There is a reasonable debate to be had about the degree to which the young – who have been shat upon repeatedly from a great height by the elderly in recent years – should be expected to sacrifice their futures to help out the same people who have been shitting on them so vindictively and deliberately.

This is pretty dam true. im not old, but not young either (mid 30s) even i feel their pain. But the Tories are never gonna single out their pale, frail and stale voters. Its ok for the older people to destroy my future and my hyperthetical children’s with Brexit but im supposed to protect theirs.

It would need international cooperation to prevent a race to the bottom, but it can be done. When the alternative is allowing a catastrophic collapse of the economy the question we should be asking is why aren’t they doubling down instead of talking about ‘repaying the debt’.

So it’s gone from something simple and easy to requiring international cooperation??? This is sounding a lot like Boris and his moonshot. Im not saying I disagree with you, but you seem to be massively over simplifying it. Im all for state run utilities like power, trains and so on some stuff just shouldn’t be in private control but its not as easy as you seem to make out.

You need to think beyond the traditional orthodoxy about how money and national finances work. The govt could underwrite the entire economy indefinitely if it *wanted* to, but it doesn’t. The answer to why is who would lose out if they went down such a path.

You claimed it was something that could be done “easily” but even thinking beyond the traditional orthodoxy of finance doesn’t make it easy to do. You make it sounds like Boris wakes up tomorrow and goes right we pay for everything you can all stay at home. You’re suggesting we fundamentally change how the uk and the world to an extent operates. Simple needs such as how would the gov’ supply the whole country with gas and electric so we can cook our lockdown potatoes and porridge. Its like saying its easy just to change the voting system to PR its far from “easy.”

Actually it is realistic, if we wanted to. The govt could quite easily support the economy for an indefinite period whilst we find a solution which minimises the number of deaths from the virus. The only thing stopping it is the political will and the willingness of the public to accept it.

Sorry to be flippant but if its as realistic and easy as you claim why not set out a plan and pop it in the mail for Boris he seems to be lacking ideas currently? Fact is its not, social services can’t even support the amount of people its required to support now. Expecting the gov’ to support the whole country for the next 6+ months while we sit at home and watch netflix isn’t realistic… not without mass unemployment and a horrific recession that we just can’t recover from.

I’ve tried to pretty much stick to the rules. Had a couple of socially distanced meet ups with 4 mates,….

I can honestly say that I have not broken a single rule, other than not having a mask in one shop. I saw my Stepfather only when it was legal to do so…

<span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”>Sorry, didn’t want to quote your whole responses. I think sticking to the rules is key here, but some people (not saying either of you) feel the need express their own rules which for example means my weekend (had 4 friends over for a bbq) is unacceptable while still totally inline with the rules. The idea of oh we need a stricter lockdown with the army on the street and 3 months in jail is total madness and people taking this holier than thou line drives me mad. We can’t hide away for ever financially its not realistic. When we were allowed out more I visited my local coffee shop i was talking to the people there saying i feel conflicted about coming and putting them at risk, they basically said to me if people don’t come we close its that simple. If the plan is stay at home then the gov’ </span>basically<span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”> need to pay everyones wages, bills and foods for the next year or two, but thats not gonna happen.</span>

<span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”>We need to live with this thing and do what we can to limit risk. Am I going out hugging and kissing all my friends no, but I am going to the coffee shop maybe 5/7days a week and going out for lunch and dinner with my partner and friends. </span>

Pretty much, yep

pretty much isnt good enough im sorry. Go straight to jail do no pass go do not collect your £200.  Im assuming you will be signing up for the covid marshall job even if its unpaid… but that does mean leaving your house such a conundrum. On a more serious note are you hand on heart telling me in 6+ months you haven’t seen a single person from outside your household socially, been to the pub, gone to dinner, seen your parents/in-laws, or anything like that? All you have done is ride on your own from your house and go to the super market once or twice a week? That seems way too extreme for me the mental health implications would be huge. I would be in a corner rocking in a deep depression right now.

No need to shut everything down this time surely?

If you ask the singletrack police thats exactly what we should do. Its easy to say shut everything but then you are face with the reality of supporting those that can’t work from home ie non essential factory work, and the entire hospitality industry.

Most people breaking lockdown don’t have £1000, they’re looking for their next fags, weed & booze whilst wandering the streets

Such classism because its not the hundreds of thousands of people hanging out in their homes mixing families, going to dinner and all that general summer socialising that happens. Its just the people with addictions. God Singletrack is such a narrow minded place at times this has to be one of the moronic statements I have read on Singletrack.

As for all the people talking about a “proper lockdown” im assuming right now you are all working from home, going to the shops once a week and only exercising from your house, and not socialising with anyone outside of your household? After all you are good citizens and would NEVER do anything that would potentially further the spread of the virus. I hope you’re all still riding solo too.

Joepud … or a vaccine.

<span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”>Has everyone given up on that idea?</span>

<span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”>The whole point of restrictions is to protect people until there is a vaccine and keep the wheels on the NHS.</span>

I have. It took God knows how long to get rid of polio whats the likelihood of them solving covid in less than a year. Very slim I bet. Even if there is a vaccine they still need the logistics to get it to everyone which will take a long time….  But we always got the moonshot.

I’m totally onboard with protecting the NHS it’s why I never vote Tory, but we need to be realistic we can’t just expect people to stay inside lock themselves away it’s too draining for people.

I’m well aware of the risks and flaws in my suggestion, I’m waiting for an alternative suggestion

well dude, i don’t have one i just know putting army on the street isnt a good idea. Historically when have that ever ended well. If we had decent social services and the gov’ could provide for people who have to isolate and not work maybe more people would be willing to stay at home.

Close to what my wife, a nurse, said this week. Except she said it’s here for good and reckons almost everyone will get it eventually.

Gotta be honest its not totally an original thought my sister in law said it too and shes a GP. All we can hope is getting better treatment to ensure less people die of it.

It’s the middle period where it’s dragged on and things have slipped for a lot of people. With a bit of effort and nudging in the right direction I’m sure we could do a lot to get it under control without wrecking the country and unleashing the Stasi to crush folk straying too far on a bike ride.

I think this is pretty key. Lockdown fatigue is a real thing people can’t be expect to follow such extreme rules all the time without it having serious implications on mental health. Slips are always going to happen and people will take risks they feel are acceptable, for example even at the height of lockdown I was still doing 40/50 mile rides from my house roads were dead, interacted with no one touched nothing I didn’t own myself apart from the odd gate on a fire road/bridal way.

The only real way to get the R number down and get this thing gone is all stay inside until we have a vaccine but that isn’t practical unless the gov’ want to invest some seriously socialist measures. We need to learn to live with this thing its gonna be around for a long time.

@joepud – I was talking about enforcing another proper lockdown.

I’m open to your alternative suggestions as to how the resources can be found to make a better job of it next time. Covid Marshall’s maybe?

I don’t have an alternative but I don’t need one to know putting the army on the streets to “hold someone while the copper does his job” is a bad idea. Just what job are the police doing taking people home, arresting them… giving then a kicking. I mean lets just give the police guns after all we need to enforce a “proper lockdown.” A nation wide lockdown is so bad for peoples mental health lets just think about that for a minute.

Personally, I have no problem with teaming up a copper with members of the armed forces and give them the power to arrest and hold someone while the copper does his job, I know others will start worrying about martial law and military rule, that’s fine to have a different opinion to mine.

wow, a bit of an over reaction to a few people sitting in a park in a group bigger than 6. A few people may start worrying about martial law because that easy what it sounds like. Just for a second imagine how that would go down. You already have groups of the public who are disproportionately targeted by the police (and fined during covid) so what you are suggested is we let the army follow them around too…. because thats gonna end well.

The whole “oh Corbyn would have been worse” is such an awful argument and not even something to debate its 100% fictional. People are like oh Boris makes decisions but there is zero conviction in then because in 5 seconds he will change his mind. Also, why are Tories still so concerned with Corybn hes not even in charge any more… Tories are a joke.

Would anyone on here care to out themselves as a tory voter in 2019 and share with us how they now feel about how they voted?

This I would love to know. Promised he was gonna “get brexit done” and his deal was “oven ready” wouldnt sell off the nhs and believed the whole Comrade Corbyn rubbish. If i voted Tory (that make me a little sick in the mouth) I would feel well and truly mugged off.

I don’t think for a minute that Johnson will still be there in February. The question at the moment is will he last until Christmas, given how everything is panning out for him.

If Johnson goes which awful person takes his place Rishi, Hancock… or ANOTHER election.

thanks Tired, that makes sense, getting on a bus and going into town this week, public transport use is waaaay down.

I got the northern line a week or so ago at “rush hour” and managed to get on the first tube at london bridge and even got a seat! I was amazed. Like already said our only saving grace right now is the majority of the city is still working from home and will be for the long term. Seems logical the cases will rise here soon too. somehow they ned to get a grip on it but we cant stay locked away forever until this vaccine does or doesnt appear.

There is such a gulf between events on the ground and the moonshots and the world-beatings does anyone out there actually believe this carp?

Sadly a lot do for the life of me I can’t understand why. He says absolutely nothing of substance. This “moonshot” plan which isn’t a plan it’s just and idea with so much still to work out is madness.

My biggest issue with this lot of Tories is their absolute contempt for everyone that they can say what they want with zero come back. But what do you expect from a bunch of rich white males.

An initial reaction to “black lives matter” of “wait, what about white lives?” is pretty understandable

I don’t think the concept of other white people comes into it, these morons just think oh does that mean i dont matter.

The only possible good outcome now is that enough Tory voters realise what an incompetent shambles they’ve elected. They’ve **** up Covid, they’re **** up Brexit, as a result they’ve **** the economy.

Very much doubt that. Boris will trot out some slogan like hands, face, space, oven ready or even get brexit done and they will fall for it again. After that they will just say oh well Corbyn couldn’t have done better despite him not even being the party leader any more.

There’s a big difference between being not-racist and being anti-racist. I know it doesn’t seem like it. I know that both of these things seem equally good, but they’re not. 

This is 100%

As this is on page 2 now i thought it was important to highlight two awful comments made my members of this forum. Yes I am calling them out again and in not really bothered.

TheArtistsFormerlyKnownAsATS
Some might say there is no issue with raising awareness of racial injustice, but I’m sure the whole world is aware of the George Floyd matter now I don’t see the need for it politicising on prime time Saturday night family TV.

Robj20

The whole black lives matter is rubbish.
Surely of you want to get rid of racial anything it should just be lives matter.

There will always be a racial divide if they keep doing things like this.
I don’t see a black person or a white person, it’s just a person.

I just don’t even get how people can think like this. These opinions are shocking and should have no place on this forum.Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

wow, some of the comments… just lost for words. And people say cycling doesn’t an issue with racism and diversity but clearly that isn’t the case. If you take issue with blm or some people dancing simply to matter have a word with yourself.

That’s depressing to watch, he’s just blithering until it’s time for the next question, then repeat until it’s over.

I can’t work out if he just doesn’t have the answers or he thinks so little of people “below him” he doesn’t feel like he has to give them a response.

thanks for all the info people. I think at this rate im gonna end up with the standard wireless mac one. gonna try and do some more reading. the idea of a keyboard not working on a mac didn’t even enter my head.

just reviving this as im after a mechanical keyboard for my mbp. Ideally wireless as apple have non standard plugs and i hate wires. Currently looking at this a <span class=”a-size-medium sc-product-title a-text-bold”>Epomaker AKKO 3084 </span>Anyone know anything about them or point me in the direction of a similar wireless mechanical keyboard?

cheers!

wow and ergo is huge, will take up most my kitchen table. good shout on the hub though!

It might be easier to just splash “Rule 1” across some billboards and see who actually complies…

Few scientists came out yesterday and said the rule of 6 is pretty pointless. It may limit the risk but its more important to socially distance when meeting 6 or 600 people. Cover you face and wash hands the best we can do currently…. or as our glorious leader puts it hands, face, and space.

Am I missing something? Aren’t there loads of sports which seem to be getting the same treatment?

is fox hunting really an organised sport I thought it was done to “control” the population of animals. I don’t know a lot about it but im assuming there isnt a winner at the end… well only the fox if he gets away.

FYI. Me and my mates can’t play our regular weekly football match because we aren’t doing ‘organised sport’. In this instance ‘organised’ means FA affiliated league (with 3rd party insurance cover), led by coaches, having a Covid Officer and having a Covid Risk Assessment carried out.

im in exactly the same situation, in a whatapp group with friends who all play basketball. Court wont let us play for these exact reasons. Last i heard they said we could play basketball but had to socially distant AT ALL times which obvs isnt possible when playing basketball or any sport.

you don’t have a clue about shooting and how it’s way safer [in a Covid 19 sense] than going shopping and any form of group biking.

(just FYI a shooting group would be made up of, usually, 12 people maximum spread over an area of 200-300m)

You’re right I don’t have a clue about shooting im not that posh. If a group is usually made up for 12 why set it at 30?  its more than double what us normal people can do. From the outside it feels like Tarquin and Jeffrey want to shoot on the weekend so they added this loop hole.

I know it is ment to be simple but I am still not clear. Are sporting events not allowed now? Or is it only if you can’t social distance?

organised sporting events are ok for example southern enduro series. But obvs you and 10 mates cant meet for a mates race or general ride in the forest. Realistically its impossible to police

the fact the rich can meet in groups of 30 and shoot foxes is just further proof this virus does discriminate its us and them. I don’t even get how this got passed as an exception. I cannot stand the tories and anyone that votes for them.

I think your platform is tipping over at this point with the weight of the extra strawmen

Really good of you to just totally disregard a personal experience and one that’s repeated throughout our industry. Just look at the lack of diversity in this industry but that’s another topic.

And as already covered doing work for a charity or not for profit is a lot different than doing something for a start up who will likely make money off a designers work. If you design a t-shirt for someone and they profit off your work  by selling said t-shirtwhy shouldn’t you be compensated?

I have also done free work in the past for a fair few charities which I feel is reasonable thing to do.

the problem is, there’s no real reason why a “bedroom designer” with enough talent CAN’T churn out something just as good as a “proper” designer, with a fraction of the overheads. Everyone has access to the same professional tools cheaply now. I

I never said a bedroom designer couldn’t produce quality work i just think offering work for free devalues what we do and thats something I stand by. Just look at music no one values it any more the idea of paying for a single album is madness for most. Another way of looking at it is does working for free actually exclude people. Only a select group of people will be able to work for free, basically those who are fortunate enough (could say privileged) to have financial support to do it for free. For example I had to turn down a placement at M&C Saatchi when I graduated because it wasn’t paid while other more fortunate uni friends were able to take up unpaid interns at places like W&K and BBH. I feel like its not complicated do some work for someone and they pay some how either an exchange of services, money, or even stock options

Agree, i think in the entire discussion referenced maybe twice and it was just that the initial question went unanswered. No one gave you stick or anything of the sort. It was simply a discussion by a group of people who share a profession.

If you can’t beat ’em…?

then how do i pay my mortgage.

<span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”>One of my many main bugs of this situation is these “businesses” who ask for a free logo or website when you ask them for something for free they think you’re on crack. A car dealer once asked me for a free website so I asked him for a free car he looked at me like i was mental – claimed selling car was his business… its like hello what do you think being a designer is for me. </span>

If someone is happy paying £50 for something knocked up from Clipart in ten minutes rather than £500 for a quality piece of customised work then whilst it seems to me to be a particularly ill-advised place to be scrimping, ultimately that’s their lookout is it not?

Not really us as a design community should put much more worth in the value we give to businesses. We need to educate clients and make them understand why a logo costs a lot of money rather than bending and being yeh sure i will do it for free. If you are offering your services for free it shows how much you value your skill or dont.

LOL, there are a few moaners.

as one of the key moaners to be fair its one of my biggest issues i have with the design industry people just dont see the value in it due to all the bedroom designers.

Still no answer from the OP though 🤷‍♂️

yeh, funny that.

I wonder if you could constantly video your screen to show the design process then supply them with a speeded up video of it?

haha yeh, i would put one on my face too so they can see despair as i work on version 60 of their logo or website.

The Conservative Government and the people who voted for them are to blame for the poor handling in the U.K.

This 100%! Yes we did’t know we would be a pandemic but, these people decided to vote for a party who can do nothing more than come up with 3 or 4 word slogans and drive a digger through a fake wall. (also with a 3 word slogan on it.) These people voted in an incompetent gov’ and fell for the spin hook line and sinker. A few claps for the NHS doesn’t absolve your guilt.

You should try being a photographer – people just straight up steal your work, never mind demand you work for free!

Similar happened to a friend. Someone stole a photo off his IG for a business card got it made then asked if they could use it. Once he said well ideally you should pay for the photo the guy was like oh no bother I will use another. Apparently he was just letting him know he was using the photo out of politeness… its like no the polite thing to do is say can i use this photo how much does it cost.