The richest country in the world, which is also the biggest proponent of capitalism can’t prevent huge areas of its major cities degenerating into slums.

This I have some sympathy with. And it might not get better until the Chinese get wealthy enough that they price themselves out of their own manufacturing markets.

…..and we only have one little planet that isnt getting any bigger.

El-bent the sanctimony drips from every word of that post of yours.

“Some peoples lives” = Actually hundreds of millions of people lifted out of grinding poverty.

“We in the West” – We bedsit revolutionaries in Europe know better than everyone else.

and you finish with this peach

“China, the one party state, have added their form of free market economics to state oppression. A proud moment for the West.”

Are you blaming Western liberal democracy for Chinese totalitarianism? Do you want to try again?

My point made McBoo – the soviet union with its 5 year plans was a totalitarian state not socialist – as was china.

A totalitarian state is not socialist or communist. it is totalitarian no matter what it is called.

India pre-1991 economic reforms was very definatly a socialist economy but a vibrant democracy. It kept the latter, binned the former and life for hundreds of millions of your fellow homsapiens got better…..much better.

Either that or something else happened, about which you can now illuminate us.

TJ from your vast knowledge of economic history, please tell us what of the above is inaccurate?

TandemJeremy – Member
Errmmm- neither were either socialist or communist.

Mr Flat Earth pronounces.

Lets look

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_India#Pre-liberalisation_period_.281947.E2.80.931991.29

Pre-liberalisation period (1947–1991)Indian economic policy after independence was influenced by the colonial experience, which was seen by Indian leaders as exploitative, and by those leaders’ exposure to democratic socialism as well as the progress achieved by the economy of the Soviet Union.[38] Domestic policy tended towards protectionism, with a strong emphasis on import substitution industrialisation, economic interventionism, a large public sector, business regulation, and central planning,[42] while trade and foreign investment policies were relatively liberal.[43] Five-Year Plans of India resembled central planning in the Soviet Union. Steel, mining, machine tools, telecommunications, insurance, and power plants, among other industries, were effectively nationalised in the mid-1950s.

In response, Prime Minister Narasimha Rao, along with his finance minister Manmohan Singh, initiated the economic liberalisation of 1991. The reforms did away with the Licence Raj, reduced tariffs and interest rates and ended many public monopolies, allowing automatic approval of foreign direct investment in many sectors.[54] Since then, the overall thrust of liberalisation has remained the same, although no government has tried to take on powerful lobbies such as trade unions and farmers, on contentious issues such as reforming labour laws and reducing agricultural subsidies.[55] By the turn of the 20th century, India had progressed towards a free-market economy, with a substantial reduction in state control of the economy and increased financial liberalisation.[56] This has been accompanied by increases in life expectancy, literacy rates and food security, although the beneficiaries have largely been urban residents.

We live in an amazing time…..literally hundreds of millions of people in India and China are being lifted out of absolute poverty in a process that has been going on for 20 years and continues to accelerate.

Both these countries used to be solidly socialist and in China’s case, absolutely Communist. If it isnt a move to free market economics that has caused incredible improvements in people’s live, tell me what it is? I am all ears.

TJ you of all people should be hoping Hester sticks around and succeeds. Your independent Scotland cant afford a perpetually bust RBS.

When he took the job (at the request of G.Brown and A.Darling) I dont think he was signing up to be public enemy #1. Whatever he does it will be the same this time next year. Haters gonna hate.

Bankers have been getting paid too much. But like it or not Hester has been doing a good job at RBS, shrinking the place, getting it focused on it’s core business again and hopefully ready for sale so we can get our money out of it.

He’s not the bad guy and if he quits what will that achieve? If Labour are so outraged by his £2mm pay for 2011 why did it pay him £7.2mm in 2008? Epic levels of hypocracy, they really do not have a leg to stand on.

rugby training is ideal as it also increases robustness and determination

This. I never played rugby as a lad and really wished I had. Just gets you used to taking knocks and picking yourself up again. Infantry training is basically one long process of finding out exactly what your mind and body are capable of.

I was Army infantry and loved it but to be honest if I had my time again I would go RM. Really is a huge difference in the calibre of the average soldier in my experience. Our guys were great but were basically a huge gang of lads from the rough side of the tracks. Most Marines I know have a bit of a hinterland of their own, are into climbing or mtb or canoeing and are generally a lot brighter.

I only went to Manchester once, to see Black Grape at the Apollo. That was quite a night, and quite a lairy crowd of mentalists.

ransos – Member

Really? You want to do this again?

If you like. We could once again have a go at explaining “you can’t have it both ways”.

The simple fact is that who gets what is a matter of negotiation, not entitlement.

You better get used to this argument. You want the oil, you are gettting RBS.

Well if independence forces the English Labour Party to take a large and permananent step to the right I will be delighted. I may even vote for them.

Conflating the RBS and oil revenues just adds to the obfuscation, whether it’s being done deliberately to cause mischief or because people simply can’t think clearly.

Well, get used to it, because this argument is going to be drilled into the public consciousness for the next 2yrs.

Teh oil is in Scottish territorial waters. Clear in international law. and already delineated.

And RBS is Scottish. So, there’s going to be some negotiating, but there’s no chance Scotland takes all the oil without taking a big chunk of RBS too.

What kind of independence would be sitting in isolation with your economy dependant on the international oil price? You want to leave Sterling and join your beloved Euro right? Now you say you want to stay in Sterling, where the Bank of England will set interest rates for the benefit of England, Wales and NI with no reference to the state of Scotland’s economy? That is EXACTLY the thing that has destroyed the economies of Southern Europe, where rates are set for the benefit of Berlin and Paris, not Athens or Madrid.

What independence?

RBS was and is headquartered St Andrew’s Square, Edinburgh. The mad dash for growth was dreamed up and driven by Sir George Mathewson, Sir Tom McKillop and Sir Fred Goodwin, with the investment bank run by Johnny Cameron. The clues are in the names.

TJ and Salmond want to waltz off with 92% of the oil but only 8% of the UK national debt and 8% of the liabilities of RBS. Most of us south of the border are pretty indifferent to Scottish independence but you can think again if you think England is going to be stuffed in the process.

And a vote for devo max means you are staying in the Union on our terms, England will have a say, and a vote.

apart from it would either have been a multinational and thus the failure would have needed multinational solutions as happened with other banks across europe. Or it would have been remodelled into a central scottish bank without the casino part run from London where the losses were made.

I don’t even know where to begin with this piffle. and finishes with a pearl

you cannot have it both ways

If it’s everyone for themselves; how do we go about kicking off a campaign for english independence?

Where do I sign up….?

Cowardly SNP would indeed withdraw from NATO. Just like they opposed NATO action to stop Milosovic in Kosovo which they still wring their hands about.

Young Scots will do what we always did…..leave Scotland to serve in the British Army.

Sitrep : I ran to work 2 days ago……and my legs are killing me!

BTW…..not looking for historical novels per say, just good fiction of any genre.

My NY resolution of only reading fiction in 2012 has been updated to only fiction recommendations from STW on this thread. Going to be depressing to get to December and see how little of these I will have manged to get through.

Loads of good ones, thanks.

Sitrep : Finished The Long Goodbye. Great thing about Philip Marlowe detective novels is you dont have to work too hard, it’s just like watching a Bogart movie, lovely.

Half way through Fear and Loathing…..couple of cup cakes.

Next up, Midnight’s Children.

The think is I have real experience and real knowledge of the effects on real people and know that what you state is simply wrong.

I am simply not going to engage with you anymore.

I think we have been here before……

😐

Nice to see nothing changes, TJ could you be any more supercilious?

You shouldnt selectively quote your sources Jeremy. You missed a bit

For example, for someone paying income tax and national insurance, receiving Tax Credits at more than the family element, and housing benefit and council tax benefit, marginal deduction rates can currently be as high as 95.5%, meaning that someone would only keep 4.5p in each additional pound earned.

The Universal Credit claims to relieve this problem. It does this with a single withdrawal rate of 65% of net income, which, for households paying income tax and national insurance, leads to an overall marginal deduction rate of 76% – undoubtedly considerably lower than the 95.5% some households face

The new tory proposals will reduce the incentive to work my restoring the high marginal tax rate

Well that would be the exact opposite of IDS’s aim, in pursuit of which he is introducing a single universal benefit.

Evidence or retraction please.

Junkyard – Member
and over half of all those benefits go to the retired, those in work and the disabled …..the bastards

OK….so what about the other half?

We spend more on benefits and state pensions than we do on health, education and defence COMBINED.

Labour did try and fix this problem a long time ago. Blair made Frank Field Minister for Welfare Reform in 1997 with a mandate to “think the unthinkable”. He lasted a year before Gordon Brown forced him out.

Europe, education reform, deficit reduction and now bringing some sanity to the welfare system, Labour is placing itself firmly against public opinion. Please do carry on Ed.

Oh the stress of maintaining one’s ethical purity in an unkind world. The price of Hummus in Edinburgh is simply a scandal.

Transpyr……8 days on the mtb, lot of up so want to be good and slim but no getting away from hill work.

We’re filling up the calender in Apr/May/Jun with lots of road sportives, endurance MTB like HONC and Bucks Off-Road. Am going to race at Beastway too (1hr of utter MTB purgatory) in an effort to mix things up.

Most days I commute by bike and at the weekends I will do one long endurance ride on road or mtb, will try and get a second shorter ride in in the evening when the nights get longer.

If you guys think running can help build base fitness maybe I should press on with it.

What’s all this Utility nonsense?

Leonard Cheshire I’m ashamed to say I had not heard of, quite a life.

I’m going to go for the recently departed Christopher Hitchens.

And Orwell. While Mandela makes me rather proud of being Homo Sapiens.

mmmmmm…..Raffles is lovely, but on the Long Bar I’m sticking with “Avoid”. Just remembered the Tiffin Lunch they do there. Maybe best Indian food I’ve ever had.

or here. 57 floors up.

plus the inevitable Singapore sling at Raffles

This is not recommended. Fat tourists in a chintzy bar drinking a horrible pink sickly sweet “cocktail”.

Go here instead

Edit: Indochine Waterfront, right in the middle of town on the river, amazing view of the CBD skyscrapers.

We’re doing a Phuket trip at Easter, visiting friends in Sing again for 2 nights and have to say I’m looking forward to Singapore almost as much as the beach in Thailand.

Food is great, ask Ben where to go…..me I’d go light on Chinese, try all the Malay you can handle. Damn spicy but they are tremendous cooks. Sing is a great place to be an expat, maybe isnt obvious what to do as a tourist. Me I just love the zoos and mooching around Chinatown and Little India. Sing has changed a lot over the last 10yrs or so, isnt the dull, sterile place of legend. Many many great little shops and bars and restaraunts…….place has a lot of style and Singapore nightlife is fantastic.

And the Botanic Gardens is one of favourite places on the planet.

I used to live across the road from the Oates family home in Putney.

Those guys were proper explorers, equivalent to the Apollo programme in being just totally “out there”.

ohnohesback – Member
We are only a democracy because Mrs Windsor allows it…

Eh the history books suggest we are a democracy for a lot of lovely reasons, one of which being Oliver Cromwell having cut off the head of Charles I.

I love Michael Gove but in the week people were starting to tip him as a future Prime Minister he comes out with this twaddle. Wrote a foreword to the King James Bible too last year…..stick to revolutionising our school system please Mike.