@convert we’ll never know as he wouldn’t even start a conversation.

I’m building a FS+ at the mo, won’t be anything like 30lb though! Yes it’s a different league, but the Genius is still a light bike which was kind of my point.

I didn’t need to. The price I’m willing to pay doesn’t come into this discussion. I might have paid full price if he could justify why I should, but he closed off the conversation immediately and even cut me off mid sentence.
If anyone knows a UK shop who lists XTR boost components please do shout as I still need the full group set aside from BB and pedals! I also need a finishing kit which wasn’t included in the £1600 list…

I’m 90KG and have always had light bikes which I ride hard. Never broken any components at all and don’t know anyone who has. I’m not obsessed with it but I do prefer lighter bikes. Current XC bike is 21lb and takes my weight at full pelt down and up Welsh mountains. Why would I choose a heavier bike other than saving money on components? Nothing wrong with saving money but don’t pretend high end parts are less capable due to weight!

What do you mean by trail oriented? To me trail bike just means heavy XC bike that may or may not be stronger but is otherwise an XC bike.
That said, you could put your XC bike on an uplift trailer. XC bikes tend to be ridden up the hills more :wink:

Just for clarity I wasn’t asking for a price match and hadn’t even asked for discount at the point he said no discussion.

Also I feel a few people may have misunderstood what RRP means. This is the manufacturer recommended price (because price fixing is illegal in EU, US have MSRP which they have to pay). The RRP on an m8000 rear mech is 89.99 for instance. Literally nobody pays that price but the shop still makes good margin. I’m not trying to eat their lunch I’m trying to buy at a fair and reasonable price and to give my local shop the business rather than a German shop. Some of the replies seem to imply that’s mean of me, but I think many believe I’m asking for further discount from the shop price (59.99 in the case of the XT mech). I don’t ask for discount from the shop prices other than price matching when I find it cheaper and in stock elsewhere. I’d also account for delivery costs in price matching as I want my local shop to succeed. It appears they are less bothered than I am.

Also worth mentioning I do all of my own maintenance and always have. Two of the three bikes I bought in 2016 couldn’t change into the small sprocket on delivery despite the shop insisting on a pre delivery check/service. (Different shops to be fair) so I don’t trust “pro” mechanics as much as I trust myself. I did work in a bike shop as a mechanic for a while in my youth so not completely out of the loop as far as retail and bike shops go.

Say the OP suddenly changed his mind and no longer wanted XTR hubs and the shop is lumped with an expensive set of hubs it is more than likely nobody else will want.

Er, no, it would be special order so pre-paid and no returns aside from warranty. If it ended up on their shelf they would still have my money.

I’d have quoted the online price and asked how close they could get. I happily pay a little more to support them and get the local service but how much more is the issue.

Yup, that’s what I was doing. Even told him I happily pay a premium to buy locally and it was a flat, cold no to any discussion on the topic. There was no trying their best, no chat about what I wanted, no discussion of anything at all. It was a “you’ll pay RRP as set by the supplier”. As I said earlier, there are literally no products in the UK listed at RRP even when they are new! The brand spanking new Dura Ace components which have only just started shipping are a good example. They are on pre-order but already the power cranks are listed at £150 off RRP. I’d suggest the market for Shimano’s first crack at a power meter is less than the market for XTR cranks that are 3mm wider than standard…

most LBS staff are on near min wage.

No wonder – they’re turning down free money. How much extra could the staff get with £450 than with £0? Minimum wage is £7.50 so that’s 60 hours of staff time paid for or a little bonus for the day.

What would I know though, apparently I’m clueless :roll:

Ranting customer in “clueless about retail” shocker!

Yup, I may be clueless, but someone has to take this profit and I thought I would offer it to them first since they’ve served me well other the last few thousand quid. In this instance they didn’t even want to have a conversation about it, so Germany will improve their economy slightly instead and the UK will lose out again. The EU isn’t the reason this country is doing badly, the British are!

@moe I can’t even find parts listed for RRP in the uk. Look at any bike shop price list and compare to RRP.

@muffinman and now they don’t even have that sale. See my point? If I’d needed them to recommend parts, look up part numbers, if it was something oddball I wouldn’t have an issue. This is Shimano kit that just happens not to be on their list probably because they couldn’t be arsed adding it.

@13thfloormonk I’m not asking for crazy discounts though I’m asking for what would be normal price for the items if they were stocked. Nobody ever pays RRP for bike parts in the UK, and it’s easy to see what would and would not put them out of business by prices of every other product compared to retail. If bike shops can sell £2k bikes at £1k because they are last years model then 10% off a crankset is surely doable!

@ghostlymachine I’ve spent thousands in there in the last couple of years and never returned anything or complained. Never even needed advice from them as I do it all myself. Like I say, free money

I was the only customer in the shop, even if the profit dropped to £300 that’s 300 more than they were making before.
I’m fine with it, but I’ll be giving a very different response when people tell me to support my LBS in future. This would have been the 4th high end group set plus one bike from them I’ve bought in a year so it’s not like I’m not worth looking after!
Let’s support the retailers who want to stay in business through good business decisions :lol:

Those are already paid cynic-al. This is free business on top of what they usually sell. They literally just need to transact it and they get extra money.

If someone came to my house and offered me up front payment of £450 plus the cost of goods I’d order from Amazon on their behalf!

@toppers he said that was the margin. That means profit essentially since they need do almost nothing for that transaction.

@pj I don’t need value from them I need them to transact business. I don’t even need advice. This will boost their revenues and give them profit as well as appearing bigger to their suppliers so potentially getting better deals for themselves in future.
It’s literally a case of handing them money and them saying no thanks.

If someone offered me £450 I’d take it happily. That covers someone’s wages for the day…

Crankset (single, boost) is €342 (£289)while LBS sells the non boost for £263 rrp is £329. Hubs a similar story. I am not paying U.K. RRP for something I know never sells for that price!

@peterproddy are you trying to say there is so little profit in £1600 of high end parts that you’d actually lose money? I simply don’t believe that.

Nope fitting it all myself so purely parts.

Trouble is CRC and Wiggle don’t list boost parts either, only EU shops so nobody will price match these parts. The EU shops are selling for the same price as non boost so my assumption is that the buy price is identical.

I have an ice sticker on my helmet mainly aimed for use in construction industry

Those look brilliant, but possibly want one on the bike instead or as well as – the helmet usually disintegrates in an accident with cyclists! That said, nobody would probably look at the bike.

Nothing retro about these bikes! I do prefer my modern bikes though, possibly because I ride them more.

I’m pretty sure my 1996 Kilauea has been going up in value recently due to the “retro” bike thing. It does annoy me calling it retro as I still ride it and have had it from new! Titanium has gone up in value at the very least, so my Hope ti hub and USE seatpost are definitely worth more than they were, even if just for the materials :)

Yes, Red 2 was dry as a bone when I went last week. Trouble is it’s now got lots of exposed broken roots so you’ll want to keep an eye out to protect your tyres. It’s kind of like that scene in walking dead with the wooden spears buried in the dirt 8O

When I fitted my Hive it was the same back plate and the same pins – they are industry standard for the most part. Remove old receiver, install new one, job done.
They will have a wiring diagram, just turn off the mains to the boiler before you start, two screws at the bottom of the receiver and it lists off. No need to open up the boiler as the old receiver probably says what the pins are on the back :)

Sorry, wrong link, should be https://www.strava.com/segments/14605453

DON’T DO IT! 8O I remember the 90s and we used to just hit into things all the time because before disk brakes were invented bikes couldn’t stop. Literally just riding down the road and you’d hit into the house at the end.
My first MTB race was a disaster, huge pileup at the first corner. Wasn’t until 2000 that people were able to stop and MTB racing really started to pick up. :twisted:

Seriously though, properly set up canti brakes are every bit as good as disks. The leverage is massively bigger so the lower pressure is somewhat offset. Just use more than one finger on them and you’ll stop fine wet or dry. Also replace the blocks now and then as the rubber hardens over time and gives the impression your brakes don’t work

unless the Sunrace is a direct copy?

If you look closely the Shimano ramps are pretty unique from what I’ve seen so this is unlikely.

I didn’t know a chain had a right way around I will investigate! I assume I can tell by the logo on the chain? Pretty sure I got a KMC I’ll look in a minute

I’ve very little experience with KMC chains, I always use the Shimano ones which certainly have sides on them. Yes the logo is what to look for, on Shimano I think it should be readable when between sprocket and chainring from memory, not upside down and not with the smooth side out. When looking closely it’s obvious that a chain is sided when that’s the case as rounded bits are in different places.

The KMC instructions don’t mention direction so may not affect them after all. Shimano definitely do though, so be aware in future :)

I’d say it’s a case of shimano cassettes being less tolerant of setup than others

Interesting, OP confirms that this setup has no Shimano components in a position likely to affect the packpedaling…

Did you record the video using different bikes?

I have two set up with 1×11, one XT and one XTR. Both react identically and have smooth shifting up and down, and smooth pedalling back and forth. My road bikes are also very smooth shifting, as is my 1996 XT setup with thumbies so I’d be surprised if it’s just dumb luck!

I’ve no experience of Sunrace cassettes so won’t comment there. If you’re getting downshifts in both of the two largest sprockets then realistically 2mm won’t fix it at the chainring because otherwise the second biggest sprocket would already work.

The chainline is probably quite accurate these days, and based on various industry standards. If you have your spacers correct the line should be as intended.

Is it possible the rear axle (therefore dropouts) isn’t straight? If the axle is further forward on the right that might cause some trouble for you.

Are you certain your chain is on the right way around? (Yes, there is a right way around for most chains…)

Yep seems to happen on Shimano

Seriously, watch the video. It’s not a Shimano issue, it’s a poor mechanic issue!

@Scotroutes the XTR 1x crank isn’t a 2x part, there’s no thread for a second ring and the cover parts are different (and £100 a set!). XT I think (hope) they did do more sensibly

@Mike no, it’s really not a feature. Those who don’t understand bike maintenance keep saying that, but if you follow the setup guide Shimano provide it works flawlessly. I have m8000 and M9000 and both work perfectly up to the 46t sprocket. I made this video of forwards/backwards pedalling to show you all just how smooth it is and prevent this kind of BS being spread any further!

Youtube link

@Giant, have you downloaded a copy of the m8000 rear mech setup instructions? Did you also follow the BB and chainset/chainring instructions to the letter?
What parts do you have for cassette/mech/chainset/chainring/bb/chain?

I use the Boardman ones from Halfords Clicky. I like these because they are shorts by my old timer definition of the word so don’t rub my knees while cycling. They are very comfy with separate liner and have bags of pockets for stowing tools and spares to avoid having a backpack. They never catch on the saddle but are nice and loose to ride in where it counts.

GS and SGS are both fine for 11-46 in 1×11 setup (GS has 39t capacity). You can see the specs at Shimano Productinfo which tells you all the workable options.
Both support 2×11, and both only allow 11-42 in 2×11 configuration with 10 tooth difference up front.
SGS also supports 3×11 with 11-40 and 18 tooth difference up front.

I think the parking fees are a bargain, just curious how we now contribute to the trail maintenance to make it sustainable. I’m not even sure who funds the trails if I’m honest, but if it’s council money or Euro match funding (like Wales parks) then we’re in for hard times ahead!

There’s some of us who like that kind of thing…..

I think you misunderstood me. I love technical climbing. What I hated at Cwmcarn is that it’s unnecessarily over technical, and impossible to pick a rideable line without knowing the trail really well because avoiding a rock leads you to a bigger rock, or a tree stump, and avoiding both leads you to the next huge boulder one yard on. It’s a big climb, there’s no need to have trail features every two yards all the way up, and there’s certainly no need to have so many sections that are borderline unrideable. It’s this sort of thing that leads to uplifts becoming popular because nobody can be arsed getting up the slope.
As I said, I don’t know if it’s due to trail wear, or if the trail builders genuinely intended it to suck the joy out of your morning. The climb at Whites Level in Afan is nice and technical, just as big, but actually leaves room for enjoyment. Afan also doesn’t break your wrists on the descent if you lack full suspension!

It’s just as fun in the wet aside from Red 2 which turns into an ankle deep bog. The drainage is excellent and once you realise you can trust the trail builder not to kill you, you’ll realise just how crazy you can get while still being safe. There’s very little at Swinley that will catch you out so you can really let go and only worry about the trees :)
You’re right though, the blue is a slog but that in itself is rewarding and you can get some serious air on the drainage humps when up to speed!

I was kind of disapointed by Twrch when I rode it for the first time last week. It’s either really badly worn or the trail builders were trying to prove something and I couldn’t work out which. With the diversion in place there was very little joy to be had afer a needlessly technical climb. Perhaps the closed section makes it worthwhile, but the little downhill that remained was so slow as to make it boring. Admittedly I’m used to Swinley and like a bit of swoopy speed but Twrch really was the least fun trail I’ve ridden so far.