Whilst there were no doubt some deeply unpleasant incidents, there appears to have only been a very short time spike.

watch the film.

@binners IMO they plan to walk out, always have done.

The people who voted to take your kids rights off them.

Remember guys, their vote counts the same as yours, that’s democracy!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/magazine-41584532/the-truth-about-hate-crime-and-brexit

Led by a PM who doesn’t know how she would vote if there was another referendum.

or does but wouldn’t say.

and she certainly failed to go Brexit-all-in when given the chance.

Are the quitter channels apoplectic this AM?

Leaver blog: http://peterjnorth.blogspot.co.uk/2017/10/i-dont-like-this-brexit-but-i-will-live.html

Basically “a 10 year recession, bring it on”.

I assume the author is financially comfortable.

@whitestone, love that.

Here, last song of last performance.

for @redsox, the Jonny Cash version of I Won’t Back Down. Not a wasted word or note. Class.

Sad face.

Than you Tom.

Oh – is France militarily stronger than Germany so pulls some rank (if you excuse the analogy)?

will require individual national identities to be replaced by an ‘EU’ identity, then and only then will people be fully integrated in the ‘EU state’

I don’t take that as a given, personally I can hold both thoughts in my head at the same time.

Though if obliged to choose between locked in the UK with Faragist Brits, or rubbing along with my French, German, Italian & Irish mates, I’d chose the latter. The personal bonds are way stronger than any nationality based one.

I do think this issue decided a lot of leave voters though, hang on a leaver forum and you will soon see a lot of “I am British not European”, as if they are exclusive.

@reign_man ta for checking in.

I see your concerns, even if I don’t share them all.

Is your position “down with all of that” and get out? Do you see upsides to membership? Do you see downsides to leaving?

Actually wilburt my mum voted out because she felt sorry about “what we did to Australia in the 70s”.

And a bunch of people thought they were voting for more money for the NHS, that was all.

I suspect a Labour managed Brexit, if it came to that, would be less antagonistic and smoother. They’re capable of dialogue and internationalism, the ToryKIP aren’t.

^^ /thread

maybe you should accept that Brexit is not a Tory issue

The appalling execution of Brexit is a Tory issue. Glib, false, phrases like “citizen of nowhere” and “never felt truly at home in the EU” are ****ing Tory issues!

But it’s hard to be sure if you just vanish into thin air..

He’s in Germany looking for a job.

maybe for once they had just cause. maybe if it had been dealt with we wouldn’t be in this mess now.

UKIP got nearly 13% of the vote share in the 2015 GE but only 1 seat (out of 650).

I don’t blame their supporters for being angry!

(Cons got 3x as many votes and 330 times as many seats!)

Perhaps if UKIP had had a reasonable representation in Parliament and faced off against they could have been managed and kept in place. Instead of the creepy reverse takeover of the Tories that possibly gave them much more influence.

(Greens and to a degree the LDs very short changed too).

(note: I haven’t named the exact country of their origin, that’s not the point, although I expect 99% will miss that point}

the point, presumably, is you are not racist. not necessary, it’s accepted as given of course.

What line of work Solo, what happened?

(I’m not a lefty).

And from the youth vote that is their only hope of a return to power. Young people don’t want a Labour party that wants out of Europe.

They’re betting they’ll still carry the youth vote as being the best alternative to the Tories.

Reality is, in most places, any vote other than the 2 big parties is “wasted”. (Actually it’s not, Brexit proves that because the UKIP votes still had an effect).

Ultra is a good word, descriptive but not derogatory. Like it.

Notable headline pic – 2 activists at Momentum rally also have very prominent “Brexit is Bollocks” stickers.

Somehow that circle has to be squared, Lab must know a lot of their boost at the GE came from anti-Brexit youth.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/24/momentum-brighton-labour-party-conference-the-world-transformed

I reckon that despite the bluster about be a govt-in-waiting they are secretly hoping to stay out of power for a fair while yet

Yeah I’m also wondering if Tories are happy to hand it over for a term and let Lab carry the can on Brexit.

There are plenty of reasonable politicians. But they’re not the ones with the ruthless streak to fight their way to the top of the Darwinian scrap pile.

Even if that were to happen they’re up against Farage (funded by Banks), a formidable team who know the devil has the best tunes and how to sing them, oh and backed by the red tops immersive bleating. (And Lee Hurst it seems).

Gonna clean the bathroom. At least something I do today will have a benefit!

Remain is full membership as we have now. Seems very clear to me. “Remain on the sides” is leave, just moderated.

Voting “leave” meant different things to different groups of people, many of which are mutually exclusive.

yes. in this sense, remain is homogenous, leave is splintered, so remain, of several options in the table rather than 2, clearly won.

there was a great video on access vs membership from on e of the Parliamentary committees, can’t find it!

example …

access: airlines can fly to EU airports from outside EU, but not within the EU. second rank on landing slots because the best go to members.
membership: airlines can fly within the EU and members get preferential access to landing slots regardless of nationality.

Martin Amis: Brexit ‘a denial of British decline’
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-41348509/martin-amis-brexit-a-denial-of-british-decline

A very valid POV I think.

We realised.

Predictably and regrettably, yes. There is no painless way forwards from where we are now.

Possibly Cameron could have calmed things down by staying in office for a while and attempting some deft expectation management. But that’s conjecture.

Apparently Farage is going to form a new party to save us from the #brexitbetrayal

Good, bring it on, let’s have them out in the open. I would prefer UKIP/whatever had their own representation rather than the reverse takeover of other parties, which I think amplifies their influence***.

Like the Greens and LDs, UKIP were hobbled by the FPTP system. If we want to talk about failures of democracy that’s the place to start.

*** “Fear of UKIP is worse than UKIP”. I hope.

yup @igm – I suspect an implementation that reflected the closeness of the result would be palatable to most.

haha chaps maybe we should all take a day off from this thread.

for the record ^^ that doesn’t mean ignore the referendum result, of course not, what happened happened. it’s acknowledged, it has been acted upon, but it’s 100% legitimate to question it and suggest checking again now the implications are becoming clear.

attempts to deny the wishes of the majority of voters.

my conscience is clear on this one because I don’t believe brexit is the wish of the majority of voters.

it was a very tight result, demographically the electorate is going pro-Remain every day due to the generation gap, a lot of people voted to get more money for the NHS (they were duped) and a bunch of people voted leave as a Cameron/austerity/Tory protest vote thinking remain had a shoe-in. And there’s not even a consensus on what leave means anyway, there’s a huge spectrum on that.

they’re right, she didn’t.

May hit the net, ball still firmly in UK’s court.

To stretch the analogy, by asking for a transition without offering anything, she gave the EU an automatic serving machine.

I suspect it’s all a build up to a toys out of pram walk-out.

I voted to leave the EU, not cling onto it with my fingertips. #florencespeech
Disgusted with our politicians. Not worth cup of cold piss.

https://twitter.com/2010LeeHurst

Well he is funny.