And what if everybody says ‘no’ to their taxes being spent in any particular area? Say the police?

Sure, ID cards are a waste of time and money. But I’m not quite sure how that’s related to telling your holiday details to the government – if you go abroad now you have to show your passport…

ID cards are not related to having to give the government details of your holiday. That was meant as another example of oppressive, restrictive legislation being introduced by the current government.

It was discussed here:

Travel plans thread

and is another very good reason to get rid of this government.

Sorry, previous posts overtook mine.

Yes, the Conservative Party ARE a decent opposition: even if you only look at scrapping ID cards. Fancy paying £300 – £500 pounds for your ID card? then vote Labour. Fancy having to give all the details of your holiday to the government? Then vote Labour.

Third world country?

North Staffs Hospital and Gosport War Memorial Hospital for two examples…

Knife crime and muggings for two more?

Ever been abroad and felt safer than you do in this country? I feel safer EVERY time I go abroad (except where I live now is lovely)

Given the previous posts about Dan Hannan, MEP, I thought that some other people might have been along: Stoner and CFH, and of course RudeBoy…

mboy – agree with your post.

Sad that people are too apathetic to vote.

Agree that 100% (or 120%!) turnout would be highly suspect, and that a less than 50% turnout would be less than a mandate, but it I think it would be better for this country if most of us cast our vote.

The question of what we would do if 75% of voters said ‘none of the above’ is open to question: it would be nice (but rather innocent) to think it wouldn’t happen.

RudeBoy speaks sense, once again.

No surprises there.

Yes, I believe I do understand anarchism as a concept, but I also believe that it requires a level of personal responsibility that doesn’t exist in this country (or others: discuss, please).

I also think it couldn’t work in a world where we need to pay taxes and work with other countries: wouldn’t it lead to any country adopting it being marginalised and joining the third world (as if we aren’t a third world country already!)

What is Libertarian socialism?

If you can’t do the time, don’t commit the crime…

We have a decent opposition. The Conservative Party. See scrapping of ID cards, etc.

Who TF cares about cost / benefit? We’re talking about the potential (probable) loss of basic, essential liberties here. Or at least, I was.

I wish I hadn’t started this thread (I knew that would happen!) as it has just highlighted the apathy (if not the ignorance) of the people in this country.

Sorry, this started as an attempt at a discussion but that doesn’t seem possible in this country.

Thanks to those of you who have entered into discussion.

More beer required, bye.

Oh, I give up!

If you can’t see why you should vote you should probably be debarred from so doing. You know who you are.

I wonder why I bother and just want to live somewhere where other intelligent people live.

guido and redthunder: nice bit of devil’s advocacy there then!

You are obviously not the people that this thread was aimed at then (and there is no-one on here that it WAS aimed at), but I think that if more people got involved with the process (and in some countries people do want to be involved with the way their country is run) we might just have a country that is better to live in.

Thank you also junkyard and vinnyeh for some very relevant comments.

I am not TandemJeremy, by the way. I actually seem to find myself disagreeing with quite a lot of what he says (but would defend, if not to the death, his right to say it!)

guido – Member
Sorry i didnt explain myself. i dont see the point in voting due to the fact that anything our MP’s want to do can be overturned by some unelected (tory)lords.
So why should i bother leaving my house to spoil a bit of paper? just dont go.

I’m pretty sure that it’s not just Tory Lords that overturn stuff: last time I heard the majority in the House of Lords was Lib Dem…

You should consider bothering to leave your house (your nearest polling station should be pretty close) as, if you don’t, whichever is the current administration will win (and this one will impose ID cards and the travel database (previously mentioned on here somewhere) amd quite a lot of other stuff which will (further) severely restrict our liberties.

GW – Member
Why stop at that Julian? tell us who to vote for too.

Where in my post did I suggest that? See the ‘none of the above’ get-out clause.

guido – Member
No way- as not voting is the only way you can express your distaste for the current system.
If we all didnt vote then perhaps they may change it.

Actually, I suggest that spoiling your paper might be effective as well. (But see the ‘none of the above’ get-out clause.)

If we all didn’t vote then whichever administration is currently in power then surely they will stay there.

redthunder – Member
and the flowers and birds

Not sure how they could vote anyway: they might have to be excused (and what about animals: are you being flowerist and birdist here)

Its our democratic right not to vote

True, but if you want to live in a democracy, don’t you feel a duty to participlate? Obviously not… That’s a shame.

trailmonkey – Member
How are you going to ensure that everyone is on the electoral register ?

Not sure, but we get a letter asking us to confirm our details quite regularly, and I think there may be legal consequences for failing to register / provide accurate details

What would be the punishment for not voting ?

A fine? Why wouldn’t you want to vote? I suggested a ‘none of the above’ option so that people can express their discontent with all parties (and a 75% ‘none of the above’ vote would express that pretty clearly, I suggest)

If people don’t want to vote, and will just tick any box, is forcing them likely to give a distorted result ?

See above…

What’s wrong with wearing a bow tie? Obviously hand tied, not one of those fake things…

Helmet yes, compulsion no?

Denim cutoff (with Heavy Metal band patches) over leather jacket.

IGMC (it’s the one with the patches, thanks)

We prefer Kew, but it’s a long time since we went to the Eden Project. Didn’t seem to be many labels on the plants to say what they were then, but that might have changed.

Second Heligan and suggest Trelissick and Cotehele if you like National Trust properties.

I believe that the Magrathea sequences in the original Hitchhiker’s Guide were filmed where the Eden Project is now.

SpamBayes is very good if you are using Outlook or (I think) Outlook Express.

That really stinks, IWH!

The so-called ‘justice’ system in this country is a joke. And it’s not just your story that makes me say that: a mate of mine is being very badly treated by the system we laughingly call ‘justice’.

It strikes me as strange that you can be threatened and nearly robbed and the pigs won’t do anything about it, but a kid putting up posters about his missing cat is threatened with an ASBO and another kid chalking hopscotch squares in a cul-de-sac is scared by overbearing pigs.

Welcome to Britain.

Surely if you were threatened (which you obviously were) it counts as assault or something?

Glad you’re OK.

Ain’t Britain lovely.

Look me up if you’re going to Lasham CFH! Not far from here. There’s always the Museum of Army Flying at Middle Wallop as well…

Nice pics, thanks!

Give me a couple of minutes…

You missed a nought after the five from your offer (and I don’t mean after the decimal point!)

Seem as though there are some keen naturalists on here! Nice!

Should we start a ‘Show us your nature pics’ thread? Perhaps make it ‘British only’ to celebrate our flora and fauna?

Yes indeed, aracer! That thought crossed my mind too… They do have couple of WWII era aircraft but nothing of great interest to me, so I didn’t photograph them.

Thanks problem_child.

Taken on a 2MP phone camera too!

‘Tis indeed a shame to see thise lovely old aircraft rotting away.

They are all at the Second World War Aircraft Preservation Society at Lasham in Hampshire if anyone else wants to visit…

Anyone ID this for me please?

Sorry, was meant to be:

Good for her. Suspect it won’t happen though…

Oh yes there are nettles already! Maybe not very big ones, but I managed to get stung taking the Wood Anemone photo! Vicious little bugger, too: all fresh and full of venom (the nettle, not the Wood Anemone, obviously…)

I love this time of year!

Found these yesterday…

Looking rather sad – they should be indoors and being restored…

I’m going out with my camera again tomorrow on a garlic hunt then! (And maybe a bag to collect some leaves for a salad!)

Orchid season starts next month too… Plenty of those in Monmouthshire (my folks live in the Forest Of Dean – just by the cycle path leading to PedalABikeAway!)

Nice one!

And the Wood Anemones, Celandines and Primroses are out as well. Spring is here! Hopefully wild garlic pretty soon then…

Try the Wrox website…

They don’t seem to have got all the registration plates, though: that Boxter’s plate is fairly legible… and faces don’t seem to have been completely obscured either.

Great stuff though: loving it so far!

Cheers, ebygomm. Spot on. There go a few more hours!

Just been to Paris, Amsterdam and Rotterdam. Sadly no Athens yet.

Anyone found a list of countries and cities covered?