What exactly is the benefit of a Norway type relationship compared to our current position?

I read something about the blue oval, roaring like the hounds of hell, bull upon its crown, new fires burning being a reference to Gee Atherton and red bull/ford rally team. His recent results in rallying have been better than his DH results!

Given that is process if a lose:lose

It’s the uncertainty that’s the lose:lose. I can’t see an extension to brexit happening.

Equally I can’t see a soft brexit satisfying those that voted for it. So I think hard brexit it is. Probably after 2 futile years of Boris on his knees begging for something that looks like a ‘better deal than we have now’.

THM it wouldn’t be the first time I’ve been mistaken! Happy to be corrected.

http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lisbon-treaty/treaty-on-European-union-and-comments/title-6-final-provisions/137-article-50.html

I understand we can discuss extending the time frame and withdrawal agreement, but it all defaults to 2 years and hard brexit if we can’t work out an agreement. So really, we’re in the hands of those people who’ve had to put up with Nigel Farage for the last 7 years. How nice will they be whilst trying to discourage other members from doing the same thing we’ve just done?

We had 3 choices:

1, Stay as we were, with option of changing things from inside the EU.

2, Soft brexit of some kind, that can only be less favourable than what we have now, ie all the bad bits and less of the good bits. Less impact to the economy, we can claim we’ve left the EU, but we relinquish all the control we had.

3, Hard brexit, really bad for economy in the short / medium term, tough times, but at some point it might be better, or not, no one knows.

Why the **** did we choose option 2 or 3?! I honestly still cannot fathom the thought process that made option 1 the least appealing.

Where does it state that?

Paragraph 3

The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

We have 2 years to plead with the EU, or its hard brexit. If they don’t want to be nice (why would they after all the recent f*ckwittery?!) we leave with no agreement on a future relationship ie hard brexit.

But there is no negotiating the terms of us leaving. Article 50 states that we are leaving in a full hard brexit.

The terms we are talking about are the terms for a trade deal effectively, that’s going to take more than 2 years to do it properly. It certainly isn’t in the EUs interest to do it quickly, they’ll draw it out and make it obvious to all their current members that they are in charge.

We think we have a choice! We think we have taken back control! Oh how the EU laughed….

All this talk of parliamentary scrutiny of the plans for brexit, there are no plans for brexit. More importantly, there can’t be any plans for brexit as we can’t negotiate until we’ve issued article 50. I’d argue we can’t even negotiate with the EU then, it’s more a case of we’ll get what we’re given, assuming that’s anything at all. It’s a complete and utter clusterf***!

“Taking back control” my arse.

The Lakes Distillery seem happy for campers to stay on the back carpark. A bit out of Keswick, but awesome food and drink.

I smashed the screen on my Sony z1 compact so wen with a Xiaomi Redmi 3S, it cost £120 and works better than the Z1. The camera isn’t brilliant but it’ll do.

There is no Chinese apps on it, just miui 8 which works really well.

I was really struggling to find a smaller android phone similar to the z1 compact. The Redmi 3S fits the bill for me.

I bought a frame from Keswick bikes about 9 years ago, good advice, good price and great service. Once I realised I could fix / replace things myself easily enough I bought 2 2nd hand bikes. Bought a bike from Rose bikes 2 years ago as nothing could compete on price. Don’t think I’ll ever buy a bike local, wrong stock for me and too expensive for something I consider disposable.

When I reread it, I see where you’re coming from! My mum never went back to work (odd supply jobs now and then) after I was born and my dad had to retire for medical reasons in his mid 40s, so was on disability. So I guess money poor but time rich would be a better description. The camper van was a scratty old thing that kept breaking down, parents and 3 kids crammed in it for 6-8 weeks at a time. Really good times and happy memories.

Argh predictive text nightmare! Obviously I meant bivvie and Adam Brayton not Drayton. Stupid phone!

That’s also ace, would love to Bobbie on the top!

As a kid, we used to go skiing in Scotland in a T25 transporter, five of us camping in a braemar carpark in february. No room for wet ski boots indoors so they had to stay under the van where they froze solid. I still remember the dread of putting those boots back on again the next morning.

One year the camping gas froze inside the van, reckon it was about -18 inside.

Both my parents were teachers so we’d spend the entire summer holidays touring Europe, all half term holidays in Scotland and Christmas down south visiting relatives. I still feel I had a privileged childhood, despite my parents being poor.

Campervans are ace!

I’d love to see Adam Drayton riding it…

I reckon it’s look proper ace if filmed from a drone from the north. See the ridge in profile, a rider flying down it with derwent valley behind.

My favourite ride last year was a solo after work on a beautiful midweek evening in may. Parked at the base of ullock, dash falls, back of skiddaw, latrigg then up the front of skiddaw and back down ullock. I saw 2 people on the main skiddaw climb but no one else the entire evening. Absolutely awesome few hours. The lake district is ace, especially if you can avoid the crowds.

The thing is, you could buy a newish van and convert it into something very similar to the California for much less, and pick you seat coverings, your kitchen unit, the hinges/catches, the colours, etc. I completely agree that a California isn’t good value for money (especially in the uk) there are so many reputable convertors that you really can get what you want for significantly less than a California.

Go to one of the van festivals to see the options, you’ll be surprised how much you get compared to a standard Vw spec California.

For example http://www.uberbus.co.uk

OP – the clue is in the name… VW California, not VW Scotland. The fact that it is £60k is irrelevant, it’s designed for temperate climates not the rain soaked, midge infested soggy climate of Scotland.

Buy a base van, get it converted to your spec, save £30k and enjoy it.

I picked up an 18 month old van, 27k miles on the clock for £13k, conversion for anywhere between £6k and £15k depending on needs. Much less if doing it yourself. They seem to hold their value well.

£60k for a California is a bit ridiculous, but £20k for 2nd hand builders van converted to the spec of your choice is far more realistic. Im dropping T5 off on Saturday to get converted, can’t wait! :D

I use the Aggressor on the back, it’s a good tyre! The Doubledown carcass is nicely thick, but not too heavy. It is a bit gripper than I expected, but that’s compared to my previous knackered tyres. Id say ideal for an alps / finale trip.

I’ve got a fast Co3 damper stuck in a set of 2010 Boxxers I got for £100 in the classifieds.

It rides great! So much better than the original motion control, but cheaper than the r2c2 damper upgrades would have been.

If i had known I might have waited for the charger damper upgrade instead, but i bought it about 2 months before they were announced.

I followed the instructions on thehive website, using the partool crank extractor and ripped the threads out… Bugger. I’ll keep using them till the BB wears out, then instead of spending £70 for a new BB, I’ll put my old SLX cranks back on.

Ah, I wasn’t aware things had changed in England. Thanks for the info!

I understood that the only bodies who can issue fines are the police or the council. anyone else can’t fine you, just charge you. So if they take you to the small claims court then it’s for loss of earnings. So not really worth their efforts.

I had a parking eye ‘fine’ from a local tesco, I just ignored it, the letters got really really nasty and unpleasant, made you think bailiffs were waiting outside to pounce. It went away on the end.

Any one have experience with dual position pikes and tokens?

I’ve got 1 token in, 25% sag at about 85 psi. I weigh about 80kg.

I must admit that I don’t get fat bikes (or even plus sized). I can’t quite work out what all the fuss is about. I can’t quantify what makes them better.

But then I’ve never tried one. And fun is pretty difficult to quantify! So if people enjoy them, then go for it. I’ll be watching with a puzzled look on my face trying work out why.

If leave wins, the only silver lining is that bojo, ids and Farage will not stay in politics long after the economy comes crashing down around them.

Will 4 years before the next election be enough to see the damage that has been done?

It bugs me that the idiots we’ve been sending to represent us ie, Farage and Co, pretty much opted out. The EU is not perfect, but it pisses me off that the same people who want out are the same people that couldn’t be arsed trying to make it work

Interesting article looking at the numbers…

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2016/jun/03/brexit-how-can-the-same-statistics-be-read-so-differently

I also wonder why people continue to believe Farage. In his job as MEP he is ranked 746 out of 750 in performance. I’m assuming that’s based on time spent, involvement, discussion, etc.

So in his job, he is incompetent or at best, not interested. Why do people still think he knows what he’s talking about?

It’s like taking advice on which stocks to invest in from a stockbroker you know to be crap.

No wealthy country would join the EU today, none. If it was so great how come Norway or Switzerland has never signed up to the whole shabang ?

Not now they wouldn’t, the terms aren’t the same and they wouldn’t get the same say on things that we enjoy. The question is more why would a wealthy country in the position of the UK even think of leaving the EU? I’m certain Switzerland would swap with us in a heartbeat. But then they’ve got the hindsight of being in our position, choosing to leave and suffering a massive recession for 10yrs and begging back in with a much worse deal. They still have freedom of movement, still have the EU standards imposed and still pay €250m a year for no say in any of it!

I might also be a little biased, but the Brexit campaign seems to be the lazy option. Those that have done their research or are actively interested in politic/economics tend toward the remain side.

“them bloody foreigners” almost seems to the default answer and it takes a bit of thinking to get past it…

What would be your approach to selecting people for Jury service ?

Seems fine as it is, the jurors are spoon fed information by experts, jailed if they don’t show up, bias/racists are actively excluded and you’re likely to be held in contempt if you openly don’t pay attention. It’s a shame the referendum doesn’t follow a similar process!

There has been some good discussion from both sides on this thread which is great to see, but am I the only one who is appalled at the ignorance of the general public on the issue?

I wasn’t sure which way I was going to vote and after a large amount of research I’m 100% remain, but I’m happy that other people have different understanding of the issues and might vote the other way. But it really **** me off that members of the public can vote on the basis that “I bet farage is a good laugh in the pub” or “I don’t like the idea of the Syrian migrants landing on our shores, so I’m voting out” I mean – really??!

There should be a voting qualification test before you’re allowed to vote, answer 5 simple questions about the issue, get 80% correct and congratulations, you’re eligible to vote.

He was hoping for just under 22 hours, looks like he’ll do it well under. Legend!

Crusader kings 2, it’s like all the interesting bits out of the total war series without the (eventual) tedium of the battles. Plus it’s fun changing history!

And football manager, I’ve banned myself before I end up divorced…

Careful with the edge 25, there’s no 1 second recording so it’s not the best on wiggly mtb trails. No worse than a phone, but no better.

Scottoiler for me, works a treat. After a ride, rinse with the hosepipe and it’s like a new chain. No idea how it can work so well!

+1 for the RSP carbon bars. Cracking value.

Or superstar lithium carbon bar with 25% off at the moment