Its such a smokescreen…..they need to sort out the Euro and fast. A few weeks (or days) from now all this could be academic if the bond markets get properly spooked again. Italy has to borrow EUR200bn next year, who the hell is going to lend it to them?

indeed i dont know but the city boys ™ on here are sounding rather arrogant

sorry not trying to be arrogant. feeling pretty exasperated though. if you dont know, why spout off?

More FX is traded in London than in the rest of the planet combined. Hardly any of those trades involve GBP. Just because a bond or derivative is denominated in a currency that doesnt mean it has to be traded in one location. It isnt even remotely possible that Merkozy could could exclude London from EUR capital markets.

The German and French banks could leave, but only if they decide to retreat from investment banking. It isnt impossible that that could happen, but it just leaves a gap for the US and British banks to take more market share.

TJ whats with all this concern for the Square Mile? You hate bankers and wish them good riddance no?

There will still be a Tobin tax on transactions within the euro zone, whether the bank is based in Frankfurt, New York or London, not being within the Euro zone will also likely bring additional taxes for companies operating outside the zone.

^^^^^You made this up^^^^^

Why would Deutsche Bank (where I used to work) move from London (where there will be no Tobin tax) to Frankfurt where they plan to introduce one? I can tell you there is barely a single German working in that firm in London, there isnt a hope that their staff are going to move to Frankfurt.

Its hot. and I wouldnt even think of getting on a road bike in KL.

Take your swimmers instead.

So to sum up – the only people that thisk this is a good idea are the eurosceptics?

Not quite TJ – for someone who loves asking for evidence, I am sure you took into account the Times online poll – 57% DC was correct to use the veto, 14% he was wrong. 29% don’t knows.

….and the whole cohort of Labour-right commentators. John Rentoul, Luke Bozier, Dan Hodges amongst others all coming out for DC and sticking it to EMili and Clegg. Tis great to be alive.

Bild Sonntag Poll – 46% believe Germany would be better off out of the EU versus 45% disagree.

Yet on and on it goes…..

Forget all this stuff about the UK leaving the and it will be a disaster for trade. Its nonsense, we are all fully paid up members of the WTO, there will be no tarrifs on trade whatever happens.

I want an EU that is a free-trade zone and nothing much more. Lisbon gave the EU a diplomatic service, president, emabassies, flags, national anthems and all the other trappings of a state. Yet come Libya, Britain and France decide to act and Germany wraps itself in it’s pacifist comfort blanket. We can argue the toss about whether we should have been involved in Libya (but please lets not) but it was plain yet again that for all the hot air about EU speaking with one voice, European nations cannot ever do so when the chips are down.

And dont get me started on the Common Agricultural Policy. We ought to be bloody ashamed that we still feather-bed European farmers and erect trade barriers against Third World subsistance agriculture. It is an absolute disgrace……All that hot air about helping Africa from Brussels. Fix that and we wont need to send them foreign aid.

Mcboo- Brown dodged nothing and there is nothing to have a referendum over here – we need a public vote cos an stupid prime minister beholden to a bunch of deluded xenophobes made a serious miscalculation in an EU negotiation and used a veto unnecessarily leaving us stuck 26:1 on the outside?

and

There is absolutely no chance of any “Liberal Democracies” taking root – its not what the west want and its not what is going to happen

Yet you wonder TJ why people get tired of your rants.

A financial analyst thinks Cameron’s plan to protect the city will backfire, Frankfurt will be more than ever seen as the financial hub of Europe.

Jeez more than ever? That much eh?

We were promised a referendum on Lisbon but Brown dodged it. This is way overdue.

It is noted that it is the same people squeeling now about the veto are the same people who said we ought to be in the Euro.

62% support DC use of the veto. 19% oppose.

It takes the Telegraph to get to the heart of this

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ambroseevans-pritchard/100013758/europes-blithering-idiots-and-their-flim-flam-treaty/

In short, there is no breakthrough of any kind that will convince Asian investors that this monetary union has viable governance or even a future.

Germany has kept the focus exclusively on fiscal deficits even though everybody must understand by now that this crisis was not caused by fiscal deficits (except in the case of Greece). Spain and Ireland were in surplus, and Italy had a primary surplus.

As Sir Mervyn King said last week, the disaster was caused by current account imbalances (Spain’s deficit, and Germany’s surplus), and by capital flows setting off private sector credit booms.

The Treaty proposals evade the core issue.

Did France and Germany really have to cause this rift by throwing in an assault on the City that has precious little do with the EMU crisis? Yes, I suppose they did.

Given that Merkozy cannot bring themselves to accept that Europe’s debacle stems from the euro itself, from a 30pc currency misalignment between from North and South, and from an over-leveraged €23 trillion banking bubble that German, French, Dutch, Belgian regulators allowed to happen… given that, yes, I suppose they have to find a scapegoat.

They have to whip up a witchhunt against somebody, so why not Anglo-Saxon bankers? Nasty reflexes are at work. German and French politicians in particular should be very careful about inciting populist hatred against a group that makes such easy prey. We have been there before.

Why the Scots? I dont hate English people.

Cameron IS a Eurosceptic, he’s not pandering to anyone. And he’s right with public opinion on this…..anything from Labour? What would EdMil do?

“Last night most of Europe’s governments gave up a chunk of their sovereignty. In the future, tax and spending plans will be shown to European officials before national governments.”

Does anyone on here actually want this for Britain? Anyone?

TJ – this question.

Hey if you want to form a fully federal United States of Europe go campaign for that. I look forward to that election result.

Perfect, thanks….ipad app was what I was after.

In the context “pooled” or “shared” are weasel words. They imply that you can choose to un-share.

Exactly right….and those are Gavin Hewitts words. Never mind about answering an uncomfortable question TJ.

+1 what allthepies said.

“Last night most of Europe’s governments gave up a chunk of their sovereignty. In the future, tax and spending plans will be shown to European officials before national governments.”

Does anyone on here actually want this for Britain? Anyone?

Cameron has positioned himself right with public opinion on this.

Anyone heard anything from Labour yet?

which is where the Tobin tax comes in.

Why do you want to pay more tax? It will be everyone’s pensions that will pick up the bill, do you want to work longer and for less? Wasnt that what the public sector just went on strike against? Make your mind up please.

How does all this solve the underlying problem? How does Italy compete from within the Euro? That is the question that needs to be answered here otherwise they are going to default.

As per usual this has turned into a power grab by France and Germany when they should be addressing the fundamental flaws at the heart of the Euro.

Labour party reaction? Silence. They arent stupid, they know where UK public opinion is on this.

If there is one thing we could do with a whole lot more of it is private equity and venture capital. And less ignorance.

I’ve almost finished Brian Cox’s “Quantum Universe”. Its a mind warp but still makes a whole lot more sense than the bible.

What he wont say is what TJ says, “This Euro looks like a winner, Britain ought to join.”

That argument is bull.

Millions of athiests/humanists try and live decent lives without the need for god.

Millions of christians try and live decent lives partly because they are good people and partly because their book tells them to fear god.

Who is being moral here?

Look, like TJ I dont really know a whole lot about this stuff, but arent we signed up to reduce our carbon emmissions by some huge number? Like 80% by 2050?

Nevertheless, if there were credible evidence from a credible, you would be unlikely to listen to it and would still refuse to believe it, preferring to stay with your own pre-conceived notions

Except I started off as a Christian, with Christian parents, it was the total lack of any evidence that made me start asking questions for myself. That was when I was eight.

This used to be a great thread, lots of good points made. Then Fred the attention seeker showed up and started spewing the usual look-at-me-garbage. Pitiful.

Fair enough……I will leave you with my pitch

http://www.humanism.org.uk

Throughout recorded history there have been non-religious people who have believed that this life is the only life we have, that the universe is a natural phenomenon with no supernatural side, and that we can live ethical and fulfilling lives on the basis of reason and humanity. They have trusted to the scientific method, evidence and reason to discover truths about the universe and placed human welfare and happiness at the centre of their ethical decision making.

Today, people who share these beliefs and values are called humanists and this combination of attitudes is called Humanism. Many millions of people in Britain share this way of living and of looking at the world, but many of them have not heard the word ‘humanist’ and don’t realise that it describes what they believe.

It is one of the main purposes of the British Humanist Association to increase public awareness of what Humanism is, and to let the many millions of non-religious people in this country know that, far from being somehow deficient in their values, they have an outlook on life which is coherent and widely-shared, which has inspired some of the world’s greatest artists, writers, scientists, philosophers and social reformers, and which has a millenia-long tradition in both the western and eastern worlds.

We also hope to give greater confidence to people whose beliefs are humanist by offering resources here and elsewhere that can develop their knowledge of humanist approaches to some of the big ethical, philosophical and existential questions in life.

Defining ‘Humanism’
Roughly speaking, the word humanist has come to mean someone who:

•trusts to the scientific method when it comes to understanding how the universe works and rejects the idea of the supernatural (and is therefore an atheist or agnostic)
•makes their ethical decisions based on reason, empathy, and a concern for human beings and other sentient animals
•believes that, in the absence of an afterlife and any discernible purpose to the universe, human beings can act to give their own lives meaning by seeking happiness in this life and helping others to do the same.

and this happens all over the place. It’s what makes the Bible so difficult to work with but that mean that it isn’t worth trying

deep down, don’t you honestly think…….it’s just a bunch of mythical stories from the Iron Age. I mean honestly…..?

Jesus – “Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.” (Matthew 5:17 NAB)

Oh dear

thought the older spittalfields one next to cotswold outdoor (strype street) has always had the MTB focus. very helpful in there, though bit out of the way compared to their other store in the area and the underground evans stoore there as well – that evans also has a good range of MTB stuff

This is true, I’ve spent £££££ with those guys over the years. I like Cyclesurgery generally, Holloway Rd branch has been very good to me too, good workshops.

Whats the bike shop next door to them in Strype St doing?

CharlieMungus – Member

If you got a problem with the old testament you need to go complain to the Jews.
Jesus was a Jew……in fact Jesus was THE Jew.

Actually I think he may have been a Christian too.

So where in the new testament does it say to disregard the old testament hmmmmmm? I mean if we’re not in 2011 to take the old testament seriously because it is so obviously an objectionable collection of mumbo-jumbo, why didnt Jesus say so? I mean thats pretty fundamental to a new religion don’t you think?

Or maybe Jesus didnt plan on setting up a new cult based on himself. Maybe the people who came after him thought his story was a good one as far as it went but with a bit of polish on the script it could have real legs. St Paul anyone?

George Monbiot in the Guardian today. He knows a thing or two…..

Anti-nuclear campaigners have generated as much mumbo jumbo as creationists, anti-vaccine scaremongers, homeopaths and climate change deniers. In all cases, the scientific process has been thrown into reverse: people have begun with their conclusions, then frantically sought evidence to support them.

The temptation, when a great mistake has been made, is to seek ever more desperate excuses to sustain the mistake, rather than admit the terrible consequences of what you have done. But now, in the UK at least, we have an opportunity to make amends.

cont…

So we environmentalists have a choice. We can’t wish the waste away. Either it is stored and then buried. Or it is turned into mox fuels. Or it is used to power IFRs. The decision is being made at the moment, and we should determine where we stand. I suggest we take the radical step of using science, not superstition, as our guide.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/dec/05/sellafield-nuclear-energy-solution

Charlie stop shouting racist. I might not have chosen the same words as Deviant but black culture isnt and shouldnt be above criticism. Ask David Lammy.