Halfords as a company should have a demo fleet of their high end bikes that they can send round their stores for customers to have a go on.

It is unreasonable though for somebody to go in to a store and expect to just take a bike of the shelves and bring it back a day later. I once had a customer demo a brand new bike over 48 hrs and when he returned with the bike he said he’d buy it but he wanted a discount as it was 2nd hand. I tried to explain to him that he was the only person who had ever thrown a leg over the bike but his response was “That’s not really the point though is it? It’s still 2nd hand”.

Of course looks are important.

The engineering principle that bigger diameter tubes make for stiffer/stronger structures is quite a basic one. So aesthetics is the only reason that I can think of to explain why when Fisher introduced the ‘evolution’ headset in 89 that it was pooh-poohed by the magazines.

Now who was working for a mtb magazine back in the early 90’s?

Sorry MountainMonkey but my Truvativ stem is 100mm with a 25.4 clamp so it wouldn’t work with your bars. If you don’t mind changing your bars you can have the stem for a fiver.

Just measured my Truvativ team stem in the shed and the stack height is the same as FSA at 35mm.

Yep, a Crank Brothers head set with a Truvativ stem (they only have one bolt) should fit.

Chin up SlowJohn, things will get better. But if things get really bad I want first dibs on the bike :wink:

If you had read the poster (you probably couldn’t see it on your high horse) you’d have noticed that it is not aimed at getting your business away from CRC but a making sure that a newbie or a kids bike is not bought from Halfords or somewhere worse.

Oh and CRC haven’t got ANY 2009 Hope QR’s, so yeah you should support your local neighbourhood bike shop as they are better stocked than the mail order place with low overheads, no coffee and haven’t got any staff who actually ride bikes.

Dibbs – Do you work for ATB Sales?

How strong is the GPS lock? Does it loose the signal under tree cover?

I haven’t weighed a bike since I gave up racing in my teens. Anyhow on the bathroom scales mine comes out at 28.1lbs.
At first I thought bloody hell I could set up a full-susser that would weigh less, then I remembered that I’d have to maintain pivots and bushings and have another springy bit to tune and maintain as well. It might not be the lightest but at least there’s less to go wrong.

Anyhow after looking at the spec of rs’s Alpine I realise that it could be heavier as mine is a similar spec and 2.5lbs lighter.

It’s a NS Bikes Society frame, 2008 Manitou Minute IT with 20mm axle, mainly X9 spec with a Stylo chainset and XT discs and not a bit of carbon anywhere.

Makes a Ti frame look like good value.

Nope that’s not the problem Jeremy. These wheels are both run on a 2008 Manitou Minute with a 20mm bolt-through. These forks use a ‘hex axle’ which is just a an axle with internal threads that you screw a bolt into to put tension on the hub.

One of the ProII hubs works fine, you put the axle through the hub, turn on some tension till you feel the bolt getting tight, tighten up the bolts on the front of the fork, hey presto it works fine.

With the other hub though if you try and do the same it rattles about on the axle even if you tighten up the tension bolt so tight that it won’t turn anymore.

I’ve got two ProII front wheels and run both with 20mm spacers. One of the wheels sits perfectly with no play the other rattles about along the axle. Both of these wheels are less than 6 months old.

Does anybody know of any washers/shims that can be fitted between the spacer and the bearing to take up the play?

Handjobs are good if you can’t afford the extra for a Hummer.

Neither are as good as doing a girl in the stink though 8O

Yep it’s Osbourne. These stickers are normally on cars owned by people of a certain age (old people) who think that advertising the fact that they have been to Spain on holiday shows people how affluent and well travelled they are.

Manitou IT forks have a handle bar mounted lever that can take the forks from anywhere in-between full to zero travel in less than a couple of seconds.

Hmmm, IF CEN testing means the demise of steel hardtails then they need to re-evaluate the testing standards as there are obviously lots of good, strong steel hardtails already available that there is nothing wrong with. On the other hand though I’m all for a standard of testing that frames have to be subjected to before they are made available to the public.

I bought one of the first type geared Inbreds from Brant. The frames down tube and top tube had the same diameter and wall thickness. The front end crumpled when the front wheel got stuck in a rut. After a 20 mile walk home I called On-One and they said that they would sell me a new frame at half the price of a new one which I thought was a good deal. When the new frame turned up it was a mkII geared Inbred which although the frames geometry, intended fork travel and intended use was identical to the original the down tube had now increased in size. Obviously this increase in the down tube size made the frame weigh slightly more but it did increase front end stiffness and importantly strength. Now I obviously don’t know how many ‘original’ geared Inbred frames front ends crumpled, or whether the re-design of the down tube was down to product development or rectifying a fault with the original. What I do know though is that the original Inbred frame would not pass CEN testing and therefore would never have been sold. So if CEN testing would have meant that I wouldn’t have had do a 20 mile walk with blood gushing out my face and then had hand over £80 to get my bike fixed then I’m all for it.

vortexracing – the reason i’m asking badgergoo about the steerer is because there was a batch of oem 454’s made with steel steerers.
Still good value at £320 with a steel steerer, if they are proper after-market forks with an alu steerer they are fantastic value though.

badgergoo – Is the steerer steel or alu?

Hora – When you own/run a bike shop it’s a bit more serious than a “hobby”. And if you are a Recruitment Consultant then I find it a bit ironic that you are not willing to pay a bit more for expert advice at a bike shop when the service you supply can be had for free at the Job Centre.

I can’t obviously speak for all LBS’s but when I was a manager of a LBS my staff consisted of me – I represented the UK at the Worlds as a junior, had worked as mtb guide in Spain, a sales rep for an Outdoors kit company and had 20 years of general mtb experience. Louise Robinson – Was current female CX champion, regining Three Peaks champion, had raced for the massive Raleigh/SAAB world cup team, her dad was the first brit to win a stage of the Tour and her partner was then the main buyer for Halfords performance range and has since set up Isla bikes. Ross and Pete (the saturday lads) – both raced for England and the UK in multiple disciplines and both were pretty awesome on trials and dh bikes, I think Ross is now the manager but I digress. Dave Goodenough – A bicycle mechanic with over 30 years experience and finest wheel builder I’ve ever seen. Robin Warne – A good junior racer when younger who had stopped racing but was incredibly well informed in the bike trade, He’s now the international sales manager for Hope.
Now don’t take this the wrong way but if you think you know more about bikes than these guys then your either Gary Fisher in disguise or your deluding your self.

JasonLock – As I said in my first post there is no excuse for a LBS not stocking a range of stems in all sizes, rises and bar diameters (especially 31.8 as the reason that was developed was so that shops could buy stems that fitted both mtb and road bikes). If a LBS is a Trek dealership they do a range of Bonty stems in all sizes that are pretty good as far as stems go and offer good vfm. Also without a complete range of stem sizes in stock I don’t see how a LBS can fit a customer for a bike properly.
On the other hand though I think it’s unreasonable for a customer to expect a shop to stock all sizes, in all colours, from all makes all of the time.

So if Ton was willing to buy a 70mm stem from any manufacturer then his LBS’s are a bit poor. If he was looking for a stem from a particular manufacturer in a particular colour then maybe he’s being a bit picky by expecting them to stock everything a cyclist could ever want.

I do despair sometimes when you read about the poor service offered by some LBS’s and also the ridiculously high expectations of some customers as well.
In a previous life I ran a LBS in the W.Midlands. It was a tiny, family owned affair that catered for the local cycling community. We never had the largest amount of stock but we would always stock ‘mid-priced’ stems in all sizes from both Bonty and Truvativ. The reason for this was two-fold. Obviously the stems were stocked as items to sell to customers, we had two roadie club-runs start from outside the shop so we would quite often sell something like a stem so that somebody could try out a new position. The second and most important reason was that as a LBS we needed some way to differentiate ourselves from the chainstores and online retailers, the best way I found was through the level of service we offered. When a customer bought a bike from us, whether it be a top of the range Trek full-susser or a cheap Ridgeback hybrid every bike was sized up and made to fit the customer perfectly. That we would mean we would change stem lengths and rises to suit, swap saddles around to suit different arses, etc, etc. Every customer was always encouraged to take the bike out for a test ride before money was exchanged and after they bought the bike they would get a free service after 1 and 3 months and there after they would get free labour on repairs and servicing on bikes they bought from us.
At the same time though we would still get customers coming in wanting us to price match on products that they had seen for sale online from web-retailers that also own the distribution company for said product. I remember one customer that after all his years of loyal custom was aghast that I couldn’t sell him an Inbred frame cheaper than Brant!

It’s image 7

I don’t think you’ve had any responses because everyone who has tried to take a corner on them has died.

Had a go on some on some wet grass and I’m sure they cant have given any more grip than a full-slick. Things would have to be very dry and smooth before I’d use them.

In saying that they did feel really fast though.

LardLover – Crikey you’re a complex fella aren’t you. I’m sure your last post made perfect sense to you but I still can’t work out why you say

I no longer have ANY interest in mountain biking

yet look at mountain bike websites.

Each to their own though.

Filthy – It’s a NSBikes Society frame. It climbs better than an Inbred or a Soul (I think it’s due to a stiffer BB area) and descends better than any alu hardtail I’ve ridden. As you can tell I’m really happy with it.

LardLover – Don’t take this the wrong way but if you only own a road bike and don’t intend on buying a mtb then why you here?

Not a comprehensive list, I worked out that I put a new frame together with bits at least once every three months, but ones that I have photos of.

Erm, how do you get rid of the ads?

Oh cmon kelvin do you really think that if an XT chainset is sold for any less than £200 then it will be sold for a loss?

If that is the case then Madison will be bankrupt within 12 months. If you think that Madison’s profit margin has been stripped to virtually zero on Shimano equipment then even a slight down turn in sales will result in them going under.

Oh and I know that Trek don’t sell £1000+ bikes to a certain large bike chain that begins with ‘E’ and ends with ‘s’ at a price that they can make 38% margin on.

So if they aren’t making 38% profit it’s pretty safe to assume that your local independent bike shop isn’t making anywhere near that sort of margin.

williyboy – if Madison thought they couldn’t sell an XT chainset for £200 then they wouldn’t stock them, what would be the point? Price is always based on the relationship between ‘supply’ (how much something costs to produce/buy in) and ‘demand’ (how much are customers willing to pay).

What is the point of buying in stock and then trying to sell it at a price that nobody is willing to pay? I know maths isn’t my strong point but I do know that the company that sells 1000 units and makes £1 profit per unit makes more money than the company that sells 500 units but makes £1.50 profit who in turn makes more money than the company that sells nothing but would have made £2 profit per unit.

Nobody has said that the cost of importing goods from abroad hasn’t increased. What I have been trying to illustrate is that so far there hasn’t been a decrease in demand for mid to high end bikes and accessories and that is why mid to high end bikes and accessories have seen higher price rises than almost everything else.
Most ‘high street’ retailers have had to cut margins to keep stock moving. So far it seems that the ‘high end bike trade’ has been able to keep it’s margins roughly the same which means that either demand for products hasn’t changed or that the whole bike trade is about to hit the skids.

turnip – 38% margin seems a lot for the bike trade. Bike margins are normally in the teens and twenties. I may need nobtwidler to back up my maths though.

nobtwidler – sweet lord. It’s lucky I did my GCSE’s donkeys years ago. My sincerest apologies. I seem to be saying that a lot 8O

willyboy – obviously prices were put up to maintain margins but a margin of profit is only viable if the product is sold. If you don’t sell a product it will not matter whether a RRP is set to make 1% or 100% profit, no sale = zero profit. So therefore profit margins/RRP’s have to take into account demand as the product regardless of profitability still needs to be sold. So a company as large as Shimano or Madison will have looked at previous years sales figures and sales forecasts and set their prices accordingly.

So the reason an XT chainset costs £200 is because of 2 factors. 1: A 45% drop in the strength of Sterling when compared to the Yen. 2: Because Madison reckon they can still sell XT chainsets at £200.

My humble apologies. I got the RRP from CRC, should have realised that would be wrong :wink:

ES71 BB (XT BB) 2007 – RRP £29.49
ES50/51 BB (LX quality, which is relevant here as the BB with a current XT chainset is the same as on an SLX chainset) 2007 – RRP £14.99

So in 2007 you could get the equivalent of a 2009 XT chainset and SLX BB for £120, where as today it will cost you £200.

Granted the 40% price increase from 2007 to 2009 almost mirrors exactly the % decrease of the strength of the pound against the Yen. But the raw material costs of alu and steel in 2007 were triple what they are today. So if we are to believe that current price rises were only applied to maintain a manageable profit margin is it therefore not acceptable to believe that a huge decrease in raw material costs will also soon be reflected in RRP’s?

Shimano XT M751 Chainset 2007 – RRP £104.99.

Shimano XT Chainset M770 2009 – RRP £205.52

mrmo – All valid points. What I was trying to illustrate though is that if you look at the price of other non bike related Japanese made goods they have not yet had a 25% price increase. The reason that bike companies have been able to put the their prices up so quickly is because demand has not been affected. We are still buying bikes and bits and bobs at the same rate as we were last year.

When/if demand drops for high end bikes and bits and bobs then rest assured we’ll see price decreases.

Oh and I’m sorry Halfords have put their prices up. A Jupiter Trailblazer Mens 21″ Rigid Mountain Bike sold for £79.99 in 07/08. The same spec bike now sells for £89.99. An increase of 8%.

Compared to the rest of the ‘high street’ bike sales so far have hardly been effected by the recession, that is the real reason that bike prices will not be going down. It’s a simple supply and demand curve while demand is high then so are prices.

smogmonster – your right for the 5 years running up to the recession prices where increased year on year as we are told that there is a shortage of raw materials thus forcing up the price. Alu, ti and steel is currently about a fifth of what it cost 3 years ago. Logic would say that the decrease in raw material costs should help offset currency fluctuations, but as we know that isn’t the case.

Isn’t it strange though how an XT cassette can nearly double in price in less than 12months yet Halfords can still sell a Shimano equipped bike for less than £150 just like it has done for the last 5 years.

Any mineral oil will work but different brands do have different consistencies so will not mix.
In general terms all the ‘bikey’ mineral oils have a thinner consistency than the automobile ones. I’ve used Halfords ‘car’ mineral oil in my Shimano brakes and I did notice that the brakes felt a bit more sluggish at the lever, the oil was also noticeably thicker when filling the brakes up.
Stendec sell a mineral oil that although not cheap does seem to work incredibly well in Shimano brakes.

Surely the only thing that you could lose off a fork and not notice would be a Rock Shox rebound adjuster?

Any bike shop worth it’s salt will already have 650b tubes in stock. It’s an old road bike size.