look up the “hidden” cocktail bars in Berlin – theres a few lists of them around on buzzfeed and the like.

There is also a former watch tower that you can climb up. Head to Potsdamer Platz and find a little street called Erna-Berger-Straße
Linky[/url]

The M8 has been out a good long time. the M9 is the current flagship phone that came out early 2015. The M10 is due out in March or April i think.

The main issues the reviewers had with the M9 simply seemed to be that it wasnt too different from the M8 – camera was improved, battery life improved.

I upgraded from the One M7 last Nov to the One M9. Really happy – battery wise, it’ll last a good 24hrs sometimes 48hrs compared to 8-10hrs of the M7.

Got a Dot View case for it, which is brilliant – can answer calls, control the music player etc. without having to switch on the phone.

great having a micro SD card slot again. so have put in the 64Gb card i had from when i had a Sensation XE which housed all my music.

It constantly amazes me how little Universities teach their architecture students about building construction. Personally, I think the first year should be a completely given over to Building Construction, not art thinly veiled as architecture.

When I did my part 1 at Strathclyde – it came up in 3rd year: the course was a study of “architecture” rather than preparing students to be architects.

I was told Bentleys did *not ever* break down

They dont.

They simply fail to proceed 😉

Same thing at club level racing. To start the formation lap (if we have one) the green flag is waved from the pit wall. Race start is the gantry red lights going out (or the Union Jack being waved in the case of Gantry lights failure.)

it was the same for me: the company i was at didnt want to buy the software – but they were looking at ways they could say they “did BIM” on tender forms as they did a lot of schools, and had started to lose out on tenders because they only had Autocad LT.
I paid for myself to go on a 2 day Revit course at the local Autodesk training centre, not cheap tho @ £800! but it was 1 to 1, and tailored to my skill level at the time, was pretty useful – and within 3 months i’d got a new job at my present practice that made the switch to Revit in 2008

Haze these might help with the detailing side:
First video is from AU 2012, so some bits are out of date, second is from this year’s AU. The vid isnt up yet, but the hand out is available to download
Using Autodesk® Revit® Architecture for 2D and 3D Building Enclosure Detailing
Attention to Detail: Creating Construction Details in Revit

The guy who lead the course even suggested you’re better off detailing in AutoCAD, which for me is where most of the work is.

if you have a load of standard cad details, then yep: you could link them into a detail view, then reference a call out to that detail view. To save you having to redraw it.

but if you don’t have those CAD details, then to me, its quicker to just pull a call out of the bit i need to detail and just add a few 2D detail components over the model, add the text – that way it’s detailing the exact bit i’ve modelled.
If i have several details the same, then i can add call outs that reference the original detail.

This is what i’ve been doing on a current project: a Supermarket extension to a shopping mall. we have all the standard details in CAD from the supermarket’s Architect, but there are changes to accommodate the restrictions of linking up with the existing building/site constraints. As such steel sizes differ in places – so the modelled information is an amalgamation of the standard CAD details, CAD details with additional 2D or 3D information from the Revit model, pure Revit details.
TBH – the CAD details are the ones that are causing the issues, as you forget they aren’t live, and dont update when there is a change in the model.

to the OP – working in a small practice, its going to be hard to convince the other guys. There is a bit more front end work before the drawings start to come forward – but once that’s done, you will race ahead – quickly pulling any section you need, adjustments to the plans, additional plans (just right click on a plan, duplicate… hey presto, you have a new plan that can be set to a GA plan scale, or detail plan scale)
But compared to the AutoCAD guys, you’ll beable to pull a 3D view of the model with a click of a button, you can create 3D sections by right clicking on the viewcube (when in a 3D view) and orienting to a section through the model.
you can quickly pull together door schedules, sanitary schedules which all update when you make changes to the model.

Revit, or the Bentley equivalent is basically just a big database with a graphical interface… like Windows is a graphical interface to navigate DOS. So while you see a wall… a door… a window…look at the properties, you can add a huge amount of data in there. you can grab many ready made families from the likes of the National NBS library, BIM Store, Autodesk Seek, ARCAT from big name manufacturers – the likes of Armatige Shanks/Ideal Standard, Kawneer, Schuco, Dorma etc. have created Parametric families of their products that you can just load into your revit model and place in the model and with a NBS plug in automatically populate your specifications

you can sign up to Project Expo (via Autodesk Labs) and in a click of a button export your model into a viewer that lets you walk around your building like it was a first person shooter game, or you could export the model into Lumion and quickly render up a still shot, or a short movie to walk through your project to communicate your design to your clients.

Going forward – April 2016 is the date that all Government procured projects need to be collaborative BIM (so called Level 2 BIM) i.e. there is a database of information they can use for Facilities Management for the ongoing maintenance of the building. Some clients and contractors are demanding the same thing now, (tho we did have a private client who demanded that we work to Level 3 BIM for his home build project, having read about the levels on the internet… we did have to point out that no one knows what Level 3 is yet, its a theory thats yet to be pinned down… tho the government is still aiming to get the industry to be working to Level 3 by 2020)

Finally – Railings in Revit suck. they are a pain in the backside. the interface to design a railing needs a major overhaul. Most of the time now we just have a basic railing and no posts, and draw the posts in, in 2D details.
And Topo – still really clunky, I will still visualise a site from a 2D cad topo survey with text markers noting the level. but it sometimes does help to be able to build up a 3D topo surface, so long as you understand it’s limitations

I was in this position 5 years ago when I was made redundant. Had been a ACAD user for 10 years when I started learning.
as a background, I always switched what ever version of ACAD I was using to a classic layout with ALL the icons around my drawing window (had a workspace saved and that carried over when upgrading versions)

Revit forces you to use the Ribbon, there is no alternative view.

to begin with if you are used to working with ACAD Architecture – then like ACADA, there are buttons for walls, doors, windows floors, roofs etc. so fairly quickly you can start to build something up.
One of the exercises i did was to take one of my projects and import the cad files into Revit, then trace over them with Revit objects.

I’d say a couple of weeks using it and you’d have the basics. 3-6 months (depending on how frequently you start using it) you’d be ok and start to ‘get’ revits rules. Then another 6-12 months learning how to break those rules, and learning how far to take a model in terms of detailing.

One thing i found very useful to learn was that – in ACAD you can select a command by typing a word in the command line (like “line” “Pline” etc. i never learnt the text commands, icons were quicker for me) clicking an icon or selecting something in a dropdown menu.
Revit you either click on the icon in the Ribbon or type a 2 letter shortcode. So:

Wall – WA
Door – DR
Floor – DL
Detail Line – DL
Dimension – DI
Align – AL
and to find the short cut, hover your mouse over the command on the ribbon and it’ll pop up with the short cut.
Comes to the point where I barely use the ribbon now.

oh, quick tip: to complete a run of dimensions to have to click in clear space: Esc cancels the command and loses all the dimensions you’ve just clicked on. I still make that mistake occasionally after 4 years!

Couple of books that might get you started: ‘Revit, No Experience Required’, ‘Introducing Revit’ and ‘Mastering Revit’

and some vids from Autodesk University this year:
Switching from AutoCAD to Revit A Discussion about Various Approaches & Work Flows
The Time Is Now—Switching from AutoCAD Architecture to Revit—The Right Attitude Is Everything
AutoCAD to Revit and Beyond: An Introductory Guide for Architects and Engineers

The two things that convinced me how great Revit was, 1. after being at the practice i am at now for a couple of months (this being the first practice that had more or less fully converted to Revit apart from some of the smaller projects) and i had to help out one of the architects on a small school, which had been drawn up in ACAD (just lines, now AEC items). Was just about to print the planning set of drawings when the architect decided he wanted to move a door 600mm so they could continue shelving in teh store right up to the wall.
That resulted in having to modify about 12 drawings, individually! open each drawing, move by 600mm save and close… and print each drawing individually.

Had it been modelled in Revit, i would have moved the door once. ctl+P, select all the planning drawings and printed. approx 30secs to do.

2. was working on a multi million bottling plant scheme for a cosmetics company – massive model, 3 people in the office all working on the model, daily sharing of the model with SE and M&E. The Tank Farm, where bulk materials were delivered needed to increase in height to suit the client’s amended tank size – we needed to increase the floor to floor height between level 2 and 3, while keeping the other levels above level 3 the same.
locked the dimensions to the upper levels, made the change to the F2F as required – everything changed for me: for example the stairs adjusted to the new F2F height as it was recalculated within the max riser set for the stair style. I think, all told, it took about 2 hours to make the change and check that nothing had broken in the process. Then could package the model up and send over to the S.E. We had an updated steelwork model the next day.

45k?

i bought my 04 Saab 9-5 in 2012 with 134k miles on the clock…. its now got 224,000 on the clock. Still lovely & no issues with the engine.

Romantic weekend… great hotel – brilliant food: Portmeirion

http://www.portmeirion-village.com/

Stay in one of the village rooms for a really special experiance of the place.

If its for the winter, they do a special rate for Nov/Dec/jan/feb – £130 for 2 course dinner, bed & breakfast for a double room in the village.

tho its closer to 2hrs from the wirral.
Beautiful place tho.

hegdehog – Member
Ben Coopers on TV!!

I did wonder if it was the same fella

have a look at Prezi[/url]

as ernie likes to pick out only part of the sentence to further his POV… the whole part of the answer.

I think we have gone through a period when too many children and people have been given to understand “I have a problem, it is the Government’s job to cope with it!” or “I have a problem, I will go and get a grant to cope with it!” “I am homeless, the Government must house me!” and so they are casting their problems on society and who is society? There is no such thing! There are individual men and women and[fo 29] there are families and no government can do anything except through people and people look to themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then also to help look after our neighbour and life is a reciprocal business and people have got the entitlements too much in mind without the obligations, because there is no such thing as an entitlement unless someone has first met an obligation and it is, I think, one of the tragedies in which many of the benefits we give, which were meant to reassure people that if they were sick or ill there was a safety net and there was help, that many of the benefits which were meant to help people who were unfortunate—“It is all right. We joined together and we have these insurance schemes to look after it”. That was the objective, but somehow there are some people who have been manipulating the system and so some of those help and benefits that were meant to say to people: “All right, if you cannot get a job, you shall have a basic standard of living!” but when people come and say: “But what is the point of working? I can get as much on the dole!” You say: “Look” It is not from the dole. It is your neighbour who is supplying it and if you can earn your own living then really you have a duty to do it and you will feel very much better!”

There is also something else I should say to them: “If that does not give you a basic standard, you know, there are ways in which we top up the standard. You can get your housing benefit.”

But it went too far. If children have a problem, it is society that is at fault. There is no such thing as society.[fo 30] There is living tapestry of men and women and people and the beauty of that tapestry and the quality of our lives will depend upon how much each of us is prepared to take responsibility for ourselves and each of us prepared to turn round and help by our own efforts those who are unfortunate. And the worst things we have in life, in my view, are where children who are a great privilege and a trust—they are the fundamental great trust, but they do not ask to come into the world, we bring them into the world, they are a miracle, there is nothing like the miracle of life—we have these little innocents and the worst crime in life is when those children, who would naturally have the right to look to their parents for help, for comfort, not only just for the food and shelter but for the time, for the understanding, turn round and not only is that help not forthcoming, but they get either neglect or worse than that, cruelty.

we took our old 2001 2.0t saab 9-5 to 185,000 before we sold it on and got a 04 Aero. Bought on 134,000miles in 2012. Now has 186,000 and still feels as good as new. Brilliant for our driving needs at the moment. get early 30s mpg being an auto. long runs will see upper 30s or 40 mpg

Alot of the rounds up i saw recently had the HTC One as the best phone of the year.
If the 4.7″ screen is a bit too big for you, then there is the One Mini with the 4.2″ screen.

Tho, the new One2 (or how ever it is titled) is due out in the next couple of months, so the One is likely to be discounted a bit from current costs soon.

Join Capital City Mens Roller Derby team – they are in Edinburgh

https://www.facebook.com/CapitalCityRollerDerby

heres a game to give an example:

pah to these fancy modern things – i’m still using one of these 1961 X246a lamps. parts are still available from tilley (and the design hasnt changed since the mid 60s

bright – yip,
rechargable – yep just add paraffin. but filled up so the paraffin is just below the pump hole, the lamp has enough fuel to run for several hours ech night for a couple of weeks (i tend to fill it at the start of the year and by the end of the motorsport season its getting low – thats about 15 nights camping)

durable – again – yip i have 2, the one that was made in 61 and one thats been in the family since 1974.

bonus – also acts as a tent heater too, great in winter.

dont take anything you cant afford to lose.

First nights are notorious for tent thefts – dont have alot of cash in the tent – normally there are cash machines on site. I take the position that yes its costs me £2 or so to get cash out each day, but thats a pitance compared to some of the guys in tents around us who had £100-£200 stolen over night on the first day of the festival by the gangs that buy tickets, knowing they can steal enough cash to make a profit.

deffinatly the bentley.

mixed kebab from the local take away

bombardier

team rock radio

could always try http://www.sorrymate.com

currently – eating a baggette from Lidl, drinking bombardier and watching the Berlin Bombshells take on the Gent Go Go Roller Girls in the WFTDA european championship which you can watch here: linky

A bit of Swiss folk

In addition to the OP, can anyone recommend a canvas tent which is the size mentioned but that isn’t a bell tent?

there is frame tents like this: here

or a Dutch Storm tent: like this 6 person tent we have the smaller version – the Eldorado which is a 4 person sleeping area – but that great for the 2 of us.

In contrast to the advise above that ‘canvas is a liability in the UK’ – having got Canvas tents now, we tend to use them when away camping rather than our nylon tents.

In terms of tents we have:
(Canvas) Vango Force 10 (mk4) – dated late 70s
(Canvas) British Airbourne division tent (1944 pattern canvas)
(Canvas) 4 person Frame tent from the mid 70s – bought for £10 off ebay and get used at festivals like Bloodstock & long weekend motorsport events were we are away 2 nights
(Canvas) Hypercamp Eldorado – used in bad weather as the pyramid design is really stable in stong winds
(Canvas) 5m Bell tent – heavy weight canvas & dutch lacing includes huge wooden pole for the centre
(Canvas) 6 berth frame tent my parents used to take on family camping trips in the 80s and we used at last years British GP – which was its first outing in about 28 years
(nylon) Vango Tornado 300 – mostly used in the depths of winter camping
(nylon) Wynster Curlew 5 – good tent, stands up to bad weather well – liked this tent so much that when the original tent started to show its age after a couple of seasons of heavy use we bought another.
(nylon) Royal Normandy 5 – huge 5 berth tunnel tent we’ve had for about 10 years, very beaten up now, doesnt get many outing now.
(nylon) Vango Sigma 300 – bought as a stop gap

The benefits of canvas are that they are cooler in the hot sun – when at Bloodstock last year when everyone else was getting baked out of their tents we were still quite cool inside. Equally they are warmer at night as the canvas doesnt lose heat as quickly – so we can keep the Eldorado plesently warm using a tilly lamp or 2

They dont rustle like a crisp packet in the wind and quieter in the rain.

To us – if a tent is put away damp at the end of a trip then it needs drying out – doesnt matter if it is canvas or nylon – both will get mildew if they are stored when they are put away damp. So theres pretty much always a tent hanging on the stair bannister drying.

We have found with our use of tents with camping most weekend of the year for Motorsport evets we’ll get a couple of seasons out of a nylon tent, while a canvas tent will fade a bit but will keep going – the canvas poles tend to be more hardwearing – all our nylon tents (except the Tornado with alloy poles) suffer from the fibre glass poles fatiging and snapping – so often have to bodge a repair then replace the broken pole at home later

You can build up in order of “scaryness” at blackpool through their woodies to ease you in.
Zipper Dipper
Roller Coaster
Big Dipper
Grand National
Wild Mouse

Take your first inversion with The Revolution, or free roll on The Avalanche
Take a scenic tour of the park on The Big One
Race a house around on Steeple Chase.

Plus plenty of other rides (theres something like 130 rides at blackpool) including Hiram Maxim’s flying machine, which has stood on the sand at the pleaseure beach for over 100years

MX5 deffinatly ticks many of the boxes.

Mine is an 18 years old MK1, i’ve done just under 100,000 miles in mine since i bought it in 2006 (car is showing 171,000 on the clock) – have gone road tripping around Europe in it with the wife, have gone camping too with her and the 5. boots plenty big enough once you take the space saver tyre out – since it says on the wheel its not to be used on a steering wheel, or on a driving wheel, on a RWD car thats impossible.

Rust to the sills between the rear wheel and the door can be a problem – usually just the outer skin of metal, but its caused by blocked drainage channels from the soft top, so when you see the bubbling, its too late, the panel has rusted from the inside out (and affects pretty much all MX5s at some point) costs around £500 to get sorted properly (asking on MX5 enthuisast sites will get you a local body shop who will do good work, as the cheaper jobs dont last and you end up paying to have it sorted again soon!)

For me, i love the Mk1 but they are getting very old now (cheap tho at around £1-2k) a Mk2.5 which i think is from around 2002, i think, till the Mk3 was introduced is a good model to go for.

Mk3s if you can find one with the Ebach springs factory upgrade fitted, this is the original suspension fitted outside of the EU which brings the stance of the car down an inch or so, bringing the suspension geometry back into factory guidelines.

It was found that to meet EU bonnet height laws raised suspension was fitted, but the suspension geo wasnt changed, so the raised suspension threw out the camber angles and blunted the handling.

well the 9-3 is a completely diferent animal to the 9-5, and suffered far more GM cost cutting and standard parts in the hunt for the fleet sales. the 9-3 got standard GM engines while the 9-5 retained the SAAB developed H Series engines (a follow on of the B series of the pre GM era)

As for Woody – go check out the Aero, less wafting than an SE model as the suspension is firmer & lower – if like mine the lower profile tyres on the 17″ alloys also contribute to the harser ride, but does make it better on the twistys – its not a sports car in anyway, its far too long in the wheelbase & heavy for that. 140k still no probs.

Always best to compare cars rather than buy the first you see.

In terms of remap i think its been suggested that the basic 2.0 lpt is the best bet for power gains as in standard 150bhp its hardly stressed and a simple stage 1 remap of the ECU can see healthy gains in power (50-70bhp improvement), with some on Saabscene and UKsaab saying they actually saw improvements in MPG as they didnt have to work the engine quite to hard, with a better torque spread.

While spending a several grand in replacing the ECU, injectors, air filter, parts of the intake system, Aero spec turbo, larger exhaust can get the 2.0 up to around 300bhp and beyond

where as it takes alot of money to get the power increases on the aero

Going off Abbott Racing (as a bench mark turning guide)
stage 1 upgrade is £400.
2.0t 150bhp > 220bhp
2.3t 185/220 > 230bhp
2.3HOT Aero 230/250 > 265bhp

2.0t Stage 4 – 285bhp (£2200)
2.3t Stage 4 – 285bhp (£2200)
2.3HOT Stage 4 – 300bhp (£3300)
2.3HOT Stage 5 – 320bhp (£4500)

As for torque steer – not something i really notice. i remember feeling it when i first got a saab 9-5 8 years ago but i got used to it. Equally the steering gives great feedback over what the front wheels are doing, this feedback would be removed if they had adjusted the steering to eliminiate the torque steer.

the 2.3t SE is the low output turbo version of the engine – around 170bhp (was upped to 180 a year later)

I have a 2004 auto AERO – ie a 2.3HOT – which puts out around 250ish BHP – i get on average 28 to 29 on the daily commute – getting around 420miles from a tankful. The earlier Autos are less economical to a certain extent as they were 4speed rather than 5speed of the post 2004 cars.

With the 9-5, all petrol engines – make sure the owner has run it on fully synth oil, they dont like semi synth (ie they REALLY dont like semi – it can gunk up and block the oil pick up pipe, causing oil starvation & turbo failure) Best bet is to budget about £70-100 with your local friendly SAAB specalist (T K Autos in Edenfield if you near Manchester is excellent) to drop and clean out the sump, then new oil and filter. Gives a bit of peice of mind.

90k on the clock is nothing to these cars – my previous X reg 9-5 2.0t SE had 185k on the clock when we sold it – seats were still as comfortable as when we sold it and it was still in good condition – we upgraded to the aero.

Might not get heated seats with the SE as it was an option at the time, but i think the uprated stereo was standard (CD/Cassette/Radio)

As said – listen for any rattle from the chain cam on cold start up, the chains are good for double the mileage the car has with decent oil changes. also look for any blue smoke on start up, or clouds of smoke when you let off the accellerator after heavy accelleration (when the engine is warm) which can be signs the turbo is on the way out.

The turbo went on ours old one around 100k miles – but it had suffered from the previous owner had run it on semi synth and hadn’t had the updated Crank Case Breather fitted (somthing that was needed on the 2.0t engine) the 2.3 engines have a different, more robust turbo from Mitubishi, rather than the Garrett turbo of the 2.0 engines.

They are alot of car for the money – and a lovely to drive. Hence why we went for another, have already put 20k miles on the newer one since we bought it last May.

Swallows all our camping gear. Can get two bikes in the boot and loads of leg room in the back seats.

Howdy dodilly doo…would anyone like any toast?

sky 520 i believe

following from an earlier thread: http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/saab/9-5/saab-9-5-se-t-2001/947774

Driving 14-15k a year (mostly country type roads) – not much urban at all – easy miles for one of these. While the SE has softer suspension than an Aero, it’ll even out the rougher roads
Need space for shopping – check
Safe – one of the safest cars in its class, built to pass the moose test, door handles designed to be strong enough they can be used to drag it out of a ditch should you slide into one in the middle of the swedish wilderness 😉 )
Economical – used to average about 35mpg on the daily commute, which equaled around 450-475miles out of a tank, long motorway runs i could get 550-600miles
Not one with a **** HDi engine or DMF – nope, petrol, low pressure turbo, change the oil regulary and you’ll be fine – especially doing lots of miles, they hate short urban drives
Can be diesel or petrol not fussed
Ability to have roof bars and/or a tow bar – estates pre 2005 have roof bars as standard. ours had a tow bar fitted too
5 doors a must – check
Not “clio” small – check

A lot of car for your money – just get the sump dropped by a saab specilist and the oil pick up checked for any deposit build up, and run it on fully synth oil changing every 6000-8000miles and the engine will run and run (chain cam too, never needed changing in the 185,000k miles we had our last one)

the Tape/CD/Radio unit was an upgrade over the basic system, also included a better speaker set up too.

There was an update to the model in around 2002. Sat Nav was added as an option, which included a 6 CD changer in one of the cubby holes in the boot. The sat Nav unit was updated in late 2005 to include a slot for CD to be inserted into the head unit, plus the CD changer in the boot – The SID unit was removed and the heater controls & steering wheel changed to a stock GM part. The post 2005 cars also had the Dame Edna headlight trim and the dash made out of hard plastic, rather than the earlier soft feel the older car had.

Personally i dont like the interiors of the post 2005 cars as much as the 1997 – 2004 cars.

Hora – no worries: pop up to Edenfield and have a look at the 2 Aeros at TK Autos: http://www.tkautosltd.com/cars.php?id=3
Trev and the lads look after my Saabs when i need anything

Love the 9-5. had a 2.0t estate for 7 years, did 90,000 miles in it – great car. Sold it with 185,000 miles on the clock to another Saab enthusiast.

Upgraded to a ’04 9-5 Estate Aero in May last year – picked it up with 130k miles on it – interior is still like new, with the wonderful comfy seats. All the toys, and all for £2k.

There are still plenty of Saab indys around for servicing, parts are not a problem to get hold of.

And i agree with the earlier poster – the interior ergonomics and layout is brilliant – everything is where you need it, in order of priority.

How many other racing drivers (adrenaline junkies that they are…) have off track incidents?

David Purley, who tried to rescue Roger Williamson in the Dutch GP of ’73, went on racing, later survived a head on collision with a wall at Silverstone when his throttle stuck open.
this was what was left of his car:

once his broken legs and pelvis had mended, he returned to racing in the UK F1 series at the end of the 70s. When he retired he moved into competition aerobatics and was killed in an accident in 85 when his plane crashed into the sea.

but I don’t think he delivers it well.

i’ve really enjoyed garys imputs – he can break it down very quickly into simple terms and quite funny seeing sky having all the fancy graphics, but not really getting the explination across when compared to gary with a photo print out and a marker pen.

I stood in amazement at the fact the have closed the hard shoulder for 8? miles.

the hard shoulder of the M62 is shut from J25 (brighouse) to J29 (M1), with average speed cameras & a 50mph limit too. but it chocca with traffic most days and a lot of accidents (seemingly between J26&J27 mostly, there have been 2 major accidents eastbound in the last 7 days and at least one west bound in the same period)

That is a very different version of Roller Derby to that played in the UK and most of the world.

The guardian vid is looking at Banked Track roller derby – which dates back to the 30s. Originally Bank Track derby went the way of American Wrestling: contact, but playing up to the cameras, with ‘professional’ players. It finally disappeared from USA TV in the 90s, before being resurrected as an amateur sport in the early 2000s in Austin. But the early amateur group of girls couldnt afford to build a banked track, so they chalked the outline of the track on the floor and skated on that: Flat Track Roller Derby was born.

Flat track has taken off around the world, the rules are different, its taken much more seriously than seen in that vid (the LoneStar skaters play to rules very similar to early flat track rules – pillow fights, spank alley etc) Modern flat track – penalties are more like ice hockey, get called for a penalty you spend time in the penalty box, so your team skate short. Fighting will get you expelled from the game in Flat Track.

In the UK its gone from no leagues in 2005 to a least 1 league in virtually every major City in the UK
Can see a map of leagues in Europe here: http://euroderby.org/map.php

I’m a ref with the Rainy City Roller Girls, my wife is on one of the teams within the league – the A team is ranked within the top 10 teams in Europe. The oldest league in the UK, London Brawling, is ranked 15th in the World. At the first World Cup, held in Canada last December, Team England finished 3rd, behind Team Canada and Team USA.

If you want to see what Roller Derby is all about, then watch this: http://wftda.tv/archives/2012-east-region-playoffs/bout-10-philly-london/

This is London Brawling competing in the playoffs for a place in the Women’s Flat Track Derby Association Championships, which pits the top 15 teams in the world against each other.

The playoffs happen next weekend, and will be streamed on WFTDA.tv

If you havent heard of Roller Derby before, at the rate it has grown in the UK over the last 4 years, you soon will!

perhaps they were used “in anger” in their original role – nuclear deterrent. just a thought

yep – very glad they, and the other V Bombers never had to go and drop their original cargo.

Going back a few weeks now LH was reportedly saying that not being able to keep the original race win trophies was becoming more important to him as his career moves on and it would be a deal breaker.

He’ll be disappoint going to Merc then: they also keep all the original trophies, and the driver pays for a replica.

When i went they still had jensen’s monaco trophy among other on display in the reception.