Not as worth it in pound per gram terms as other upgrades but assuming you’ve got your bike how you like it and can afford it, and you’re not planning to change the shock anytime soon then go for it.

The weight and weight saving varies greatly between spring sizes and even brands. They look “pro” and don’t deaden over time as steel springs seem to do.

Nothing jumps out spec wise on the twenty that would be a must have or a necessity, nor does anything strike me as an amazing upgrade, in value for money terms. The 520 cro-mo genesis hardtails ride very nicely too.

At full retail I think I’d be going for the ten, selling the forks, brakes and or wheels and buying some higher spec used items. Gradually upgrade other bits as I wear them out. With 10 – 15% off rrp the 20 starts to look much more attractive.

Buy a bike when you get there. They are much cheaper and towards the end of the season they should be easy to get hold of as people flog them to get next seasons off the peg bike or because of injury.

You’ll get absolutely battered if you take a trailstar to the bike park. Bring the bike you buy back with you, you probably won’t lose money on it.

There was a rumour doing the rounds that the rider in the last one died from his injuries. Punctured lung apparently. I prefer the other rumour that he just broke a lot of bones.

geetee1972
BTW Jimjam, are you Jambo from Sussex MTB? Did you buy the Fox forks off of me about 4 years ago? It was an eBay transaction but you popped round to collect.

I am not!

geetee1972

Yeah may be the case. To be fair he does know exactly what he wants but we’re not sure it really exists just yet.

It could be done, but I’d imagine it’ll take a very bling and non standard build. If he could get one, and that’s a big if, the stock Whyte 146 works ticks all the boxes and could be made even lighter than stated.

Sounds like your friend doesn’t really know what he wants but…how about a Zesty 914 with offset shock bushings and a 36 set at 140mm?

For an objective test you’re gonna want similar set up, cockpit and tyres on both bikes. Everyone’s opinion is going to vary based on set up and personal preference.

For what it’s worth I’ve ridden the current alpine and plenty of enduros and the geo on my older sx trail is very close to the current enduro. I would give the alpine a slight edge in climbing due to the steep seat angle. I would say that the enduro is a more competent and confidence inspiring descender. I think at the end of the day it’ll come down to whether you like the feel of a single pivot or a 4 bar.

It might be worth considering that it’ll take a stellar build to get an alpine down to the spesh’s 31 lbs. My friends alpy with air can, 36 rc2, 819s, thompson and xtr build is 37 lbs. Waits for someone saying they have same build and it weighs 30 lbs.

Things started to go off about ’06 ’07. Kona had invested massively in creating a reputation as a top gravity brand, they had top riders in all the big freeride films and Fabien Barel doing the business on the wc circuit. Then gradually things started to get stale.

The new generation of freeriders, McCaul, Berrecloth, Hunter, Sorge and co were missed by Kona and started creating amazing marketing for their competitors on progressive new bikes while Kona’s new riders seemed more dj and slopestyle focues. Then Kona canceled their DH race programe. Like it or not freeride and particularly DH are the F1/WRC of mtb. They are what sell brands and Kona dropped the ball. While other companies were trying hard to be seen to be developing new technologies, Kona stuck with the faux bar. Year on year, the only thing to differentiate a new Kona from the old one seemed to be an uglier paint job and a bigger price tag.

They are bloody expensive for what you get too.

Struggling to think of any bikes I’ve owned where it stayed up. Think it did on my 97 Kilauea, but thats it.

I’ve not heard about anyone suffering a broken neck, jaw and a fractured skull on account of a bolt through axle come out of the drop outs. Stiffer is usually better too.

Dual ply tyres and light tubes. For aggro dh at anything below rock hard pressures you’ll still be able to pinch a dh tube and sidewall roll could be an issue too.

gb1m

I know what your saying , I know I’m not going to get a replacement because there arn’t any but surly a %10 discount or take it back and sort the paint work is not to much to ask on a £3k bike.

You’re entitled to something yes, and if the dealer is gonna give you a reverb that’s decent of them. Don’t forget you’re asking for 10% off the retail and that’s a precedent they probably don’t want to set. With hurried production and a massive back log yours is probably not the only frame with cosmetic defects. ATB would be taking a big hit at £300 quid off the unit cost of every bike.

I would second what others have said about ATB too, good backup and Alan is a top bloke.

.All carbon frames are like this with lumps/dints in them and most manufacturers use filler to hide them.

leggyblonde
what a load of crap. I’ve seen many other perfect looking unpainted carbon frames too

When you start scrutinizing the finish on brand new high end bikes you get used to seeing some pretty shoddy quality. Probably more common on boutique brands and lower volume frames. Carbon Santa Cruz’s for example are often woeful when you look closely.

To the OP, it’s bound to be a bit annoying that it’s not “perfect”, but, you’ve waited an age for it and at the end of the day it’s a mountainbike. If it was mine the paint would be pretty much ruined in 6 months.

If it was a spesh or a giant you’d probably get a new frame if you kicked up a fuss because they’ve got thousands of them. If Whyte were in a position to do so they probably would but, being a relatively small company with a seriously hot product they probably can’t. Demand has way outstripped supply because plenty of people have realised it’ll be a weapon.

You could give it back and get something else but the 146 has perfect geometry, killer looks and is feather weight. It’s probably one of the rarest most sought after bikes around and I’m sure it’ll be awesome to ride. You’d kind of be cutting your nose off to spite your face by giving it back because of something cosmetic imo.

Out of curiosity did you pay full rrp for it?

Another Point One Podium user here. As you would hope/expect they feel incredible. Large, comfortable, grippy platform. Pretty much make any other flat feel bulky, cumbersome and nasty. However, I’ve had mine replaced under warranty recently, the tiny bearings at the end of the axles just collapsed leaving the races fused to the body, virtually impossible to remove without damaging the body making new bearing installation futile. Both Point One and Hotlines were very helpful with the warranty though.

davidtaylforth

Wow, £170 for some pedals. Pointless.

Wow, £6000 for a pushbike? Pointless. Wow, £1100 quid for forks, pointless. Wow £200 for a mech, pointless. Etc.
Durability issue aside they are vastly superior to any of the many other pedals I’ve used.

I’ve got quite an old lobo and a havoc. The havoc, albeit a great piece of kit is just far too heavy and unwieldy for most riding days. I find myself rarely using it unless I’m trailbuilding and need to carry tools, jacket, food, water beer etc, so I’d disagree with whoever above said they’d prefer an emptier big pack than a stuffed small pack.

The lobo is perfect for most of the riding I do, and I think it would carry most of what the o.p needs apart from maybe the lock and jacket. Depending on what size they are. The new lobo has a fair bit more storage than mine and I think the front panel might have enough room to stuff a waterproof jacket.

perthmtb – Member

And….just noticed that on the Camelbak web site the Octane doesn’t make it into the 24 different models designed for cycling – they’ve put them in the ‘running’ category. Am I missing something here – maybe those nifty low down side pockets have some disadvantage on a bike? Anyone??

They describe it as a multisport bag. A friend of mine has one for the bike and likes it. I’m not crazy about it as it doesn’t keep much shape to it, but it is light for such a big pack.

Have a look at maxxis medusa’s too. Have a few xc racer mates who’ve used them for very muddy winter series races and liked them.

I wouldn’t expect you to remotely understand anything I wrote up there dipsh*t. If you don’t have anything constructive to say keep it shut.

Jimjam you are seriously retarded, I thought even someone with a brain as small as yours could understand;

“In Brian Lopes book mastering mountain bike skills there is a diagram explaining what I said”

I wouldn’t want to miss the opportunity to say that you’re a prick, and a gormless one. As per my original post, you’ve just pulled completely arbitrary “stats” out of your ass. All you’ve got to back up your pretty ridiculous made up statistic is a diagram in a book written by two mountainbikers. Not doctors, or physios, two bikers. The main author Lee McCormack is selling mtb fitness training programes on his site that he asked James Wilson to create for him. A person who, according to you

really doesn’t have a clue what he is going on about

I had a look online and the page, no, paragraph that you are referencing doesn’t mention anything, nothing, about quantifying efficiency gains with spds. All it does is explain the mechanics of a good pedal stroke for the hard of thinking.

So, again, do you have any reputable evidence to back up your “40% increase in efficiency” statistic that you made up, other than a book written by a couple of mountainbikers, which doesn’t even remotely suggest what you are claiming?

Obviously you don’t have the book, or any skills.

You’re right, I don’t have the book. I’ve never felt the need to buy a book to teach me how to ride a bike. Maybe because I ride flats.

The o.p is new to the sport, he would benefit from balanced informed opinion, not more lies and half truths propagated by internet riding legends like you.

Cane Creek, Acros and Chris king make deeper crown races (king call them something else). I think the Acros one is 6mm’s more than standard and is intended for use with one of their deeper (lower) headsets.

Unless you’ve got the right king,cc, or acros headset it’ll not be simple or cheap, and even then you won’t get twenty mill. If you’ve got a full sus you might want to look at those offset shock mount bushings to slacken your ha.

low – Member

I wouldn’t expect you to remotely understand anything I wrote up there

I understand someone pulling figures from their ass just fine thanks. You seem awfully agitated that someone would even dare question your mighty statistic generating ability.

If you don’t have anything constructive to say keep it shut.

Post some evidence from a respected body to back up your claims or stop spouting laughable tripe.

dipsh*t.

Twunker.

flow

I don’t have the stats

Now there’s a surprise. My bullsh*t detector is tingling….

flow

but I would say SPD’s are roughly 40% more efficient than flats given the muscle groups utilised.

…ah there it is. Stats or GTFO.

paul20v

Ive just read through all of this thread (being a five owner)
and why is there so much girlie bitching ?
if you dont like it or like the ride it gives dont buy one simple as
im really at a loss as people feel the need to attack everything on a forum

What you see is probably a backlash to Orange 5 evangelists spamming every thread to wax lyrical about their beloved bikes. There seems to be no thread or topic where someone won’t mention their orange 5. You would almost think Orange were doing some low key marketing here or something :lol:

What Trailbike?
Orange 5

What UK do it all bike
Orange 5

What Bike for UK DH tracks.
Orange 5. You don’t need anything else.

Alpine 160. Any thoughts
Get a 5. Alpine is pointless.

What bike for the Alps?
5 with 36’s.

What XC Freeride bike
F I V E !!

What tyres for fireroads?
Doesnt matter – 5

esselgruntfuttock

I had some spare cash & fancied a new bike. The 1st bike I demo’d was the 2011 5. I didn’t try any others cos I just knew there was no point.

Perhaps if had demo’d some other bikes you might have found a better one?

.
I’ve had my 5 since September & **** love it.

But is it any good?

Surely the vast majority of films and sequences are pretty clean? The odd NWD sequence might have some sweary lyriks on the soundtrack but you could just watch them and either mute the offending audio or skip to the next chapter?

Tall and short. Like an all mountain bike on steroids. Some people will like that, others will hate it, I would fall into the latter camp.

jackoinmoss

Why so heavy though?

The frame is a pound lighter than bullit.

The stated weight of the bottlerocket is sans shock, the stated weight of the current bullit is with shock. With a coil shock the br frame weighs the guts of ten pounds.

jackoinmoss
Forks would be a pound lighter
Was hoping it could be built under 35lb?

Didn’t realise you’d be changing forks, just assumed it would be the build from your bullit. No point getting really hung up on weight, based on the ones I saw when I worked in a bike shop they generally just scrape under the 40lb mark with reasonable parts. You’ll want air fork, shock, lightweight wheels + tyres and an xt or similar spec drivetrain to get it sub 35lbs.

Yes.
No.
U-turn Lyrik or 36 talas.

I’m inclined to say you could bunny hop it, assuming you can maintain some speed on the way up to it. If you can’t bunny hop it, maybe try buying an Orange 5.

Chipped bone would probably piss me off if it kept me off the bike for any length of time.

Well, size and steepness of your take off is gonna depend on the terrain and where you want it to send you, but ideally you’ll want it to be about a bike length minimum to avoid it being awkward. You can always experiment as you build, it’s mostly guess work as they are all different.

When you’ve got your take off hit it as hard as you like and see where you land, this should give you some idea where to put the landing. Remember if your building in the dry you’ll probably be jumping much further than in the wet, or vice versa.

If you can, soften/taper off then near edge of the landing so that it’s not a harsh case, it’ll also help the landing last as no matter how small the gap, people will be casing it.

Only if it’s an Orange 5.

Yesterday I saw some knob on the motorway in a Audi A6. Totally over car’d he was too. His 2.7 is easily good for 150mph but he just sat at 70mph like a poof. Plus, he could have gotten a small family and maybe a dog in there but instead, he was on his own.

I smoked him in my obscure and impractical old car by going slightly faster than him. Don’t think he noticed me win mind.

nedoverendsmole – Member

160mm Spec Enduros are fantastic, much underated

I thought it was generally regarded as the best of its kind and only ignorant/snobish people thought otherwise?

Is this what mountain biking is about?

Is this what mountain biking is about?

Is this what mountain biking is about?

Is this what mountain biking is about?

I hear Shimoto is better anyway.

Apart from mountain kings, I would have to rate the Wierwolf as the worst tire I’ve ever used. Completely unpredictable limit characteristics and less pinch flat protection than a 2.1 xc tyre. Avoid.

I would see a lot more people going 1×10, especially when Hope and DT release their 36/9 tooth cassette formats.

More companies releasing shorter travel bikes with more aggressive geometry, ie like the Whyte 146 stump jumper evo. Really though, nothing dramatic is gonna happen in 12 months.

Five years though…oh just imagine. Everyone on electric bikes, oh yes. Electric dh bikes and electric xc bikes and electric trikes.

No way Hans, I feel sick. I blame it on the blue anodizationing overkill.

Not in a comfy way, no. To me they give little discernible comfort over a 5 10 or AM 40 in the “padded sould department. I think there is something in there to take there sting out of impacts but nothing like a soft or comfy trainer.

davidtaylforth

Having big muscles doesnt mean you’ll get up a hill quicker as you’ll be heavier and you wont have any endurance if you’ve just been doing weights in the gym.

Not necessarily big muscles – but stronger.

And I wasn’t implying that gym work alone would be a means to any end.