…the very people looking after our national assets who should be encouraging access…

I think that's what it all comes down to.
As I understand it (and I could be wrong again) the FC was created shortly after 1918 to ensure an adequate supply of duck boards for the trenches if ever there was another war.
Things have changed over the years, but I think there are still a lot of older guys who think the FCs primary role is to provide timber, and people walking and riding through just get in the way.
The new idea is that the forests are there to provide recreation for everyone, although many of them will have conflicting interests.
I've just got to convince them that the cost/benefit equation of a trailquest will be no worse than a dog sled race, off road half marathon or Go Ape climbing centre.

Why do some individuals feel the need to take it upon themselves to have these discussions with the FC etc?

Because I heard that discussions had been proposed and ,for the reasons I mentioned above, I thought I was in a suitable position to get involved.

You do not represent the mountain bike community

Which is why I asked for other peoples input via this forum.

We know it's not going to happen anyway now.
Just by having a brief conversation at the end of a meeting on another subject I have gained some information from the FC and passed it on via STW forum, which seems to be what everyone wanted to hear anyway.

I phoned Natural England today and spoke to their events organiser.
I mentioned the concrete road from Cooper's Mill up towards Button Oak and she thought there would be no problem with us using that on a trailquest, so that's more good news there then.

Nobody scanned it yet then ?

In answer to the original question, No.

What advantage does it offer over a 20 year old 3.9l Land Rover 110 on LPG ?

aracer, other people in MTQ have tried to organise a trailquest in the Wyre before and always got a flat refusal from the FC. The reason was always that only 6 events are allowed per year and they are already taken.
I don't know what's changed and why I've got this far, but I think there is pressure from somewhere to increase diversity of activities in the forest, without increasing conflict between different users.
I keep stressing that we only get about 50 riders at a trailquest, and they are spread over about 150 sq km for about 5 hours, so I guess we are seen as a low impact activity that shouldn't interfere with other users of the forest on the day.

The FC only own or manage about half of the forest, most of the other half is owned or managed by Natural England.
Apparently, the FC feel this puts unfair pressure on them as NE don't hold any events on their half, so they have been trying to get NE do their bit and it looks like NE are about to relent and allow use of their land.
I phoned NE today. The guy I wanted was out, but is going to phone me back tomorrow. The guy I spoke to sounded keen and seemed more concerned about whether any money raised would go to charity than anything else.

I tried to ask the FC for open access to all hard tracks, but they ruled out Hawkbatch straight away, which I thought was odd as that's where the dog sled race is held.
They wouldn't even allow unrestricted access to the Kinlet/Postensplain/Rocket Site mountain bike area for an organised event.

I'll speak to Natural England again tomorrow and see where I get with them.
The Forestry Commission want me to provide a map of where I want to put the control points so they can approve them, so I'll start on that soon.

I've thought about taking up orienteering. I do a bit of running and I think I would enjoy the challenge of navigating at the same time. I work shifts which can make any sort of midweek evening meeting awkward.
I've seen the permanent orienteering markers around Hawkbatch and Alveley Country park, is that you ? I'd be interested in meeting the people who organise it.
If you're putting on a triathlon, how about Trimpley reservoir ?

A little blunt – but best to let you down now before you dig yourself even further into the mire.

Why do you feel your letting me down ?
I've got a couple of pictures I like.
The first one captures the chaos and excitement of the start of the race. Riders running, support crew waving, me in the middle jumping on my bike.
The second one shows the loneliness of crossing the line for the last time at dusk.

I'll accept that it wouldn't be possible to get a picture of each of the 500 rides in the race jumping on their bike at the start without 500 photographers, but the finish shot shows what I mean by imaginative.
You look at it as a photographer and say if you can't see the number you can't sell the picture.
I look at it as a solo marathon rider and feel it shows the spirit of the event as I cross the line at the end of my last lap with less than 7 minutes to spare.

A tip: photograph riders from the front as you're not ID'ing anyone from these angles (no race numbers) – ergo you won't sell any images.

See what I mean about being imaginative ? I can't see my number, but I know I finished at 11:53 wearing a green & black jersey and shorts, so I'm sure I could pick myself out if you listed that batch of pictures by finish time.
You're the professional. If you say it won't work, then I'm sure it won't.
But if it does, I want 10% of the sales. :wink:

I like trees more than people, but I don't like asparagus.
Can I just eat extra bananas to increase my CO2 ?

Well, the trailquest meeting went reasonably well.
The Wyre Forest is a confusing mixture of ownership and management, there's no one organisation responsible for the whole forest. The FC seem OK with the idea so far and a brief phone conversation with Natural England sounded hopeful. If they both go for it we will have access to a largest part of the forest.

Regarding the creation of proper marked trails in the Wyre, I was told "That will only happen if I get direct orders from above". There is no local support for this idea at all.
As far as the Wyre rangers are concerned, Cannock is for XC, Ludlow is for DH, Wyre is for family trails.

Yes, but if the choice is between technically good or imaginative photos, I'll go for those two as a reminder of my day.

Nothing technically special about these photos from Bristol, but I reckon they show an imaginative angle that the professionals don't get and they make a good souvenir of the event.

Jumping on the bike at the start.

And almost 12 hours later.

I'm a premier member and I'm still getting them.

email sent.

sales@chainreactioncycles.com

Flashing adverts on singletrackworld forum.

Please stop them, they are annoying.
I will be shopping at Wiggle until they are gone.

Graham

I parked in the unofficial car park at BBF, near the start, and after the 12 hour race on Saturday, at about 9:30pm, headed over to the camping area to get some food with some friends.
I spoke to the guys parked next to me and said "I'll be sleeping in the Land Rover tonight, but could you keep an eye on it for the next hour or so while I'm gone, after what happened at Margam?"
They hadn't heard about Margam, so I told them the gist of it.
"Blimey" they said "We left our bikes out last night"

Crazy. There's too much done on trust.
Talk to your neighbours, get to know and recognise them and watch each others kit.

Good point, Shibboleth, I suppose an even more realistic comparison would be motocross bikes, but as there are no belt drive MX bikes, as far as I know, we can't make that comparison.
I guess I'll have to let Rip and other pioneers gain some long term experience before I commit to buying a new frame and £250 worth of belt and pulleys.
As far as new technologies, or established technologies in new applications, go though, it's looking pretty good so far.

Ooh that's nice. If they did a 29er I'd seriously consider buying one.

Regarding the 60k cam belt change. That's 60000 miles at an average of what, 30mph at 5000rpm ? How many revolutions is that ? Probably more than you'll ever pedal in your lifetime. And cam chains run in an oil bath anyway.
A more realistic comparison would be the belt drives used on Harley Davidsons. They've been around a few years and have proved reliable.

There's an interesting discussion on belt drive Rohloffs on the Thorn forum.
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=2266.0

Yes, they're dangerous and will explode and kill you.
Send them to me and I will dispose of them safely. :wink:

About 8.1km per lap according to my Garmin, I think. I'll check when I get home.
The battery went flat part way through the day, but it showed me using 8000 Kcal in the first 8.5 hours, so probably close to 11000 after 18 laps.
7th Old Git, or I would have been 23rd in the open class.

The marshals were great. They were shouting "Go Vegan !" at me every time I rode past, then radioing on ahead to the next marshal post to tell them I was coming, so they'd all be shouting as soon as I came in to view. :-)

I've never seen so many punctures at an event. No one can accuse me of pushing the cakes out of the way to get to the salad, but I managed to avoid pinch flats. Inner tubes are just so last year.

Meanwhile, motorists kill about 350 cyclists and pedestrians a year.

I think you're confusing patriotism with isolationism.

Morgan, they're British.
Oh, hang on, it's the window problem again.

Thanks jonb.
I prefer ergo type grips though.
Do Specialized do them, or do they only do round ones ?

And what's with all the England flags on Audis, Renaults and Fiats ?

Patriotism is for life, not just for a football game.

I don't think another Cannock is likely.
Ribbesford is working out quite well with minimal publicity and volunteer trail building.
Maybe an XC equivalent at Kinlet could work ?

I've already got a meeting planned for Monday to discuss the use of non RoWs for the trailquest. He could have just said No over the phone, so I think I'm getting somewhere there.

Maybe the FC have come to realise they can't stop off piste mountain biking in the Wyre, so they might as well talk to mountain bikers to try to reach a compromise between "You can't ride anywhere" and "We want to ride everywhere"

No, but we've got England football stickers on all the buses at work. :evil:
What a waste of money.

To answer my own question from three months ago, I thought all lock ons had a lock at both ends and if I cut them the non locked end would twist.
Since then I've learned that some are rigid and only lock at one end, so it's actually quite easy to cut them down.
Currently using a pair of Specialized ergo style grips with the right hand one cut down to about 110mm.

Ah,the maverick free spirit of the mountain biker.
I think that's the problem. There are pony clubs, orienteering clubs, walking clubs and so on who hold organised events for their members, but most mountain bikers just turn up on their own or with a few mates and ride.

I can only guess, at this stage, what might be discussed at any meeting.
The FC have been providing materials for the downhill tracks at Ribbesford.
Maybe they think that by doing the same for the XCers in the Wyre, a mixture of purpose built trails and peer group pressure would keep people in the right areas.

I've got the trailquest meeting on Monday and I'll try to find out if they actually want a general mountain biking meeting and, if so, what they want to discuss and who with, then.
It would be handy to go in with some ideas myself though, so I just wondered if anyone's got any points they would like me to raise with the FC if I get a chance.

Yes, I did wonder that, and I'd be happy to pass it on to them or even become their representative in this area if they wanted me to.

How many mountain bikers are in the IMBA, CTC or other national organisation though ?

That's one of the good things about trail centres.
They reduce the amount of litter out on the proper trails.

First Busses's…and their moronic, rude, unhelpful staff

Oi ! :evil:

Most crime is committed in cities too.
Ban cities.
Bulldoze every other square mile.
Turn them in to a checker board of villages again.

I thought it would be a good idea to alert the forum that it might be worth having a quick look at the rag in WH Smiths

Don't they wrap it in plastic to stop you doing that these days ?

Scan and post ? :wink:

I used to use Trekkie lines to explain why our IT system was down I only once got challenged doing this

Brilliant. :lol:
I convinced the guys I used to work with that I was a military aircraft expert by identifying every one that ever flew over.

"See the shape of the wings ? That's an Aveling Porter."
"Hear that distinctive engine note ? That's a Briggs and Stratton."

Quorn.
Not only does it taste disgusting, or so I'm told, but they've got a virtual monopoly on supermarket distribution so that many people think it's what vegans eat, when it's not even vegan, it's got chicken periods in it.

Jim, can we stick with the arrangement we've got now ?
If killer hasn't replied on his own thread for a week and Daz and myself are committed to the present plan, I think it's best if we go with it. Greatest good for the greatest number and all that. Maybe he can do a deal with shinsplints.

Daz, I'll be at Rough Ride. That's one of the reasons I regretted trying to ride 24 solo last year. MM came as the last of 4 weekends of hard riding after Set2Rise, Bristol and Marin. Same again this year and it's a bit much for me.

If yours hasn't arrived by Wednesday, they're cutting it a bit fine if people are going to be travelling down on Friday.

ORRP. One Ten, Live It.

Anyone doing the 12 Saturday and the 6 on Sunday ?
Every time I've raced at Bristol or Cheddar, I've done the long Saturday race and said I'll enter the shorter Sunday race the next morning if I feel like it.
I never do. :oops:
This year, Mrs Militant is racing solo on Sunday, so I'll either support her from the sidelines or enter and ride with her.
Or just have a lie in.

Jim, there's no email in your profile.
Mine's aecmilitant tiscali co uk

What's happened to killer ?
Seems a bit rude hijacking his thread and his team place, but if he first posted a week ago and not since, I guess he's made other arrangements.

Chunkydaz, once I've sorted out the details with jimr80, my place is yours, we can sort out the cash on the day.

Are any of you at Bristol this weekend ?

How about riding up a down escalator?

Downhillers don't ride up hill, they push.

A fully loaded concrete wagon can weigh around 40tonnes,
Those one's have got three axles. They'll be no more than 26t GVW.