I know  a french organiser of long distance events…..there’s generally a need to contact every commune his events pass through….

Negligence could be adding in a particularly steep, dangerous trail that’s out of character in the event or not taking out a badly damaged broken up road,

I’d be more worried about street furniture related to cycling infrastructure based on previous relevant experience…..;)

Was actually recounting the story last night. Seems a long long time ago.

You’d (IMO) need to make sure that proposed route did not take people on roads/ tracks that are closed to the general public for safety/ liability reasons….you could make reference to such sections  between X and Y taking the obvious track on mapping previously having been used in previous editions but are now closed by the municipality due to the risk of rockfall for example……

The avalanche risk by riding a potential route out of the usual time window should also not be underestimated….this is actually a real fear of mine…people think riding up and down a col which is still closed for the winter is a heroic feat, without being suitably knowledgeable and experienced to assess the risk….

Y reg? Why Reg?

Sacred Economics by Charles Eisenstein is the book global megacorps should have at the top of their reading lists…

It’s a human interaction, and your communication of <I do not wish to engage with you . End> can be a very simple and a respectful one. The person that deviates from that is interacting in neither a simple or respectful manner. Respectful: no need to be disrespectful of them.  Simple: by not being simple you are transmitting a confused message. All of this is my viewpoint.

I’ve heard the biggest easy win for most is to change bank to one that invests more wisely.

I can actually believe this.

Has anyone read Charles Eisenstein’s Sacred Economics?

I could write lots and give my opinions (lots)  on this. However I don’t have the energy or motivation to.

However. As a resident of France for the last 16 years, and not in expat honeypots:

-I’m not convinced there’s a big difference between poverty rates in France and UK. Whilst I’m not discounting there is a lot of poverty and more and more people are struggling, we in developed countries are actually living in a period of Decadence.

-In France, generally we eat seasonally. It can get a bit frustrating at times…

-Anything with any element of process in it is I feel expensive, and generally not as branded as in the UK

-France isn’t tied up in class isms with regards to choice of supermarket or whether buy and eat organic etc. Re. organic it is (in my experience) purely down to ‘can i afford it?’.

-Our veg and fruit, generally is by weight not by plastic bags (observation by my 14 year old french born daughter on a visit to UK to see Family)

-People generally stick to meals, and restaurants are shut at non-meal times

-Sauces ‘and sh*T’: the number of jars of sauces, condiments etc.at my parents in UK was jaw dropping: their fridge is full due to them. Yet my Mum is controlling my dad in terms of the amount of salt from the shaker he puts on his food (gout…): the night we turned up he was having shop bought fishcakes and baked beans… I think the only things I have ‘sauce wise’  are jam, pesto, ketchup, vineagar.

-Lot less opportunity to eat/ snack out: you want a coffee: go to a café. There won’t be cake….. we were at a park and ride car park to go into Norwich last week, and both my teenage children asked why there was a café at the car park….

The Pizza airstream caravan in Sault shouldn’t be missed……hmmm actually maybe that’s my weekend plan with my 2 teenagers. Could do with some southern evening chilling.

So much great riding in the area. Gorges de La Méouge is one of my fave swimming spots.

Sault to the summit is fine on 42:17 fixed ….admittedly beyond Chalet Reynard there might be the occasional grimace. The descent to Maulacene is probably the hardest bit doing it like that.

Being a few hours drive from me, I only ride Ventoux at night. It’s purely magical like that!

When in Bedoin pop in to CafeduCycliste and have a chat with Luc, and tell him Dan says hi….My Head Shepherd of lots of great long distance adventures.

Most reliable vehicle and the most charismatic 4 wheeled vehicle I had was…..

A Citroen C15 back in 2003 onwards. Many alps trips. Weekend winer hits from Sheffield or Newcastle to Scotland.

Trading up to a series of Berlingo vans and then car version Berlingo’s after that felt like moving to something highly technical and over-designed.

Love simple me.

Absolutely tjagain.

I’ve bumped Sam Harris’s ‘Moral landscape’ towards the top of my reading list.

There is an old newsnight clip of him on Newsnight with Paxman etc. on You tube when the French law came in.

Amnesty International: Face Recognition

I wouldn’t say it was misguided. In seriousness and to be clear about my stances, because I am worried I have given the wrong impression,  I am against any kind of prejudice or discrimination. I also believe in freedom and that people should be able to express themselves how they want: if that means wearing something then so be it. Where it may be forced on them by others/ their culture/ their religion etc. is tricky as how much of it is their choice.   What is also tricky is their country telling them they are not allowed to wear something: whether that be a balaclava when out in the local plaza, or their religious clothing on the beach. And the reasoning for controlling what they can or cannot wear is often mixed and we can’t be definitive about the reasoning: which i think we have proved today.

And to be even clearer: by ‘tricky’: I mean that I see valid arguments raised by the various sides in such debates, and the reasonings for such rulings are again not always crystal clear.

There is a view that a society/ religion discriminates against women by making them cover their faces. There is also a view that not allowing women to cover their faces due to their religion is also discrimination.  I’m fairly sure I’m not the only one that is not sure about what to agree with. I think this is repeatedly such a hot debate because of this.

faces are attached to heads….if we have no head as Douglas Harding suggested then face coverings are covering nothing…

Think I best had check the label on that tea….

Herbal French sourced tea only :)

[kilo]

kilo

Full Member

mugsys_m8

France can hide behind lots of cultural baggage to ban religious stuff,

Perhaps the sad thing is that the UK that it has lost it’s culture (al baggage).

That sounds like the sort of shite rioters at southport would come out with.

Good point. A different perspective to the one I had when I wrote what I did, and from my reading, it could imply a moral and political stance to one at 180 degrees from my own. If I understand correctly, similar situations can lead to to misunderstandings in the term of populism and its supporters.

<and I only wrote the 2nd row of the quote above. The bit that starts :”Perhaps…”. The line above that starts: “France can” is the one that I was replying to.

mugsys_m8

France can hide behind lots of cultural baggage to ban religious stuff,

Perhaps the sad thing is that the UK that it has lost it’s culture (al baggage).

That sounds like the sort of shite rioters at southport would come out with.

I don’t have a wife. If I did you probably wouldn’t know her, so you wouldn’t be able to judge whether it was a good thing or not that I may have bludgeoned her to death with a soup ladle (you also assume I have access to a  soup ladel, and that my wife, that may or may not exist, would be able to be killed by a soup ladel by myself).

More importantly though that whilst you’re projecting your thoughts/ assumptions/ realities etc. onto me, who you know possibly ( I don’t know for sure….) very little about is the fact, more on topic,  is that there is an implication that with freedom, all moral codes would go out of the window. Do you think that would be the case? I don’t think it would.

Probably wise to leave the fact that there is possibly no such thing as free will (according to several suitably informed people) for another day.

In the spirit of honesty, I’m feeling playful today, so please accept my seemingly randomness as just that!

Few societies have true “freedom.” The ones that do, we’d consider savages.

Yes, that’s sad isn’t it, that we both seem to  agree that there are few societies that have true freedom.

You may (or may not) well consider the ones that do as savages. I certainly don’t.

It seems to ME that ‘progress’ has robbed us of our freedom.

France can hide behind lots of cultural baggage to ban religious stuff,

Perhaps the sad thing is that the UK that it has lost it’s culture (al baggage).

So freedom, but not freedom to do x. Doesn’t sound like freedom to me. It’s a fairly absolute thing freedom.

“European judges declare that preservation of a certain idea of ‘living together’ was legitimate aim of French authorities.” – Guardian 1 July 2014. 

That said, I empathise with my local adopted department capital of Grenoble in its defiance of the ban in its public swimming pools!

Ermmmmm…….I can only speak for me….but the burkha: france situation was not primarily about a wish to control the population by ensuring their faces were visible and therefore detectable by video detection etc.

it’s not necessarily an open display of racism either…..nor an open display of religious symbolism ban.

Golfe de Morbihan: so effectively Vannes.

Dominator is a single. Thump Thump Thump.

I’ve got a 1986 Tenere 1VJ in ‘that blue with gold rims’ with only 25 000 km on the clocks. It lives 2m from my sofa.

This is where the old phoenix phreeranger (trekker tents do a copy) was a winner in  goretex: single hoop lightweight 1 person tent with vestibule. Not self standing. But in goretex . So when flattened it also worked as it was a bivvy bag.

Between geodesic and non, there are other more important factors that are important for me before the choice between the 2. For the UK climate that includes a fly that extends down to close ground level so rain does not get blown under.

wtb expanse 30 on my surly steamroller fixed after couldn’t afford at time of replacement my usual René Herse

Ken Livingstone’s books are also great!

Disappointing but unsurprising to see that the population still does not grasp that the earth, its protection, support, care and repair should be number one above everything else, because it is our life support system.

No worries! Have fun.

For the Vercors that JamesO refers to, aim for the west side, where the Isère river flows down towards the Rhone. Combe Laval and the col de la machine is the most popular photo shoot type view, but several others round there worth riding. The vercors in La Drome,rather than in Isére is generally the better road riding (so the southern section).  Also look at La Drome in general: great riding and not that known about by non-french. Then getting down towards Les Ecrins La Col de Noyer is great.

I live nearby in the Chartreuse, don’t hesitate to get in touch.

Les Alpilles is great dry gravel riding . Great gravel scene round Arles, can put you in touch with some guys.

Vietnam you say?

It’s going to be hot and wet. That’s nice if you’re with a lady, ain’t no good in the jungle….

Denmark is absolutely amazing.

Way more ‘nature’ than the Netherlands. But with just as good bike infrastructure

Way less monotone than Sweden and Finland. But still gives you a scandinavian feel, but maybe not as strong

Done 2 trips there with young children. Can’t recommend it enough.

1st year was across the islands to Copenhagen and back.

2nd year was up Jutland to Skagen and back.

Preferred the 1st year, but I like boats and islands.

Both trips were mix of campsites and the nature camping sites you highlight. Re. the nature camping sitesBig variance in what you get at each one, some felt a bit ‘hobo’…., some were simply camping memories that I will remember for the rest of my days.

Slow ol’s photos could be our photos!

I grew up in Norfolk and I got vibes of some of the old villages from there, but also Scandinavian feel. it’s all quite varied but uniform in its uniqueness.

Great beer too…had one of the best beers I’ve ever tasted Aero Porter.

If I had to choose between Denmark and Sweeden for a trip, I think I would opt for Denmark. Not saying I would never go back to Sweeden though….far far from it.

Biscuits Apero.

@Pat12. Les Saisies is a great place for pretty much what you are after. Loads of easy pistes, and compared to most other resorts you can effectively go on a great journey linking blues and greens. The domaine is huge. The reds IIRC are mostly short cuts between these. Lots of trees and think of linked hills  rather than skiing on one open side of a mountain. Whilst not as high as the high resorts it’s pretty reliable in terms of snow cover. Had some great trips there with my two when they were smaller.

Edukator has a valid point re. altitude. Do your research.

Our first alpine summer trip with our youngest was to the Barcelonnette area (st. Paul sur Ubaye) come to think about it….I suggested it above as a destination without thinking about this. He would have been around 6 months old. Not his 1st trip to France. We then moved over here to France when he was 8 months old. All seems a long time ago now.

We spent one day in our quasar festering due to a storm. Late afternoon we decided to drop down the few km’s  to an auberge for a drink. During said drink there was a landslide meaning we couldn’t get back to the campsite via. the way we came. Had to descend all the valley to Serre Poncon lake, drive 1/2 way round the lake then back over the col du vars to our campsite…..about 150km….

Go south? Better weather. Different vegetation. Barcelonette. Briancon etc

Making your own oat milk is dead easy.

1 cup rolled oats
3-4 cups water (depending on the creaminess of the mylk you want)
Pinch of salt
1 date, pitted (optional)
Place all ingredients into blender. Blend on high for 1 min (no more otherwise it will be slimy).
Pour through a cloth, mylk bag or old t-shirt; wringing out liquid (see **).
Pour mylk into a jar, writing the date of making (see note).
** Save the pulp to make energy type balls!

Ha! Looks like we can derail/ have derailed this thread!

Thanks for taking the time to write that Edukator. It came out as a good blend of professional experience and passion/ interest.

I was brought up to think Hydro was great, as it was a renewable source etc. My thinking around this has also changed in the last few years. There’s been lots of thinking in the last few years precipitated by  huge changes in my life generally. There is a good Patagonia documentary on their website looking at hydro schemes, notably the one in Albania etc.

I remember reading you’re a geologist? Well so am I: an Engineering Geologist. Having earnt my living for a certain period of my life on oil/gas pipelines and mining infrastructure. Your mention of Llyn Brianne brought the Scottish tones of my dam lecturer to my mind: “Sexy little dam Llyn Brianne”.

Interestingly, I bit my lip from commenting on another thread recently on Riding in Tignes, and people were criticising the fact that it was an ugly ‘town’ etc. So..back on thread…. I initially thought Tignes was ugly because it was only a ski station etc, and one of the ‘ugly ones’. However I remembered and re-learnt how the real Tignes was flooded to make a Hydro reservoir, and hence the ugliness and artificial nature of the ‘town’ as is now has probably more to do with the state’s other gold rush in the form of electric and re-building rather than skiing tourism…which aligns with your points.

Aristide Bèrges and my home area has a lot to answer to in starting all of this! Actually come tot think of it pretty sure it was a dauphinois who was instrumental in the 1st steps of skiing as a leisure activity in France…hang on…yes: Henri Duhamel. Pretty sure Chamrousse figured in the story too.

Velo-ski is becoming increasingly popular around Grenoble. The latest copy of 200 (cycling) magazine has just done an article on it

Anyway, off to ponder whether I put the skis away for the season or not. Sorry to the others for making you all yawn and de-rail the thread. Peace.

It’s a valid point Edukator, however let’s not pretend that it’s done in the interests of doing good for the water supplies. I’m based in the Chartreuse so here and in the Vercors the water supply on the surface in the summer is a real issue. Whilst I’m  clouding up the ski tourism and ‘other’ climate issues…Lower level refuges here and elsewhere are having to close in the summer due to lack of water

It also uses lots of energy, and chemicals (admittedly the worst have been banned) the presence of the reservoirs is another artificial blot on the landscape, alters the ecology etc (see the recent rejection of planned bassin á La Clusaz).

Re. my use of ‘corporations’: again badly worded on my side: I guess I mean ‘companies or individuals that are driven by profits’. See SATA in Isère/ Hautes Alpes…..and their recent shrug of the shoulders to the environment in allowing the Tomorrowland festival to proceed on a glacier that is in its death throes. See also Tony Parker and his ongoing developments in the Vercors. I’m sure there’s more, these are on my doorstep so to speak.

What, came to my  mind during the Covid years, notably whilst skiing the 3 vallées on New Year’s Day 2020 :) having only crossed a handful of other skiers was how the landgrab was really really well executed. The most skiable terrain in the alps has been developed as ski stations. Sure, there’s loads of places to ski tour in great remote places, but they really did their studies in which places to develop.

I guess my badly worded ‘rant’ was more accurate in sentiment than being clear and concise! It’s been bubbling up at least over this winter and maybe each winter as I read and enjoy hearing about others trips. I have in the last few years been way more conscious about who gets my money, and I think that is a very efficient method to be doing better for the environment.

If anyone fancies taking a day on their winter holiday to learn about the changes that are taking place in the mountains whilst enjoying nature away from the hubub, then engaging a local accompagnateur  (or whatever the local term is) for the day or 1/2 day would serve to further their knowledge of the mountains and direct their money directly to someone who generally* cares.

* I can’t vouch for every single accompagnateur, but most are good people. I can at least vouch for myself ;).

Peace, out!