Thm, next you’ll be asking “why do people with no children or children in fee paying schools pay for the education of other (financially comfortable) people’s kids?”
Although I think that one has been done a couple of times in here and it wasn’t pretty iirc.

Can’t believe you don’t follow Corbyn on Facebook, 5th. :P (For that is where it’s lifted from).

Breakdown of votes would suggest that the fewer of ‘cuckoos’ like him than last time, but he is now even more popular amongst real party members. I am genuinely suprised about this.

A microcosm of this would be my local Labour Party: most but not quite all of our labour councillors backed Smith yet locally the support for Corbyn amongst the regular members and trade unions is very high: no local breakdown yet but I expect our local vote if it is measurable will be well over 61.8%

possibly a bit spendy (particularly if it doesn’t work!) but try a set of 5 point torx bits: the largest one might be about right but not sure if the ‘profile’ is same.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Trident-T111600-5-Point-Tamperproof-Security-Torx-9pc-Socket-Set-1-4-Drive-/221869406649?hash=item33a87279b9:g:uOwAAOxy3NBSfidr

Re: recovery; I am professionally acquainted with and mates with a total of four registered health/social care professionals who are former herion users. 2 from poor socially deprived backgrounds and 2 a bit more lower/middle/ptofessional class backgrounds. That’s the ones that I know of anyway, and plenty of colleagues know these folk and don’t know their past.
Would be interesting to know for the purposes of stats whether this is representative of the possibility of recovery as a whole.

As above plenty of cost and complication to society with heroin in particular is a consequence of it being illegal and underground. And of course ‘legal highs’ exist because the original illegal ones are illegal: you wouldn’t bother making and selling them if it was easier to make and sell real cannabus and mdma, because they are more predictable and (apparently) more fun. Legislation needs to look at what has evolved because of legislation and take a pragmatic stance. Also consider tax revenue if you could go to the chemist and buy properly regulated and taxed recreational drugs!

blimey, that’s tough news ninfan.

A kid in my clinic a while back told her mum that guilt and blaming oneself were “useless and fruitless emotions” and she should try and feel something more productive for her and for the family. (yes it was perilously close to dusty in there) -hopefully she wouldn’t mind that advice being extended to a stranger. Better than anything I could add anyhow.

But since this is STW I might also add that in 18 years working in MH services that’s the first instance of use of S7 I have ever heard about. Which makes it terribly/delightfully niche: its like the bamboo belt drive recumbent of sections. So if she ever sees the bright side of all of this, give her a 8) from me.

May has not moved him on because he is not yet toxic enough, so plenty more lies and upset before she replaces him with someone who presents as more humble and a (relatively!!) palatable alternative in time for shiny new manifesto promises. At least if it was my job to advise (and I could still sleep at night) then that’s what I would recommend.

Also the Westminster heirarchy gave way to the establishment one: look who he is related to. Hunt is simply the best connected minister in the ‘real’ world outside the parliamentary/elected Conservative party, and it simply will not do to be just moving him on like that. My bet is that May tried to replace him, and then someone’s mum rang someone’s uncle who had a quiet word in a private members club with someone’s aide and then suddenly May saw the error of her ways.

Incorrect (too wide) sized dropper seatpost. :evil:

Largely I am a bit of a failure to my dad’s terribly middle class English family (but not to my very normal blue collar French side)
However I managed to do my PGDip at Exeter University and my young patients often describe me as “Jack Whitehall” (which at 39 and balding fast I am trying to see the bright side of).

teamhurtmore – Member
Aren’t they privatising the NHS or have they done that already?

We all play the game don’t we?

c.f. ‘theft’ and ‘ponzi’ ;)

I was recently bitten on my way to the bus stop by the dog of a terribly polite and apologetic lady out running with pooch. At least there is some balance in the world!

local trails are a a joyful swoopy dust-fest 2 miles away from newnham park.
Gutted not to be doing it this year as clashes with my daughter’s birthday, I have done every one (at newnham that is, not the very first one) either in 24hr teams or as torchbearer 4 times (my best race result ever was when I came third in torchbearer on the ridiculously flooded red weather warning year as pictured earlier in tis thread 8) ), which btw since the demise of the 6pm-6am version of the erlestoke 12 is now also the bestest 12 hour solo race ever, much quieter on the course, because well over half the riders stop after the first 12 hours, and small hours/dawn laps rule!

Get here tomorrow afternoon and make a super long camping weekend of it.
And get thee to the Miner’s Arms nearby, its proper good there. Jail Ale FTW.

Geddon u janner!

A386 is the quickest way for sure, I’ve done it a couple of times (mum lives along there) but not at rush hour and its true you get squeezed a bit by the co-op/pounds house as a cyclist. Someone even got killed there (by a hit and run) at 2am recently!

St Budeaux or weston mill is a long diversion though. Through Swilly (signposted as North Prospect -go up there and then right onto Ha Drive and left onto Honicknowle lane) is a bit shorter but has a rather impessive hill in it at one point -not too bad a route if your destination is nearer transit way tesco end of crownhill road rather than crownhill village itself.

Otherwise, may I suggest as a slightly stoppy-starty (lots of back streets and t-junctions) but only a little bit longer route the following:

Ferry Road, Across Devonport park to Milne road/Portland place, across devonport road to garflied terrace, the Elms, Wingfield Road, De La Haye Avenue, Across bottom of Central Park to corner of Barn Park and Trelawney Road, up Barn Park rd to cross mini roundabout to Broad park road, left onto weston park road, right onto burleigh lane, Tor Lane to Tor Road to come out near the EDF building and the manadon roundabout/flyover, to drop down to the south-east ‘corner’ of the roundabout and take the cycle paths underneath it (I haven’t ridden the footbridge bridge suspended underneath the A386 for ages but everyone used to ignore the cyclists dismount sign) and then come up the left side of tavistock road but on the residential road that runs separate and high up on the left: last 200m is shared pavement alongside the main A386/tavistock road -in traffic the last bit of the main road after the flyover up to crownhill is pretty horrible. You can get to Crownhill village and the north east side by taking the underpass at Bladder Lane park or quiet cycle route up the left side gets you to police station/crownhill fort side.

I’ve never ridden all that as a one-er otherwise I’d send you the strava trail of it, now I have typed it all out it sounds well complicated!!

[edit] Oh BTW to be a tru janner u callz it Plymuff, or just ‘the muff’, innum.

*pinches self* a post from jambalaya about politics I totally agree with! He’s been hacked! ;)

Yawn: because the conservatives only got 150k votes and 4 seats last time too. if both of you are banking on the surge in party membership not being reflected by far more no -member people who have voted green/plaid because labour was the opposite cheek if the same Tory arse, or never actually voted at all and coming out to vote for Corbyn, just come out and say it. Wierd little sect it is not though, larger than the entire Conservative party membership it is. Binners you are capable of better than that.

Latest polls say the “Wierd little sect” currently numbers about 165000 people. Thats a lot of far left crazed trots who have just spontaneously sprung into existence Binners.

so sorry to hear that OP.
Re ‘death of despair’ -changes in supply chain in herion is also a major factor in deaths or near misses in my professional experience: your supply is certainly cut/watered down to some degree, and you get used to your own tolerance of your regular supply (which is round about x% actual heroin: then one day the supply changes and ironically better ‘value for money’ (x=20% heroin) means your usual dose becomes a dangerous or even fatal one.

Of course wealthy people become addicts too but my experience is the huge link between childhood poverty/social problems and abuse: As a government not expecting to be in power in half a generation’s time, it must be really hard to justify spending investing money on social issues today knowing that the cost savings to the taxpayer will not be borne out until the other team are in charge.

Daffy – Member

Depends upon the spoke/rim combination IME.

Stiff spokes on stiff, round rims – an hour per wheel.

Revs on Crests – 2 hours.

definitely this. Hardest rebuild I ever did was a 32h open pro on rear hub with db spokes (not revs, dt comps irc)and it was going under the bottom of an 18st powerhouse so pressure to get it as right as i possibly could.
On the other hand downhill wheels just seem to build themselves, so much easier to get a straight wheel with high and even spoke tension and afaik my sub 1 hour dh builds have had a right hammering and are still fine.

Also its another debate I know but OP if you are building your own, start with brass nipples!! I would never build a wheel for myself with alloy ones, for mw its just not worth the weight saving. I’ve repaired a few not-that-old wheels that have failed becasuse the alloy nipple not the spoke broke -only to find that half the other nipples disintegrate when you put a spoke key to them.

interesting question. Are you a burden on the health service or the justice system if trough our actions or lack of actions you don’t need them? ie staying out of trouble and staying healthy saves uk plc an enormous amount of money.

In purely fiscal terms my road is swept/maintained, bins collected and streets largely free of crime but also I have 2 children in school so I am sure I am a net ‘gainer’ by quite some £££.

airtragic – Member

Earn more than that but I’m a public servant, so all debit from me I’m afraid!

Not necessarily: as above, what is harder to measure is the contribution to the economy that you make through your work rather than the taxes you pay. Whether you are a public servant or someone that builds infrastructure or brings other (tax-paying!) business in -the stuff you do or make also attracts tax in the form of VAT or business rates so you don’t pay it but you create the conditions where someone else does. Conversely if you are a criminal you may pay lots of tax but the cnsequences of your criminal acts may cost many many times more in terms of the victims of your crimes as well as the cost of justice to you personally.

I also work for the state in a service that keeps people out of hospital and makes probably-huge-but-very-hard-to-measure improvments on what my patients and their families will ‘cost’ society in later years. There is some quite extraordinary figures bandied about how the successful treatment of Conduct Disorder, Oppositional Defiance Disorder and ADHD will save the country many many times more in later years (in sick pay, benefits, criminal justice, healthcare etc etc) than is spent today on addressing it in children. I forget the exct ‘return on investment’ numbers but they are massive, but it’s also a tough calculation to make and evidence though. What is easier to measure is the cost savings to health system made by my special little niche (Anorexia) and it is quite possible that over the course of my career i will just about be worth my actual weight in gold even if the money inveted in my salary and tax i pay will be nothing like that much.

In case you missed it, 52% of the population have given the government a mandate to negotiate our exit of the EU

As on of the 48% of the people who voted, and voted to stay in, that is either very subtle humour (in which case chapeau) or a sloppy statistic thm. Still 5 minutes or so to edit it or add a winky. :P

[edit] ah I see GrahamS beat me to it. I have faith in you though thm, I am sure it was a wink to the overall decisively high standard of statistics in the leave campaign.

:lol: at the above posts but there is one correct one hiding in there, it is indeed known as the hull.

thanks glo-balti

My favourite post this week!
Also globalti’s post very interesting too. Was trying to explain something less well informed and articulated than this to my kids the other day.
Slightly on and off topic, 12 years ago Mrs and I had a very ‘U.K.’ curry (they bought their ingredients from a wholesaler in Kent) just across the road from the European Parliament in Brussels- is it still there?

From different schools of teh drumz:
Jojo Mayer
Kliph Scurlock
Sarah Jones

Also Dana Carvey (yes it’s really him doing Garth’s drum solo) and a well-programmed sample/sequencer. ;)

they might have some alternative policies to challenge the government with rather than vague JC “reality” based slogans

as you keep reminding us.

do you think these vague reality based slogans on the opposite benches have helped or hindered the government? 4-13 months into a 60 month period of government, are policies or parliamentary defeats more important for an effective opposition? And is there a way of measuring this? Again, Corbyn Central seem to have almost all the numbers on their side so far. Surely there must be a way of measuring how bad it really is?

as we can see 66/33 wasn’t enough they needed to do better.

I am more disappointed that the prime minister, the chancellor, helath secretary and the home secretary didn’t do better for their own voters. Newsflash: Europe is not an entirely left-right issue, many labour voters voted remain to curb the excesses of the right wing not because it is a labour thing to do. (I do not include myself in this as I don’t vote labour and I agreed with the experts).

Actually 49.59% of party members voted for him when he won the leadership.

So according to the YouGov poll Corbyn’s support among Labour Party members hasn’t fallen recently, which I have to be honest surprises me a little.

One thing above all else that the leadership election last year taught us is just how out of touch Labour MPs are with their own party (never mind their own voters).

So far there is scant evidence that has changed very much.

How dare you come in here spoiling all the fun with actual evidence and staistics Ernie.

The problem for all of us is that we have some numerical evidence to support that Corbyn is more popular than either the press or the STW echo-chamber would have us think. But we have little way of knowing if the upsurge in party membership is 1) representative of general growing national support for labour, or 2) representative of people joining to get hm out or keep him in.

Also genuine naive political question -is there an accepted way of ‘measuring’ the effectiveness of an opposition party?

…As Corbyn Central posts on facebook listing a large and rather amusing list of conservative u-turns and climbdowns that have taken ace since August, and we have a rather precarious and awful leadership race in the conservative party, yet all I hear from STW and the papers is how ineffective an opposition labour has been. What would be different today had we had Blair or Smith as leader of the opposition?

I was talking about the electors of the MP’s in the general public who gave those MP’s the mandate to represent them.

So you are assuming that the Labour Party members as they were last summer, and th trade unions who supported Corbyn are the “arrivistes”? Because that is who got him in. It doesn’t matter whether you are looking at that from the point of view of the PLP or the ordinary voters, the evidence points to theae people always having been close to the Labour Party as opposed to being over-run by militant socialists.

And then remember the far out crazy policies Corbyn was talking about at the time? Renationalisation of the railways, reversal of changes to the nhs, that sort of thing? How quickly we forget that statistically his policies at the time were remarkably popular across all voters (including conservatives in the case of railways iirc) trident was the only really contentious one in there.
Recent council and by elections, and polls/ surveys even very recently simply do not support your idea that Labour voters in their droves are turning away from labour asking “wtf happened to my party and its policies” and Corbyn’s difficulties lie not in the popular vote but in the media, people who won’t vote labour whatever happens, and the PLP. Oh and Binners now. whoever is in charge of labour, the challenge is as much about getting the young and disenfranchised non voters on board and managing the gerrymandering[\s] boundary changes ahead of us.

One wonders what the Labour supporters in the country, who voted to put those Members of Parliament in place, feel about having a minority of arrivistes over-ruling their choice of representation.

As I mentioned in the post immediately above yours Woppit, Corbyn would have easily won the leadership contest in the first round even without these arrivistes you speak of. It is unclear whether the support in the party membership reported in recent days includes people who since joined up, I wonder if it is possible to break figures down by “how long have you been a labour party member” but what we do know is that the breakdown of votes when he was voted in last summer was clear that he didn’t need arrivistes or £3 members to get in, and that the PLP had massively misunderstood the wider membership.
Is it possible that they continue to?

[edit] Also why not join the party if you feel so strongly about its leadership being ‘wrongly’ decided by its actual members? I voted green at the GE and am a paid up green party member. I want to demonstrate support to them and give them money (durng the blair years I also signed the bit in my union paperwork that takes my subs out of labour’s and into the general poilitical fund) Incidentally green party membership also precludes me from being a £3 voter so don’t worry about me perverting the course of the labour party with my far lung lefty madness. ;)

I have got appointments coming up with two socially phobic eastern europeans who live in a city with relatively low BME population, and that voted 62% out. I am anticipating that the part of my job getting them out of the house and into society may get a little bit tougher. :(
polish shopkeepers face stark rise in racial abuse after eu referendum

, you can join for £3 and be elligable to vote immediately that’s total madness.

errr, jambalaya didn’t you say back along that you did exactly that?

not sure they even need the £3 votes this time around, it certainly would have been a similar landslide for him last time even without the £3 affiliat members. All the polls including the recent Ashcroft one show little sign of this changing.
Complicated perhaps by the extraordinary upsurge in membership again in the last week, except that we have somewhat less statistically rigorous reports that that 2/3 of those 13000 or so are joining for Corbyn. If this is the case, I am highly amused that it looks like a leadership crisis should bring so many more members into a party. I wonder if the same is happening for the blue team? :lol:

£1.6m pension? Impressive tabloid-style calculations particularly for a member of Hacked Off.
You are good with money aren’t you? Would you care to apply the same calculation method to any other veteran MP with an ‘interesting’ couple of years included in that service?
Or even compare that to just the ‘golden handshake’ Cameron is due irrespective of his pension? Or that IDS is due since he stopped being work and pensions secretary?

13000 people have joined the Labour Party in recent days. How terribly confusing.

You could have stopped at 52% of the lawn. That’s still decisively cut, right? ;)

dannybgoode – Member
Considering whether to go for the leadership role apparently…

Definitely evidence of chemically induced confidence involved there then! :lol:

Still mid way through a massive pile of marching powder snorted through a roll of overpriced luxury wallpaper. Comedown starts tomorrow morning, brief and highly secret admission to private clinic with heart arrythmias, paranoia and blurred vision.
He’ll be ok though, he’s rich.

[stw pedantry edit] woud be funnier if the poster either had him on a bicycle, or used the word peddling though.

So will we be deciding labour leadership the same way again?
I am mindful that the phenomenal majority Corbyn got last time was reflected in the breakdown of the ‘real’ member votes just as much as the affilate £3 ones. And that the party membership continued to rise after he became leader. And of the rather comprehensive and amusing set of conservative u-turns and climbdowns that happened in spite of the right (including my own super rw/conservative christian MP who wrote about this last summer) warning us that we needed an effective (ie labour-right) opposition to be able to stop the conservatives turning into a runaway train of ‘off-manifesto’ rigt wing madness. Yet somehow the old lefty and his old lefty mate were part of all sorts of climbdowns and a remarkable rise in political interest amongst the poor and the young.

What happens of all this terrible infighting and dysfunction just produces the result that the party membership actually still wants corbyn?

*dusts off birth certificates, emails french consulate*
Is it too late to register/apply for my 10 and 12 year olds?

-50 ways to leave your lover.

-For extra Merkel Berlin-o-phile points, “Stay (faraway, so close)”

-One Love (Marley not U2!)

-If you leave me now.

-And of course Tim Farron doing the John Barnes rap.

Bosch’s mid drive Performance Line CX motor powers the entire ensemble for both bikes, which are only available in Switzerland an in the EU.

How has this bombshell not made it into the referendum enormo-thread? Anyone sitting on the fence should shirley be tipped one way or the other with love/hate. :D

Whenever I read one of Chewkw posts I keep picturing like this.

You read his posts? Your dedication to moderating/moderation is commendable.