This is a case in point. Most police drivers don’t end up in pursuits as they are only trained in the initial phase and it is specifically trained drivers who pursue people if the reason is sufficiently serious for example if they are a danger to the public. A huge number of police pursuits are stopped by the police exactly because it is too dangerous to continue! Your perception of what happens may not be accurate.

Edukator if you ever get robbed or knocked off your bike by a driver who tries to make off, think about how quickly you might want me or a colleague to come to your assistance. I never intended to pee you off or make you feel belittled. If you’re near London you can always email me and come on a drive at work to see if you think I’m safe or not?

I said you know nothing about police driving not driving per se. That’s not condescending, it’s true. The vast majority of police driver training is about observation and hazard perception, not just driving fast. Which is exactly what you are advocating. Not sure I get your point tbh?

Edukator – you also missed my point about not being over confident and driving beyond your ability. I don’t think you quite appreciate the point I was making and I think you may have taken it a little personally. I wasn’t trying to have a go at you. Just suggesting that statistics were being manipulated to support an ill thought through argument.

Now that study. Firstly thats talking about police pursuits, which you correctly identify are highly dangerous and therefore very carefully managed and frequently result in the police ending the pursuit. That is completely different to response driving. Even if the pursuit results in a fatality it does not automatically follow that the police driver was at fault.

I’m not suggesting the police are perfect or that the training, especially for standard response drivers, could be more rigorous. But you are talking about a subject that you clearly know very little about.

Edukator although your argument that police driving standards are lousy is as typically sophisticated and nuanced as most police bashing that goes on STW permit me raise a couple of issues with that report.

Firstly – those statistics and that entire article are based on reports from the Daily Mail. Despite me being typical violent, fascist, stupid, racist, jobsworth police officer I distrust anything reported by the Mail or its stable mates.

Secondly – those statistics are collisions ‘involving’ a police vehicle. Let me do some of the work the reporter hasn’t and give you a better understanding of the way in which such stats are compiled. Say for example I’m on a blue light run in a marked police vehicle and I approach a red traffic light. I treat the junction as a give way and slow to a standstill. A vehicle coming from my right reacts to the lights and sirens and slams on his brakes a little quicker than he needs to. A cyclist then slams in to the rear of his vehicle and hurts himself. That would be a collision involving a police car, although it wasn’t my fault as the police driver. Let me give you another example. Someone parks a police riot van in the yard of a police station and grazes another police vehicle as he’s reversing. Thats recorded as a collision involving two police vehicles! Shockingly bad driving from everyone involved and a totally unacceptable risk to public safety. Let me give you one more example. Say a police vehicle is in a pursuit with a stolen moped. The police vehicle keeps a safe distance in the hope the moped rider stops and gives up. The moped rider takes a wrong turn and ends up at a dead end. He crashes the ped and jumps over the side of a pedestrian bridge, not realising its actually 20 metres up. He dies. This would be treated as a fatal collision involving the police. Those statistics make no mention of who was to actually blame for any fatality or collision. The police invest huge amounts of time and effort in improving standards of driving and the investigation of any collision involving a police vehicle is very rigorous.

I’m also not entirely sure that comparing the general public like for like to a group of people that have to drive at high speed, in pursuits or who come in to contact with intoxicated or criminal drivers is statistically sound. Are you suggesting that if the general public were given blues and twos and asked to drive at full tilt everywhere there would be no resulting increase in crashes? Personally I think only the Daily Mail or someone a little soft in the head would look at it in such a simplistic way.

Mud-x

Eric 64 I don’t like jam. Do like a nice coffee though.

I think a huge number of people mistakenly think they are great drivs as they have nothing to compare it to and any instruction they have relates purely to passing the test. Not only that, butdriving safely with any speed on the road is a completely different skill to being able to get a car round a track quickly. I say this as a class 1 police driver and someone who has done quite a few track days. I’m lucky that i get to thrash a job car around because it means I can pootle about in my own car without feeling like I’m missing out on any fun. I’ve also been unfortunate enough to turn up to a number of collisions where poor driving has cost people their lives. You should never overestimate how good your car control is or underestimate the stupidity of other road users.

I passed on my second go, the nerves have a massive effect on your performance so it’s not really a true reflection of your ability.

I’m an advanced police pursuit trained driver now. If you think your driving test was hard try being assessed three times a day whilst giving a running commentary driving at 100mph plus chasing a police driving instructor who occasionally slams on the brakes and starts reversing towards you at high speed.

You can always get a pair of shoes re-soled in stealth rubber. Don’t have to be five tens. Feet First do it.

I arrested 3 of these fraudsters after they conned nearly 3 grand out of someone. I can confirm they are not that hard to outwit. Very very satisfying day at work though.

PVF is closely linked to M.E. Would be worth looking at the M.E Action website for further advice and guidance. My mum suffers badly from M.E and has been bedridden or about the last 15 years. As for dismissive GP’s refer them to the latest advice from the BMA and suggest they read up on it before you report them.

If you want something different then don’t get another five! My mate has a Heckler with pikes and it rides really well. Obviously H/A will be slightly steeper but coming from a 2004 Orange will probably still feel a bit slacker. The Transition looks like a great bike. Yeti ASR5 maybe?

I really enjoyed MBR when I went in the summer. There’s what looks like a fairly new jumpy/bermy section which was fantastic. The climb up the road hurts the second time round though!

It is entirely possible to be a victim of violent conduct without inviting it or inciting it. However swearing at people isn’t going to reflect terribly well on you either. I was the victim of threats of violence without any negative behaviour on my part. But I would always recommend calling police and make it clear that you are being physically threatened. I deal with conflict and violence a daily basis but it’s always better to call the police and explain what’s happened in a calm manner. I wasn’t suggesting squaring up to someone and using physical violence if you can avoid it. Hoewever the law does allow for a pre-emptive strike if you are genuinely in fear of your own or another’s safety. The obvious caveat is that it’s for a jury to decide if the force was reasonable in the circumstances.

I had a taxi cut me up at 5am the other morning at a cross roads. He immediately started shouting and screaming at me and got out of the car, which he left in the middle of the junction as I rode past. I stopped and he pulled out a tyre iron from the passenger seat screaming about me getting some lights. I pointed to the light on my handlebar, 2 lights on my seatpost and the joystick on my lid. He carried on screaming and came towards me with the iron bar raised above his head. At this point I pointed out my warrant card, informing him I was a police officer and that he would be spending the rest of his day in custody.

However, the best thing to do would be to loudly call the fuzz giving the best description that you can and walk/ride away.

These kinds of things tend not to be a one off. People like that need to see there are consequences to that kind of behaviour.

I certainly don’t agree with the way in which the OP chose to respond. But he’s obviously annoyed by the service he’s received from Apple as I think most of us would be if we had paid for a 3yr warranty. Frankly taking the side of a multi-billion dollar behemoth thats screwing someone about just amounts to a bit of a wind-up. And they are amazingly common on this forum. Quite why, I don’t know?

Further to the above answers from people who have a brain. Regardless of the necessity of obtaining a taped interview under PACE there are a number of forensic samples that would have to be taken. For example clothing for blood pattern analysis, hand swabs, nail clippings, DNA sample, fingerprints and body mapping of any defensive injuries to the homeowner. The only way to do this is to arrest the individual. In the circumstances there is no way of knowing what happened and being able to gather evidence lawfully and efficiently. So there was no other option open to the investigating officers. If it turns out that he was using reasonable force to defend himself and his property then he will not face any charges. Amazes me that so many laypeople think they know exactly how the police work because they watched an episode of the Bill once in 1998.

You Sir (or madam) are a mentalist. This is almost as idiotic as the rubbish spouted by EDL

Mix up tamarind paste, chilli powder, brown sugar, lime juice, soy sauce, fish sauce. Chuck it over stir fried veg, marinated tofu and chicken/prawns and some pad thai style noodles.

I stand corrected 😉

From what I’ve been told the inquest will concentrate mainly on the time he was contained by firearms officers onwards. Although details of phone calls he made in prison and evidence of suicidal tendencies have already been discussed and appeared in the news.

GJP – Member
Nonsense – Member
Think you’ll probably find Moat may have suffered from a Personality Disorder rather than a treatable mental illness. In any event I don’t think he was actually shot by AFO’s with anything other than a taser round. He actually shot himself in the head. Might be wrong though. Or I might not.

I think you may find that (Borderline) Personality Disorder is a medically recognized mental illness

Now at risk of taking this splendid thread off topic, but you started it, or maybe I did? 😉

I take it you are diagnosing him with a specific borderline personality disorder?r As opposed to the huge mess of other disorders all lumped generally under the umbrella “mental illness”. From memory of other threads you’re a GP? Under the latest revisions of the mental health act I believe that NHS trusts are obliged to deal with untreatable personality disorders but it doesnt actually follow that they are recognised in the same way as other more easily treatable mental illness such as schizophrenia. I think it probably comes down to semantics and and pedantics. I think someone on here is an approved social worker, maybe we should ask them seeing as how they get involved in sectioning people on a daily basis? Or you could read this.

Article

Think you’ll probably find Moat may have suffered from a Personality Disorder rather than a treatable mental illness. In any event I don’t think he was actually shot by AFO’s with anything other than a taser round. He actually shot himself in the head. Might be wrong though. Or I might not.

Another vote for Magura Louise Carbons. About a hundred gazillion times more reliable than the avid juicy carbons that eventually imploded. Even more reliable than the Shimano Deores on the commuter.

Kato the job IS ****ed. 😉

Lizard Skins Chargers are really comfy as someone else said, provide nice cushioning without adding too much extra bulk. Out of interest are you using carbon or ally bars?

Had mine about 4 months and a fair amount of riding, including up/down Snowdon. Shortened the hose easily, it’s been faultless so far.

Just for clarity. Parking restrictions and the enforcement of parking fines and/or towing are nothing to do with the police (with a very few exceptions)

I just did it on Wednesday. Went up Llanberis path and came down Rangers. Although went down zig-zags through stupidity (although worked out ok as we cycled straight back to Beddgelert). Be prepared to do a fair bit of pushing/carrying on the ups. Make sure you take pads for the descent and check your brake pads too for that matter. It’s very rocky going down the Ranger and you can pick up speed very quickly on bits of it. We had fantastic weather. Started at 6am and off the mountain well before 10am.

I also noticed they had a set of 5 chainring bolts for the special offer price of £37! This is a real bargain when you consider the rrp is about a tenner.

I think Yeti seem to come out quite long and that new 66 looks lovely.

The IPCC aren’t “pro Police”. Hence the name Independent Police Complaints Commission. Read some of the reports on their website. The vast majority of complaints against the police are baseless, spurious, or relate to incivility. There is a significant difference between someone thinking the police are rude and someone being charged with a criminal offence.

Got to be that Saracen. Fantastic deal. Or this Canyon

This thread is a perfect embodiment of the STW Forum.

A post from someone asking for legal advice from a website populated in the main by IT professionals. A few intelligent, well meaning responses from people that don’t really know what they are talking about but are very good with google. The odd utterly moronic comment. Deep mistrust that any police officer could be intelligent enough to ever do anything correctly. And a couple of posts from someone that knows exactly what he is talking about but is largely ignored.

In summary:

The caution, a notice of intended prosecution and “a caution” are all completely different things. The driver would have been cautioned prior to giving her account of the incident which would have been recorded and probably signed by her at the time. A NIP only applies to certain traffic offences and can be given in writing within 14 days or by a police officer at the scene verbally. However it does not apply when there has been a collision. So it makes absolutely no difference in this case. Cougar you should think about becoming a legal rep. If you have managed to flip a car over in to a field completely clearing the opposite carriageway it’s not hard to see that your driving standards may have slipped slightly. It probably wouldn’t take HD CCTV footage, CSI style forensic analysis and the witness statement of a high court judge to get this lady convicted of careless driving. Unless of course the magistrate(s) are clinically retarded.

Plus the course she is going on is a LOT more useful than the stupid speeding awareness ones they send people on.

Yes!

Take a lot more cleaning though …

Like years and years ago. Do you train down at Abridge then?

I used to play for London Tiigers back in the day. Not played for a good few years though.

Bike in a stand, wrap hose in tissue or rag and push/twist at the same time. Goes on easy with bit of patience and brute force.

With freshly fitted and trimmed Reverb seatpost.

GSuperstar – just being nosy and saw the paintball vid you posted as well. Do you still play at all?