If that's not good enough…..

Tour d'Force

You want something Iconic has to be old school… one for the campag fan club and possibly might raise an eyebrow or two in Hoxton..

I think they have a demo one in Llandegla, Jim the partner has one and did the Trans Rockies on it. Seems to give it a high rating over a meta 4 he had before

New 2010 G Spot…. little chance of anyone walking up and saying 'I got one of those'

Having read the responses I am pleased and surprised the way the thread has gone the mature and sometimes lighthearted debate, may be I maligned a few of you, and although there are a few chumps here with a significant lack of grasp of reality. I agree however with those touting the view most posters here will mostly enjoy mountain biking by seeking out their own routes, often out of developed sites and relying on themselves to organise the fun. That's fine and trail centres are increasingly realising that they are not as able to cater for your needs as they can those unable to make such choices from a broad breadth of personal knowledge or experience and so will not waste time trying.

I would even say if you pay to camp locally or B&B and ride into a 'Public' trail centrebypassing the parking charge you should not think of yourself as a freeloader. Almost certainly most trail centres are partly funded by local councils and enterprise agencies on the basis the investment will create increased economic activity in the region as a result and not just make the forestry commission fatter. You should however not that not all trails are 'Public' Coed Trallwm is developed by private individuals who bought one of the Forests that Thatcher was making the Forestry Commission sell off. Coed Llandegla's tenants are on a sliding scale and the more popular the place becomes the significantly more they need pay to the landlord who are not foresters but are in fact a multinational PLC the shareholders of which have sought to get greater economic activity from a forest that was becoming economically less productive because of the prevailing timber industry situation. The variable nature of our weather means our pines grow far too fast and eratically to produced the denser pine timber required for quality building materials. Most Welsh Pine makes fence posts or pulp for chip board as the paper industry is now 100% recycled paper at the local mills

I am particularly optimistic this kind of thread does not attract either the majority of the riding public or reflect their opinions or expectations. I would guess less than 5 of you have any real idea about the dynamics of forest management , long term policy or the economics for building, running and maintaining trails and live in cosseted urban environments selling plumbing piping or running the printing press. Now I have probably insulted 3/4 of you, I feel more able than most to comment as somebody heavily involved in current development for mountain biking in Wales and was involved in the development of Coed y Brenin and have some responsibility for the original employment of Dafydd Davis.

Many of the North Wales forests timber is suited for little in the way of must curerent high value timber demand. The Wood for Coed Llandegla centre was imported from North America not from the forest. Mostly the production was programmed over the last 20 years to go for paper pulp at UPM Shotton. Now Shotton is predominantly run from recycled paper the timber market has become further depressed. In order to offset the short falls in management costs which could only be levied against the tax payer if income cannot cover it has to be raised else where.

The Forestry Commission was able to take funds as an investment match them against grant funding available for depressed rural economies from Europe and the Government to develop facilities that would attract an alternative revenue both freeing it from dependancy on timber sales and hopefully creating a new revenue stream possibly great enough to further reduce dependancy on the tax payer.

Irrespective of your own likes or beliefs you ride forestry land on the terms of the Forestry Commission, they are not like Scandanavia where they are open at all times to the public or Pays Vasco where they belong to the community they are set in. If you want something free to ride in a manner of independance of permission there are bridleways and byways.

I was at a meeting discussing the spending of £32 million of european money for sustainable adventure tourism in Wales on wednesday which those bidding will need to bring forward 50% of their own money so if we want 4 million to upgrade and improve bike trails they will give us 2. However there are caveats mostly being that euurope require that to have the money we need produce real permanent jobs and income.

Reading this thread simply confirms the view that most had there that the niche end represented on this post has little if no value in any business model and there is a definite enthusiastic user base that will fit in with the models for income generation and until you start to realise trail centres or forests have never been a free meal you will simply get more Llandegla's and green routes because the evidence is overwhelming that they pay their way hard core gnarly dude compatible black routes dont they just attract a niche who are mostly negative critical and cynical and nothing in this thread has done anything to disabuse me of that even the limited number of voices supporting the fee paying model.

I am of course double lucky in knowing and using most of the free natural stuff I dont need any trail centres and if they all closed tomorrow i would not be unhappy other than for the opportunity lost to bring new people into the sport and ensure other people of the uk have a chance to experience the positive benefits of mountain biking in the uk so when more public money becomes available they support its spending on more mtb facilities and not demanding leisure centres and bowling greens. The next big dilemma for the nation providing leisure facilities is going to be for the greatly increasing numbers of aged people who simply cant do activity tourism…. this money will not be here for us for ever.

I think because of the level of ignorance threads like this generate it is time the mtb mags did proper features on the issues of trail development and sustainable tourism policies which appear as important that riders understand as much as being able to know how to choose your next £500 wheel set. If you were properly informed about this issue you could make better informed decisions about if it is right to pay or not and also how to effectively identify and use your economic potential to argue that your niche would like to have some benefit from the end of the current regime of trail centre development which is rapidly approaching us.

They seem to close everything these days this is on the Forestry Commission Wales' Web Site

Due to technical reasons, the Forestry Commission website will be unavailable from 9am on Saturday 3 October. The website should be available again on Sunday 4. Apologies for any inconvenience.

was trying to find out if there is a posted an order for a temp closure on open access in the same forest as they normally would do that too if there was a rally and any notice would state that.. however cant find any notices so they must only post them on site which appears a bit late and therefore useless.

I think they often have these kinds of threads >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over on the other forum…

If I recall the UCI thing riders were beginning to take them off at events where they saw streamlining helpful.. like lycra.. the helmet manufacturers who like the slackwearr manufacturers relied on the moto is fast myth got the UCI to ban the practise although doing so neither reduce the strength or performance of the helmet and as most downhillers use goggles the little mud flicked up as roost is a negligable issue…

on the other hand way back in motox times JT one of the originators of the moto cool myth designed a clip on peak extension that was transparent aiding vision, after a spate of faceplant accidents it was found on crashing the flimsy attachment pivotted into the face slicing the nose off.. they were banned by the AMA and ACU as were any properly secured peaks. Riders reverted to duck taping old goggle lenses to the ends of their peaks to perform the same function

I have had two gyro flexi peak helmets including a xen which display this habit and now for any riding where a earth impact is routine / likely i have a Protec Ace Dig which has a screwed on peak on a hard poly shell potty helmet

I saw a guy doing the recent Ruthin Merida Marathon on one

you mean him

nice ride over the old roman road to aber then turn back heading towards Penmaenmawr then head back towards the conwy valley, there are threads here pointing to the route, but note most require you to use cheeky trails for part of the circuit .. please treat with respect so others can come back to be cheeky another time ,Conwy Mountain also falls within this category.

I am really pleased somebody took the time to post the gps of the route, thanks . Of course it should be noted some of the route of the Merida follow sections that are only available for use during the event because of the help and goodwill of landowners who not only allow us access to private land to ensure we can avoid needlessly long descents into the valley and then having to use well used tarmac roads improving riders safety and enjoyment they don't expect any payment other than we agree that riders do not use them outside of events. Those who rode the Flintshire Challenge will be more than well aware of what the alternative entails if such acess is unavailable.

I would therefore hope before anyone else posts any further copies of your map or offering the tracklog itself you ensure that recipients are aware of this and are asked to agree to stick to rights of ways to complete the route or as sure as tomorrow can be predicted to come the Merida will be forced to stick to rights of way increasing the pain for no gain…

as per above check out La Molina as it is getting a lot of money spent there.. ;a massana in andorra go and call Cedric Gracia who has the bar and bike shop under the gondola station.. he knows all they reckon ;)

server dies… they are installing a new one today

Confuzzed.. u certainly are.. given the fight to get planning to build the dh track over conservation grade mountain.. if they had tried to excavate another route across they would never have got the go ahead from Scottish Heritage / Nature who would have obstructed planning consent probably.. in conservation terms wood work like that is a very temporary arrangement that when finished with the traces vanish with little action..

probably explains why Stu from MTBcut.tv has been hanging out with Orange at Eurobike and Interbike

there at the moment….. weather looks good for the weekend

I wonder how many here are relishing the option to ride up this rather than down … on a cx bike :)

Nose wheely of there indeed.. new red at Fort Bill, the folks at Nevis Range just went up with a helichopper and a camera… I do find long bits of wood work a bit tedious but i can feel my palms sweating just looking at it

I had two ti's and loved em, find the wtb rocket v better though… although no faux animal fur prints

to be fair loop 2 is not that hard you might prefer to take her around loop 2 then when rejoining / crossing the tarmac road send her back on it to Penmachno and ride the rest of loop 1 on your own including the hideous uphill downhill section

where do you live
me
no really
yes me

bit like
where's the next mtb race
Ae
I asked where the next MTB race is :)

Seriously folk Klaus Armstrong Braun is the newt loving member for the planet on the council. .full on green credentials.. the sort that ensures at public inquiries he turns up with branded Gucci clothing…

Anyway so much for being an a front to his Heritage he was born in German occupied Poland… and gets very offended when his many detractors refer to him as Kraut… there are some heritages we like to forget

Hardly crept up, first spotted this #trend 4 years ago on the streets of Madrid, ever since Ramones tops have been 10 a penny even without looking.. I still have a few originals back from 78 in good nick which are way to small for me and am waiting for the vintage retro tshirt fad to kick in so kids who must have the originals and not modern copies will be queuing up to buy them at well over the top prices… rocket to russia

I'm involved with a new Bmx track in Wales and it's hard work even though the council have been willing to give land and some money.

Firstly councils don't just hold land to give away to needy causes. It has a value and all councils are required to properly manage their resources for the fiscal well being of the council.

Try and find some worthless land ( initially steering clear of land with a pollution problem) because that will give the Council less problem offering for social use than land it could build industrial units on.

Next form a club or group and get active members.. petitions are a waste of time, despite what has been said elsewhere most councils struggle to find money for ongoing maintenance on facilities, Where as capital money through grants to build new facilities ( up until current economic woes) has been more readily available if your project sits in an area subject to some kind of social economic deprivation that the council is trying to eradicate. It is more likely a good project around social inclusion with training / equipment loan for disadvantaged youngsters will both attract funding however few councils will hang onto such a facility and pay to run it as they do not have the money.You will then need a business plan for how the group can organise activities and events that will generate revenue or bid for further grant funding to find the money to maintain the facility.

As much as they are worth not much talk to Welsh Cycling and ask if they are working with local councils as they may already have a door open they helped a lot with ours, Find a deprived area ask about moneys that it has available to grant fund a bmx track. Landfill tax can help and we were able to ride on the back of a planning gain from the creation of a new recycling site on an old landfill site meant the council had a lot of spare earth to move , and needed some kind of public recreational facility to get planing approval in a plot of land adjacent to one of the poorest housing areas in Wales. The whole thing was officer driven but it was important the politicians were got to support at an early stage before any potential opposition to the track chose to lobby them for support to stop the whole thing. It was not easy because politicians these days avoid taking responsibility for anything that might turn controversial or money loosing as it looses votes

our biggest problem is with no ready made bmx scene we have been unable to get a group of riders to take over the running of the track which is now jeopardising whether it happens in the end.

Brings you back to the problem of petitions most who sign one will not wag a finger if then they have t ogive physical support to get it… these things are not just built and opened.. when they were we had the rash of white elephant bmx and skate parks back in the 70's

loved this one –

My main complaint is insufficient defined corners and jump opportunities on BW and footpaths (to be fair – they do exist, I just wish there were more)

I'll write to my council suggesting they build more jumps on footpaths..

Problem with developing bridleways to act as trails for thrill seeking cyclists is
a) they are public highways and those responsible for them have a primary responsibility to ensure they are safe for those persons legally prescribed to be able to use them ( walkers / Cyclists), not gnarly for two wheel trailhogs
b) this does not include cyclists who simply are not breaking the law using bridleways
c) cyclists are in all cases meant to give way to horseriders and cyclists building berms to rail and hucks and gaps to be jumped hardly supports cyclists from doing this, a number of whom are either oblivious or deliberately ignore this requirement alienating them further from the sympathy of other users.

Here in North Wales over the years one of the most effective solutions to the menace of 4×4 let's off road boys by some councils has been to sanitise a track filling in ruts and grading. This tends to work well by driving them away once the challenge has gone, pleasing most everyone else but said 4x4ers. The idea has serious failings, it is expensive, can be an eyesore and difficult to achieve in remoter sites and as mentioned before ultimately the worst enemy of tracks is never the users, but ignoring maintenance and the weather and deterioration nicely sets in and they return to the same squalid state prior to improvement with time.

There are groups out there, users and landowners, who would encourage councils to instigate similar measures to deal with some of the problems some MTB riders are seen to cause.

I thought this thread was a about a sort of 'forum ride' group trip over to meet the mtbr forum lot for a bit of argy bargy and a ruck, fight club stylee..

New trails opening all the time at Llandegla. Llandegla will replay your efforts with a good fun ride, i ride a hard tail around the whole lot without any problems as well as a g spot. If you want to get your pal bitten with mtb then Llandegla is the one, CyB for novices the long routes the climbs can be a bit too much if they are not enthusiastic

I mostly gave up on radio 1 when they hired Janice Long the first time… then was loosing serious interest when they started messing Peel around until he passed away,I think I have not heard it since Peterson was stopped from having regular shows…

Finally readopting my old punk DIY ethics of youth, I now have my own broadcasting company….. iTrip on an iPod feeding the car radio.. in the house iTunes and AirTunes on the airport expresses means for the first time I get to listen to the many thousands of songs I spent more money on music in a month than many of you spend on bike bling in a year booming through my hifi, with last fm and record label mailing lists i dont even need buy a paper to discover new stuff…

I have 3 Garmin GPS's etrex oregon and cts 60 and all three are rock solid reliable and last well, one of which left on the car roof, flew off the roof at about 50 never noticed only spotted this thing on the road driving the other way a few hours later when that sinking feeling hit me about where my gps was… still working despite what ever drove over it… you wont be able to fool me with your subject nonsense title

another one of those brain out of gear rants 0/10 ppe

I had the luck to ride gee's, stannies and a couple of others world cup bikes down the restaurant staircase at a continental world cup last year when they were having a ' I've got the plushest fox 40's" contest I still cant get over just how plush the forks are and had great difficulty in deciding who's was the plushest, certainly a lot better than an out of the showroom oem set.

I wonder if this thread will limp on to 1000 or xmas?

as I like both U2 and Oasis

mmm drive a Volvo and ride a Marin too? :)

as I like both U2 and Oasis

mmm drive a Volvo and ride a Marin too? :)

This thread has all the makings to turn into a good turf war…. which forum to post a link to I wonder???

CG not had time to read through every post but it looks there is a lot of useful advice. When you say you have tried skills courses that did not help.. was any of these at Coed Llandegla, if not ask them, they also run women only rides that might provide both the incentive, lack of pressure and helpful advice that will see you crest your fear.. http://www.coedllandelga.com 01978 751656

remember it is all about gravity, everything drops down and it helps you, your bike will go down anything you throw it off, all we try to do is ensure there remains a modicum of directional control and style, whilst to everyone else it might look like we are about to have a nasty crash:)

One US airline tried to charge Geoff Kabush $200 to take his bike to the Worlds in Australia last week, he came over all cute to the checkin chick and she waived the fee

lol scaredypants

I gave up by loosing interest on magazines years ago, ST has been the only one to restore it mostly due to the rootsy photography making your own back yard look somewhere exotic. I had a run in many years ago with one of the main players who produced an article on a ride that not only was not on rights of way, it went right through land belonging to a landowner who provided part of it as a popular course for the National Points Series and was somewhat pissed off nobody had even spoken to him. The resulting conversation with the rather juvenile publisher showed they did not care all about mountain biking they were bothered with was circulation and content that would achieve that, that was until WH Smith took every copy off the shelf after they got wind of a potential injunction from the landowners which caused the publisher to contact me ranting that nobody should do that to them and what right had we to do that. They agreed to print a retraction but the promised ' we got it wrong signs' never materialised to be posted on site.

I personally feel sorry for the magazines most of the staffers I have met are really nice people with the luck to have a job that funds the hobby and keen to promote it as much as enjoying the lifestyle. The problem for al lof them is that their readership is not a fixed niche that allows the entire content to mature in line with ( ST is an exception which is why I like it) the riders own appetite. They all need to attract new readers which for most means picking up beginners who will stay with the magazine for 2 or 3 bike upgrades until they eventually decide they know better, no longer need the reviews, know where to ride and leave, the only constant is that new riders will come along and need beginners advice, the longer term readers have life style changes or discover more niche mags better suit their needs.

If you can't get along with what the mags are printing your option is really only to stop buying them, they will either get along the same with new readership and without you or have to change to regain lost readers

Bog Trotters in Water Splash shocker, what would they do if the droughts came back :)