes up to £55 for £1500 cycle insurance so it’s significantly better in that regard.

Thanks, will do guys! They’ve just ran out on amazon prime so will have to get standard shipping ):

Thanks for the response StirlingCrispin, I think I will get a B17 actually, my only worry is that the B67 is already so comfortable, so it’s a bit of a change, and I’m not sure it will be as comfortable!

Thanks for the recommendation Craig, it looks great for commuting, but I’m not sure how sturdy it would be for off-road riding.

Midlifecrashes, cheers for the recommendation, but it’s pretty much a Caradice one, and looks quite heavy. Also, the measurements are odd, it states that it is 118cm long and doesn’t provide a carrying capacity?

The best I’ve found is this https://dragonfly-gear.com/product/large-saddlebag/ but including shipping it’s around £120. Might just be cheaper to get the rigid B67 and a normal saddlebag… but so much more trouble! Would be fairly lighter too I guess.

Ha! It’s what I have and find comfortable. In hindsight I would have bought the non-sprung version. It’s not exactly a full on enduro mtb either, if that’s what you’re thinking of, it’s a rigid steel Pine Mountain.

Hey all. I tried the above advice, and messed around with a much longer adjustable stem, put it at saddle height (it was higher) and tightened the brooks saddle (I kept feeling like I was falling off) and it feels actually really comfortable now! I’m really happy.

I’m going to get a longer stem, but what I’m really stuck on is, how do you determine the correct stem length to buy? I can’t seem to find any decent advice on this anywhere. I’m not sure how long I should go.

Tri bars on mths are mostly about reducing long term stress on your hands and wrists. Few riders on a bike with mtb geometry can put out effective power in that position so it’s mostly for rested cruising, eating while moving etc. Crap position for control though.

It looks so comfortable for long distance though, and so many long distance riders seem to get them, I think I might have to try them! But I’m a bit confused by what oldnpastit said about mashing up your lower spine.

oldnpastit that sounds awful, and that is a horrendous image you’ve painted there, of mashing up your back. I’ve seen a lot of long distance riders on things like the Tour Divide use them though, Mike Hall used them I think, and so does Lael Wilcox.

Cynic-al, that is it. The upright bar position is really comfortable for a few miles then my back starts to want to naturally lean in. I think you may be right there. I tried out my Krampus which as well as being much longer, I have a 90mm stem on, and it was a different fit, but still comfortable. It’s really confusing though to be honest.

40mpg, I see what you’re saying, but it doesn’t hurt in my core at all. It’s more my back.

Ghostlymachine, I really have, and it’s honestly incredibly frustrating! I still haven’t managed to sort the AWOL out, just stuck it in a corner and trying to ignore it for now. At least till I finish my exams..

What makes you say that? They specifically said it wasn’t the same design.

I have a non-boost QR Alpkit Juice hub. When I got it the specs and dimensions were identical to the SP equivalent hub. I assume they are near to identical. I got it for a big cycle tour across Europe and it has been used since on my commuter since so its probably done ~8000Km without any issues or bearing changes. My only concern is when the bearings do need changed, that it is not easily user serviceable. How helpful Alpkit will be with this down the line, I’m not sure. Saying that I’d buy another one. Caveat though that mine has not been used properly offroad.

I did see that originally the Alpkit ones looked extremely similar to the SP ones, but the weight is 14g more for the Alpkit one, though the flange measurements look very similar. So I’m not too sure what this one is, but they said it’s  not the same design? I’m glad to hear it’s been very reliable though. I’ve heard there were problems with the bearings in the boost version of the SP Hub which they rectified in an updated model. Something that worries me that there’s no information on it regarding things like efficiency, and when I asked them for that some information I didn’t get a response.

And exactly long distance bike packing. I already have the SP and a Revo on another bike, which I absolutely love, just want to get one for my new bike!