ATM here too. I don’t think it’s worth worrying about the <10euro difference it might make if I use up a lunch break queueing at the post office or wherever.

the tyres weigh about 100g more though so the weight saving is negligible

EDIT: too slow! wot he sez ^^

I got an email about it last week, but couldn’t make it. would have been a good laugh!

GG did a roadie overtake you on a GNAR descent once taking a chip off your shoulder as they flew past?

for racing or just riding?

this is cav’s crazy set-up!

realman that ain’t true, it’s personal choice. Cav has his hoods pointing upwards, yates had his pointing to the floor!

move the STI up the bars?

I agree andyl, especially as Santander is european! I went to the city of Santander a couple of years ago and getting charged for cash withdrawals from my Santander account did seem a bit silly.

Thanks guys, quick STW help at it’s finest.

big bruvver here. Anna’s out on a photoshoot in the wilds at the mo so I’m not sure if she can reply for a few days but I’ve text her to tell her to try and find an internet cafe. I know she’ll be very grateful for the responses.

that are 30kms long.

and surfaced with gravelly mud.

ie, they are at best fire roads and so MTB gears make sense.

4 weeks in a sling, another few weeks till gentle riding and up to 6 months till anything gnarrr!

Do ALL your physio exercises and keep doing them. A dislocated shoulder is not like a broken bone, you will have a permanent weakness so ongoing physio is crucial to keeping the stability of the joint.

Took my veggie girlfriend to Mildred’s on Friday and we both really enjoyed it.

yeah, we weren’t sure we were going until end of last week!

Cheers for advice, will that out.

cheers 12, thought it might be too good to be true. Got any recommendations?

XC race bikes with flat pedals?

geoff waugh the cycling photog is worth a follow @thewarhead

nothing for me this weekend, girlfriend’s birthday.

Next week will be busy though!

Crikey, they will start a race on smooth roads with 140psi, over 7 hours the pressure of high end tubs will drop at least 20 psi. You can test this yourself if you don’t believe me.

So now the whole lot is flexing? ( goalposts on wheels…)

I’ve always said that the whole thing flexes. For that system to flex, both elements have to flex. I’ve been arguing that carbon can flex significantly more in one direction than another. For the purposes of that argument whether I’m talking about singlestays, whole rear ends or sus frames is irrelevant and you know that. In jabbering about moving goal-posts you are doing just that.

By how much?

read my earlier posts, cannondale claim a few mm on their flash but I can’t analyse that. I’m sure some german mags have or will test it.

As for the difference between a carbon seatpost and a metal one; sure, easy to believe and observe, but we aren’t talking about that are we?

you claimed buttocks can’t detect a small amount of movement, I’ve come up with an analogy that shows that they can. seat post flex must also be of the order of a few mm at most.

.and explain how in such a system, the chainstay is able to compress along its upper length and extend along its lower length, which it would have to do if there was flex in a vertical direction in the seatstays

there is vertical flex in the whole system, not just the chainstay. standard beam theory innit, seeing as people love wikipedia on here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euler-Bernoulli_beam_equation

…and explain how this magical property is detected by the rider using that most perceptive of parts, the buttocks, already isolated by a seat, a seatpost, and the rest of the frame

do an allday ride on a hardtail with a thomson seatpost and then repeat with a use alien carbon, you might be surprised at how sensitive buttocks are.

5 psi less in the rear tyre would appear to give far more suspension effect….

not with a 140psi 22c tub as used by pros

Go on then – I’ll allow the use of generic material properties off wikipedia.

hahahahaha! I’m not sure that you understand. The whole point of modifying composite layups is that the member properties aren’t generic and homogeneous. Carbon members can be constructed so that E varies according to direction and can be specified quite precisely by the designer ie less stiff vertically in the case of SAVE. Manufacturers use this ability to do away with chainstay pivots on short travel XC frames.
I could create a rear stay arrangement analysis model using flattened oval sections of any material which would show that a rear end can indeed flex vertically more than it does horizontally. HOwever, as it wouldn’t be exactly the same as an existing bike you wouldn’t believe me I fear.

and as I’m on a silly mission…

…and why doesn’t the paint crack?

it does, which is why early versions of the short travel XC frames mentioned above were un-painted and un-laquered.

aracer, you’re on to a loser here.

Cannondale Flash, Synapse, super X and others use the SAVE micro suspension system:

flash

There are plenty of tests and reviews out there confirming that the system works.

We’re clearly back to bicycles breaking known laws of physics here. The stays might flex in isolation – built up into a rear triangle it just doesn’t happen. Do the numbers.

wrong again, triangulation doesn’t totally eliminate flex. I could do the numbers given the correct material properties, it’s part of my day job 🙂

Not to a degree which would would make any real difference they can’t. In any case to get that wonderful “comfy” ti feel you need lots of lateral flex due to the complete lack of vertical.

wrong I’m afraid

Some of Cannondale’s designs provide a few mm of vertical flex whilst staying laterally pretty rigid and they aren’t the only ones.

I wondered what that echo was Al! 🙂

’tis true that pros are often stuck in their ways or have other concerns over pure speed but I still don’t believe a Ti frame would ever better for their all-round needs.

Bigman, I’m not saying that if I rode a Venge I’d be keeping up with Cav, just that even tiny speed benefits can mean the difference between 1st and 2nd. Hence if everything else was equal (skinsuits etc) the rider with a Venge would be slightly faster than a guy on a litespeed.

*bangs head on desk*

Read my previous posts:

OP specifically asked about pro riders.

To win a race you can’t be protected by the bunch all the time, otherwise the guys taking the wind in front as you cross the line will have won…
Racers sometimes take a turn on the front, attack, sprint on the front row, drop back for bottles or to help a team leader and chase back on. Sometimes the bunch splits or echelons form. A bunch isn’t infinitely wide so a good proportion will be riding on the outside edge etc.

Regarding comfort and fatigue, composite materials can be laid up in such a way to provide vertical flex in a way Ti can’t.

Obviously if Ti frame are better (this is STW after all) I suggest you tell the top teams and manufacturers that all their 100s of 1000s of pounds spent on R&D are wasted and they really want an IF or a 456 ti or someother crap.

cycnic-al, open your eyes man.

There are plenty of scientific tests showing the frames such as the Venge, Felt WR, cervelo S1 etc are significantly more aerodynamic than a roundtubed frame. They are often stiffer (German mags test this scientifically) and lighter (easy to find weights if you look…).

Lighter, stiffer, more aero = better no?

Ti bikes haven’t been used in the tour for years, composite technology has moved on a long way since then.

Also, for those worried about carbon’s supposed fragility, youtube Paris-Roubaix, 95% of riders are on carbon frames and they wouldn’t be if they were fragile. Your team car can be too far back in that race to be relied on.

me me me me me me.

The OP asked about pros, not nodders. That makes you wrong

I don’t think it does Al, but to win a race you have to be in the wind at some point. Even if it’s only for the last 150m, bunch sprints have been won by mm, every little helps!

perhaps Tesco should sponsor a team…

Cynical, this is a bit of “proof” that aerodynamic frames do make a difference on a road stage:

Specialized have conducted track testing with the Venge against their current top-line race bike, the Tarmac SL3. Claimed watts saved by the Venge range from 3W at 20km/h to a whopping 23W at 45km/h, and presumably a lot more than this at Mark Cavendish’s sprint speed of around 70km/h. Giving a professional rider that sort of advantage is incredible and should be apparent from very early on in the season.

taken from here [/url]

I’d wager that getting Ti into that shape would be nigh on impossible or weigh a ton.

not taken by me:

I miss my RC41s massively; very plush, beautifully damped, light and stiff. Loads better than their Rev replacements.

Unfortunately my 2005 model suffered from the upper leg separating from the crown. I think 2006 onwards addressed this issue.

wher eis the HORA?

Chongqing

ac282, that is ridiculous! it means you never get a rest as the slow line still has the wind

budget? chainrings aren’t cheap so I would recommend a cross specific chainset from FSA, raceface or campag if you can afford it.

Or go singlering

your front mech will be fine, any 10speed road chainset will be fine. I run record 10 on one CX bike, veloce on the other with FSA chainsets and normal (ie not compact) front mechs and it’s all gravy.

I’m normally one of the shouty people in a race and could write loads on this subject. Simplest way to ensure smooth group riding is to get the newbies down to a velodrome.

innit CGG!

OP, if it’s for commuting, the frame won’t make any difference to your journey times and I’m sure both will withstand potholes but equally fail if they get run over by a double decker.

but chiefgrooveguru, if the walls get very thin local buckling becomes an issue with frame strength, not to mention impact resistance.

Just go surfing! Unless you’re there this week 🙁

Those roads always look narrow and dodgy to me. Exmoor is meant to have lots of good MTBing