So you’d need 1,000,001 to change their mind now, and I’m not the only one.

1,000,002 actually.

such as?

Indeed. Do share. It would be a huge weight off my mind to have it changed!

Fair point, vote switchers and persuading non-voters to vote are factors too. I was being a bit trite with the 1 million figure.

Also some people seem to switch to leave because they see it as undemocratic to campaign against Brexit. I think they’re wrong, democracy didn’t stop on 24 June 2016, but that’s a factor too.

slowoldman said:

We just need a million reasonable people to change their minds about their vote, and some assistance from demographics.

Plus a GE or referendum?[/quote]

Yes probably. I think for the EU to accept revocation of A50 it would need to seen as a constitutionally valid act, as A50 was by the leave referendum. (We can dispute that if we want, but from the EU’s POV it’s valid).

From the EU’s POV movement with the EU is freedom of movement, not immigration.

(The perception gap here is an issue the EU are a bit blind too IMO and they could do with revisiting it).

ignore the brexit cultists matjg

all good here thanks Kimbers.

Ta ocb, I like a bit of Roy!

Can’t help wondering if all the angst is a male thing?

No it’s because most people here are men.

Binners said:

I think May is very very weak. She’s no leader.

Spot on. I see her as none too smart and promoted beyond her competence. She’s insecure, she knows this whole thing is stupid, but her remedy is to lash out. “Brexit is Brexit” – is that the best you can do?

There are lots of attempts to paint her as the new Thatcher. She’s no Thatcher.

Brexit can be stopped if enough people want it. The EU would accept revocation of A50 (I believe) if it had some sort of constitutional backing such as a GE or referendum.

Matt – agreed. Now how are we going to make that happen? (it’s more than a million by the way – it has to be a landslide. But conceptually I agreed)
I think I know – and it isn’t by arguing with idiots who choose not to listen.[/quote]

1. Don’t give up. It’s all to play for.
2. Correct anyone saying it’s all over.
3. Keep talking about it. Be reasonable.
4. Don’t bother with the idiots. You can’t argue with idiots, but you can help others see they are idiots. http://www.iflscience.com/editors-blog/its-very-difficult-to-argue-with-an-idiot-says-professor-brian-cox/all/
5. Remember the young do not want this. We owe it to them to do our best to stop this blighting the best decades of their lives. And have confidence that demographics is working for us. Every single day crusty old leavers leave the electorate and optimistic youngsters join it. It’s a very significant effect. The young aren’t so bothered about immigration as they grew up alongside, or as, immigrants.
6. Don’t bang on about racism. Sure, all racists voted leave but by no means are all leave voters racist. It just puts peoples’ backs up.
7. Acknowledge the EU’s faults, it’s not perfect but that’s OK we are not fundamentalists. Some leaver concerns are reasonable IMO, but not all attributable to the EU, and leaving won’t fix them anyway.
8. See 1.

Landslide? 52-48 would suffice surely?

I love the David Davis quote “A democracy that cannot change its mind is not a democracy”.

And of course Farage “’52-48 result would be unfinished business'”, http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017

I think I’ve worked out how to stop Brexit.

Brexit can be stopped if enough people want it. The EU would accept revocation of A50 (I believe) if it had some sort of constitutional backing such as a GE or referendum.

We just need a million reasonable people to change their minds about their vote, and some assistance from demographics.

No way is this over guys. The quitlings are just trumpeting this to knock you back, they know they are vulnerable.

Keep going.

Man tries to burn EU flag. Flag doesn’t burn because of EU regulations on flammable materials

https://www.indy100.com/article/eu-flag-uk-burning-regulations-flame-retardant-article-50-brexit-7657391

“Despite its trade deficit with Germany, Britain is as economically dependent on Germany as vice versa – and a lot more dependent on the EU as a whole. Even German businesses, which are deeply linked to the EU via supply chains and investment, value the integrity of the single market and the EU more than tariff-free access to the UK market.”

http://www.cer.org.uk/publications/archive/policy-brief/2017/berlin-rescue-closer-look-germanys-position-brexit

etc etc

he’s just trolling.

Nobody says Germany will cave in under pressure from their car industry.

This argument has been used many times by leavers aiming to show “they need us more than we need them”.

I do and I prefer Toyota. German car are fine but just not for me, not sure why people are making such a big deal of German car firms decision tbh. FFS! 10% is peanuts.

In order to demonstrate the leaver claim that “they need us more than we need them and Germany will cave under pressure from the car firms” is false.

Hope that’s not too complicated to follow.

I’ve read several times that the big German car firms will prioritise EU integrity over exports to the UK.

& it’s not like their sales are going to stop, even if they take a hit.

Enough people voted leave due to the NHS-bus for the leave campaign director to think they may not have won without it.

Binners he said “we” – not “some of us”.

Plenty of people voted leave because of the bus and other reasons. Some just as an anti-London protest.

40% of Games Companies are considering relocation

and

“Hi-tech financial firms flee UK amid doubts over Brexit
Leading ‘fintech’ player says ‘the exodus is beginning’ as members of £6bn industry start seeking other bases in Europe “

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/25/brexit-fintech-exodus-begins-london-eu-luxembourg

The Referendum made clear we wanted Freedom of Movement to end

No it didn’t. There were many and varied reasons people voted leave.

The referendum result showed a near 50/50 divide so I would have hoped for government policy to reflect that in some way.

Spot on.

Instead we get a govt behaving as if the referendum was 99-1, with all 99 being Farage.

The result was 16 to 17. Put 33 people in a room, split them, and one gets the casting vote. Their decision is implemented on all, in the hardest possible scenario.

Democracy my ****. In a democracy, everyone’s view matters.

Yeah, I had this a lot from leavers “if you love the EU so much, go and live there”.

Sure, sell house, take daughter out of school, find work school and home in another country.

Then, March 2019, get told to leave?

Bloody newts, sitting around being alive and holding us back.

Well you could help make it happen. Email Verhofstadt. There’s a petition on the EU website somewhere, and also Jo Maugham is doing something on this.

Ask for it.

It hasn’t happened but it’s a Verhofstadt proposal. Fingers crossed but hopes not too high.

It would be a smart move by the EU though. At the macro level, the smarts and wealth generators of this country voted remain, the losers and dead wood voted leave.

(Yes I realise there are exceptions. I mean broadly).

Solo’s just trolling. I should have known better.

I’m thinking of the restrictions placed on my child’s future, by others, for no benefit to anyone.

Pardon me for the selfishness.

It’s not about policy, it’s personal. I never voted to take anything from anyone.

Playlist: Ryan Adams Starting to Hurt https://open.spotify.com/track/0w2GcdrBdiIz7JZMCgLGVe

While not caring a hoot, for those for who the EU wasn’t working.

Not true. I have tradesmen friends who voted leave because of the effect of immigrant labour on their incomes. I think they made a mistake in the big picture, but understand their feeling.

But what’s sad is damage to the economy will cancel out any benefit from labour shortages. They’re not going to get what they want.

I see no upside here Just damage.

Remainers participated in a democratic process and by doing so implicitly agreed to accept the result of the vote.

We were obliged to participate. Had we not we would still have the result imposed.

& I never agreed to give up my FOM rights, or those of my child. The right to freely travel live work and study in the world’s most prosperous free trade area and the crucible of western civilisation. Thousands of years of culture to share in, landscapes from the Scandi tundra, the Alps, the deserts of Spain and more.

Whereas you (presumably) voted to do that to us, specifically against my consent. You voted to take something from me and my child.

It’s stupid, it’s personal because it’s something you did directly to me, and we’re not about to get over it.

Angry? **** yes.

Imagine a PM smart enough to say “Your citizens are secure with us and we’re with you on security and defense. Now, about trade …”

Imagine.

We can check out any time we like, but we can never leave?

Endless A50 limbo? No I can’t see it, they’ll want it settled.

We aren’t going to change our national mind prior to the GE.

We might.

Angry teenagers join the electorate every day, oldies depart.

Lots can happen.

But your points are valid too. After we leave it certainly gets a lot harder. In due process we go back to being a new applicant nation.

So:
* let the jubilant Brexiteers have their little day of triumph, they can never say the referendum result wasn’t “respected” (cough, I prefer to say acknowledged)
* bide a little time for their plans to unravel when confronted with reality
* understand that in no way is this over, don’t let them shout you down – they’re doing that because they know they are weak.

No way is this over. Today is not VE day, it’s Dunkirk.

This picture suggests the tide is already turning:

Anyone who looks at this graph and concludes it's all over is delusional. pic.twitter.com/hWMwt1Odvu

— Jo Maugham QC (@JolyonMaugham) March 29, 2017

I think this comes down to whether the EU actually want us to stay (and they may not).

My expectation is that before the leave date, the UK could, in practice, change its mind and the EU would accept that.

Philosophically I don’t think the EU has a desire or means eject a member against its will and A50 doesn’t mention it.

Tusk’s face tells the story of how he feels – and note he also made a point of mentioning the 48% at the very beginning of his speech. (In 9 months May has never done that).

Experienced politicians know tides can turn very fast and the EU is better with the UK in.

So I don’t think it’s down to if the EU want us to stay, it’s down to us, within the next 2 years, to ask to.

Maybe we should cosy up to our non-EU neighbour Norway. Still, what they want with a bunch of knuckle draggers?

Did they not already threaten to veto UK joining EEA?

Here is why… repeated across the UK

Old people ignorant of the consequences of their vote, who expect the steelworks to come back?

@jambalaya why do you think your POV is in such a minority here yet managed to secure an (albeit tiny) majority in the referendum? Serious question.

Do something positive today to make yourself better.

I took an old Buddleia to the dump.

Take that Brexiters.