#brexitbetrayal still the funniest thing on Twitter right now

you made my day.

If uber can get 500,000 signatures in 48 hours so can we. #Brexitbetrayal

I can best describe #TheresaMay as a Rottweiler with no teeth. #Useless #Brexit #BrexitBetrayal #BrexitShambles

At a time when UK needs a churchillian Leader, we have two utterly ******* useless traitors. @theresa_may & @jeremycorbyn #BrexitBetrayal

(my redaction)

This Brexit shambles is all double Dutch to me! #BrexitShambles #Brexitbetrayal #brexit #brexitspeech #lies #EU #StopBrexit #florencespeech

Jamba is polite and intelligent. I’ve conversed with many Brexies, he’s a rare example.

I still haven’t figured out what he’s on though. He’s bright, but nuts.

Brexies being very clear, particularly when it was pointed out that folk may be changing their minds, that folk are not allowed to change their minds.

Democracy?

There’s a David Davis quote on this.

Ah here http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-davis-countries-democracy-brexit-vote-article-50-second-referendum-a7629636.html

However, it has emerged that in a 2012 speech on the European Union (EU), Mr Davis said: “If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy”.

@deviant I think fundamentally you’re a nationalist, your identity is tied to where the borders are. Personally I put membership of the world’s biggest free trade area, and the right to freely live work and study in the wonderfully diverse continent, above which city the court is in.

Immigration – the govt has had decades to deal with this, most comes from outside the EU, and many Brits move to the EU too, counterbalancing that.

I don’t believe there was any prospect of UK being in the Euro. And the police/army thing, _if_ it had happened we’d have vetoes or opt-outs. (By leaving, we don’t).

As for the racists & xenophobes, you’re not, but they voted with you (or you with them) to produce the win. Worth a thought.

Gotta have a free press, but power brings responsibility.

Everyone has to have a say, our ancestors struggled to achieve that.

Millions of people are happy with the result (tho many less than voted for it I feel).

Hard circle to square.

This issue raises very many questions about the democratic process to my mind, biased media influence chief among them. The generational divide raises many questions too, the ability of the old to decide the future of the young against their will too.

Watch the Adrian Chiles doc and hear what those leave voters say (“lots of little shops”, “6 kids social housing, can’t get a job that pays because of the Polish”). Or that one from Doncaster where the woman’s voting leave because she’s angry about the 80s miner’s strike.

These people are deciding our kids’ futures.

(I wish I had good answers).

ICYMI, Moody’s downgrades UK again: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41369239

Faisal Islam says “… this is the first ever time a major rather has cut us to third rank”

UK lost its remaining AAA rating (S&P) 4 days after Brexit vote – but this is the first ever time a major rather has cut us to third rank

— Faisal Islam (@faisalislam) September 23, 2017

perhaps I’m just a bit of a pessimist.

but I don’t buy the “relax it’ll all work out OK in the end”. I’d point people thinking that way to read some history, it can all go horribly wrong.

Someone on here asked a page or two ago how the plug will be pulled on Brexit

That was me. The think is, we’ve left when the transition starts not when it ends.

This also assumes the EU agree to the transition, which basically means we get a 2 year head-start on competing with them. That’s by no means certain.

I can see also though it may work for the EU as it allows more orderly moving of the supply lines, car factories, banking jobs, brain drain etc onto EU turf. Better than being rushed. The fabled death of 1,000 cuts for the UK.

1.2m was the swing to leave

No, 600,000.

I like to see it this way – 33 people in a room, 16 go to each wall, the one left in the middle, probably mis-informed thinking their health service will get more money, or just doing a “protest vote”, gets to make the call.

It’s that fine.

Will of the people my ****.

Question is whether the govt could ever bring itself to vote for it.

Yeah there’s the rub.

I’m following the wrong people.

Aaron Banks.

you’re right – but what’s going to make them do it?

Brexit – going going …..

As I have said previously it’s a lost deal , no sale, delete it from both prospects and pipeline.

The only question now is… who pulls the plug ?

Theresa or Jeremy (maybe Keir ?)

describe the mechanism by which you think this is going to happen please …. because I want to believe you, but I don’t.

at some point, the govt would have to rescind A50 and the 27 agree to it. I just can’t see it.

hardcore Brexit toys well out of the pram over May’s speech. so it’s achieved something.

If we do crash out without a deal, what will happen at the ports?

I can’t imagine the French flattening Calais to build extra custom posts.

I am more amazed that so many people are STILL in denial

Let’s call it disbelief.

Sounds like May’s speech will be “it’s not us it’s you”.

To which the EU’s response will be “it’s you that’s leaving, it’s you that triggered A50 with no plan, you sort it out”.

Sad day for our country, now an item of ridicule for our neighbours and ex-friends, and in the wider world.

The damage we do – for nothing, there is no upside here – will not be forgotten, our kids will have to live with this for decades.

Such a waste.

I thought we were getting cake & unicorns?

you will, if only you would get behind it.

It’s gonna be fine guys, I found a hi-tech UK made product the world is begging for.

and a plan that basically consists of some colours and a catchphrase.

today’s winner.

I need a small isolated, easily defeated country

Ireland?

TM might actually say something important in Florence tomorrow

“Brexit means Brexit”.

“Strong and stable”.

“No deal is better than a bad deal”.

“Deep and special partnership”.

Right that’s that done. What’s next?

What like some kind of bespoke deal ?

Like we do as members.

Odd how few people voted to support his view

FPTP – most votes in most constituencies are in a 2 horse race.

Guardian reckons is gossip spread by his enemies. Says ask the Times and Spectator, where he’s worked.

One prominent Italian commentator captured the mood of regret this way: “To be alone in 1940 among the enemy was heroic, to be alone in 2017 among friends is absurd.”

source: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/19/theresa-may-brexit-eurosceptic-italy-europe-speech-florence

(& Norway’s sovereign wealth fund is how much per head ….? that’s gotta help!)

darrell I recall the Norwegian PM saying they have to abide by the rules without any say in making them and advising the UK to vote Remain.

Anyway, good for you that you are out of this cluster****.

No one’s pretending Brexit won’t damage the EU (it’s another reason it’s stupid, why damage your neighbours?) but 10s of thousands of well paid finance jobs – the people who actually net contribute, a good proportion of the UK’s brain drainers, and a few car factories will sweeten the pill though.

where do you live darrell and why out?

Obviously not very hard or you are dimmer than a Brexit voter.

Classy.

I do think that a lot of 65 to 85 year old blokes in this country have been hankering after a war that they were to young to participate in.

Some truth in this I think. Watch Farage’s Twitter, there’s lots of “here’s me hanging out with some jolly veterans”, basking in the reflections of someone else’s heroism basically (I don’t believe he ever did any military service himself). It’s aimed at somebody.

that was fun.

Imagine the result reversed, we wouldn’t have suddenly joined Schengen and Euro (“hard remain”), and we’d have had a very serious conversation about how the concerns of the 48% could be addressed too. Anything else would be undemocratic.

But for the hardcore 10% on the real winning side, reasonableness doesn’t exist. Right is might Might is right and the Tory party needs them so they get their way.

Staggering.

Well given the result, TurnerG, was 16-17, the absolute softest of Brexits would actually have reflected that fabled beast “the will of the people”.

But we’re not getting that, we’re getting a 99-1 Brexit.

That there is a huge problem and why people like me are so intransigent. We’re treated like we stayed in bed that day and the “reasonable leave voter” as if they are hardcore Faragist.

(lol @sbob).

Haha STW chat forum thread becomes self-parody.

haha, it may be obvious to you and me, but we can’t take anything for granted around here.

More, as the terms of any trade deal will be much less favourable then we have/would have in the EU. We’re ripe for the plucking.

We’ll be bending over for all these guys and the govt will sign anything with “trade deal” written on the cover to preserve the red top bragging rights. What’s inside will not me material.

–

^^ subhead “Brussels spokeswoman says situation is evolving as two men remain arrested following raids in Belgium and the Netherlands”

so it’s the opposite to what you suggest, it’s potential criminality of disregarding the regs.