6 SLX chainrings, 4 chains, and a casette should see me through the next few years with the other bits I stocked up from merlin before things went as high as they are now

Kenda inner tubes are never that good though

Merlins raliegh ones are better imo

Specialized ones are better than both imo

Just fix your old ones. Chop up the big patches and you might get 14 patches out of a puncture repair kit for £1 [though edinburgh bicycle co-op ones are now £2 :-( ]

“The main pivot has begun to ovalise and the thread in one of the rear drop out pivots has failed”

What about specializeds lifetime warranty?

“Soon we’ll have shedfire ones too”
I thought they’ve yet to gain themselves (the bikes) a brand name yet

Given the sales of downhill only bikes are surely in a minority compared to MTBs bought by the ‘ordinary’ MTB masses (however much of a tool they may or may not be), would that make DHing a niche?

“You’re talking about the female of the species here, aren’t you? Stop beating around the bush and just say so”
No, more the trail centre crowd (of which I know many) I don’t know If they just like the man-made ‘perfect’ flow thing, or are scared to get lost, though seem to enjoy it when out on the ‘big’ hills (which isn’t often)

“Or is this a dig at us who use GPS and as for routes?”
Not really, but in a way. Whenever I’ve been led by someone with a GPS we’ve got ‘lost’ a few times. They seem to encourage you to stick with the GPS exaclty, the GPS is following the map inside itself and/or the less than carefully placed waymarkers, which is often not exact. They seem to encourage you to follow the GPS, instead of looking around and following your nose. Though none of the GPS’ had OS mapping.

“I do feel that people who only ride trail centres because they can’t read maps are missing out on a hell of a lot”
Me too

“Why not use a map board then?”
I’ve thought about it, but they would obscure the full vision of my front wheel, and are yet another thing to crash myself into when going over the bars

“Micro-navving in Sherwood is a different matter!”
I’ve not tried a map there, just know where the car park is, the ‘MTB area’ and the odd trail in between. Riding off to the quieter bit of the woods via any track that takes my fancy is good fun. Mentally knowing roughly where I am and what direction I’m facing, but not recognising anything and having to guess which way will take my back to the car is good fun. Even if the rest of your group aren’t quite so sure when you tell them you don’t know where you are

“Often trails on the map are just not there on the ground, or they’re impassable. Or overgrown so you can’t see them”
no, but you’re not lost. When theres no trail on the ground its a pain though. I still know where I am, I just don’t know where the trail is

What have you got now?

Though you’ll struggle to really go wrong with something suistable for the 5, bear in the arch-crown hieghts of the forks you are considering.
For instance a fox 32 @ 140mm is lower than a rockshox or magura 140mm
A fox 32 @ 100mm is lower (471mm) than a fox 36 @ 100mm (485mm), for winding down for climbing.

Magura Menja @ 130mm = 500mm
Rochshox Revelation/Recon @ 130mm = 508mm
Fox 32 @ 140mm = 511mm
Rockshox Revelation/Pike @ 140mm = 518mm
Magura Thor @ 140mm = 520mm

Magura Wotan @ 160mm = 540mm
Fox 36 @ 160mm = 545mm
Fox Lyrik @ 160mm = 545mm

Not sure about DT swiss/pace, (or even mavericks) though (I think quite short), ATA/TST marzocchis aren’t great by numerous accounts

“but its a £1500 frame on a £2000 bike, so inevitably the parts suffer as a result of the build…

Im also minted and want some bling, oh and generally just to put the bike on a diet”

If all that is true, why didn’t you just buy the more expensive DH10 model with the fox 40’s in the first place?

“Eh! You mean its been used for its intended purpose!”

The remedy is an ‘all-mountain bike’, not just a trail bike. Surely the remedy is more than a match for any of the stanes trails?

“does have holes but they are closer together than i/s mounts”
“The spacing may be 63mm?”

I think IS mount is 51mm

“try nz! Glentress blackrun (love it though i do) is a chicken run compared to some stuff over here.”

Glentress Black (more like a red) is a chicken run compared to some of the stuff in the UK too

“Why aren’t the downhiller’s running hardtails if that’s all ya need”
Probably because they’re wanting to get down as quick as they can. That and marketting hype

“Alternative is to buy a frame rather than a complete bike and start building”
Thats what the mag said to do
http://www.singletrackworld.com/2009/02/reviewed-genesis-io/

At the very least, wait until the SRAM one wears out/breaks/doesn’t fit a new frame or something
Even then a Deore/SLX/SRAM one should do the job. Unless you’re really trying to shave off the grams, is there any point getting XTR?
(XT is 3g lighter than the SLX one)

Wharncliffe? Stainburn? The peak (though not that jumpy/singletracky)?

Why do you have a front gear indicator, but not a rear one?

That pumps looks like its going to get kacked up too

has since gained higher rise bars, better saddle, tyres/rotors UK downsized ..

“probably spin out at 30mph or so on off-road descents. fast enough”

Make that more like 20 mph with a 32-11T gear selection
Maybe not properly spun out, but spun out enough not to be able to put any power down at your ideal spinning speed and not feeling much resistance

Yes, but finbar, you’re bike doesn’t fit into the rules of this ‘game’ by being second hand? and not retail, and coming as one item?

“A big rock jumped up and bashed and bent his big ring inwards he had to finish the rest of the ride in the granny”

I see. I’ve had one outer ring fold (a cheap truvativ one) once just pedalling along. When I got back I took an adjustable spanner to it and bent it back.

Shimano outer rings I’ve ridden/scraped over stuff have been fine though, just ground a few teeth on that one point on the ring

I’ve all but the last one of those bits of track, I’ve not really thought twice about running a triple on any of them.

“Can’t see why you would be in the big ring for 80% of Llandegla, maybe not very good at keeping momentum?”
Maybe instead of using gravity to speed up he likes to pedal upto speed. (or doesn’t just pootle round)

I’ve come up with:

9spd, suspension, V-brakes Handbuilt readily available freehub wheels, 27″ bars for £414
(+£15 for a bashguard – though not always needed with 1x9spd)

Sintesi 708 (inc. headset – inc. star but/top cap?) £80 – merlin
FSA seatpost £13 – CRC
Deore/Mavic XM117 V-brake wheels £60 – merlin (sale wheels)
Deore 9spd Casette/Chain (11-32 or 11-34T) £30 – merlin
Michelin Mud 2″ tyres £16 – CRC
tubes £5.50 – merlin
Deore triple chainset/BB £30 – merlin
Wellgo V8 flat pedals £11.50 – merlin
Selle Italia Saddle £12 – CRC
Truvativ Hussefelt 27″ bars/40mm stem £23 – merlin
Planet X grips £3 – CRC
Deore V-brake kit £33 – merlin
LX 9spd rear shifter £15 – merlin
Hone front mech £12 – CRC
LX rear mech £22 – CRC
Rockshox Dart 2 (postmount) £60 – CRC

27spd, shimano pre-bled hydraulics disc brakes, Hollowtech style triple chainset, air fork, lock on grips, SPDs, folding 2.3″ tyres, handbuilt readily available freehub wheels for £560.50

Merlin Malt 1 (inc. headset, seat QR, seatpost) £100 – merlin
Shimano Deore 6bolt/Mavic XM317 £84 – merlin (handbuilt wheels)
Deore 9spd Chain/casette (11-32 or 11-34T) £30 – merlin
Continental Gravity 2.3″ folding (and tubes) £36 – merlin
Truvativ Firex triple (hollowtech style BB) £45 – merlin
Shimano M520 SPD pedals (inc. cleats) £20 – merlin/JeJames
Selle Italia saddle £12 – CRC
Truvativ Hussefelt 27″ bars/40mm stem £23 – merlin
Outland lock on grips £10.50 – merlin
Deore dual control 27spd shifters/160mm 6-bolt rotors (post mount front) £80 – CRC
Hone front mech £12 – CRC
LX rear mech £22 – CRC
Marzocchi MZ air/coil fork £86 – merlin

By dropping the air fork, External BB, SPDs, folding tyres, lock on grips,
more-known-frame I can get it to £476.50 (So still got pre-bled hydros, 27spd)

Ooh, and I think except wheels/frames all the postage is inlcuded too

“he mulled his big ring on Hagg farm descent (Ladybower) if the majority of your riding in the peaks/rocky stuff they are worth it,”

How the **** did he manage that? Theres nothing on hagg farm descent to get close to a outer ring?
Are you seroius about the second comment? What/where in the ‘majority’ of the (Dark?) peak is a bash guard worth it?

Maybe if you’re running a chain device as well, I can see the benefit there, or if you don’t want to fork out for a big ring (though if you’re not using it, then you don’t need to replace it

For those few times I do scrape the big ring, I’ve not had a problem. The big ring is very useful on a few road sections (even on the big bike), not only as 32-11T (middle-little) is too small, but you can put the power down much better (also negating the chain angle its put at in 32-11)

Very orientated toward maxxis tyres, but ought to provide some insight

Why are ’09 Reba’s heavier than the ’08 ones?
The new rebas are only 40g lighter than 09 140mm revelations!

“No floodgate adjustment as it’s pre set but still great fork.”
I thought the SL had internal floodgate adjustment (allen key head behind the rubber cap on the motion control). I seem to remember playing about with it on a mates bike once

“High point – the new section that has recently been built marked on your map filthy black and old woods”

They were there in december, Has nothing more been built since then?

On the original map, do you have a key for it?
Obviously blue is the Kitchener trail

What are fat white lines? All the kitchener is on fat white lines, but it can’t be singletrack as theres singletrack bits I know signified only as red dashed lines?
So are red dashed lines? Non kitchener singletrack?

Presumably fat brown lines are the big wide fireroads?

Are narrow red solid lines the 1-2m tracks? In which case, what are red lines overlaid onto fat white lines?

Please help

“Back to the original Q”

The OP did ask (At the bottom of the first page) what bike to buy

A mate had a set, went back 2/3 times before hes given up with them/sold them
The stantions wore through within about 3 months, the ATA/TST unit would let the travel pack down.

So No, don’t buy them

The XTC and 8000 are both quite long/racey/perhaps harsher ride compared to most MTBs. On paper that sounds about right for mountain mayhem type events and red trails
So too would a similar full suss bike (a racey 100mm bike). eg a trek top fuel, specialized epic, giant anthem x.

It’s a lot more than whether it’s a hardtail or full suss. The fork travel is generally a decent indicator as to how well it will descend/ascend. There are (lots of) exceptions of course, but it generally applies to the mainstream manufacturers

Something like the giant trance X, trek fuel EX, specialized stumpjumper FSR, marin mount vision offer around 120/130mm travel, slacker angles and shorter cockpits. All better for the downhills, but impair the ups by comparison to the 100mm racey bikes

Though the mainstream manufactuers dont seem to make them, there are a number of hardtails with this sort of travel. Genesis Core/APtitude (not altitude), orange P7 (cotic soul, pipedream sirrus, on one inbred) will ride similarly to the 120mm full sussers, riding uphill a bit better.
Adjustable travel forks will to make the uphills a bit easier too

Beyond you start to get the even shorter cockpits/slacker angles/longer travel stuff, (like the black cove pictured above) where the climbs start to become a lot harder
The same goes for full suss bikes (though most tend to be more all-day-rideable than similar travel hardtails at the same travel)

Some seriously sweeping generalisations there, but it ought to help you out a bit instead of beiong told to go buy the biggest travel meanest/best bike downhill you can get your hands on. Which may have been appropriate, but you’ve already laid out what you want to use it for, and something like this is far from ideal.

I’d be looking at something with 100-130mm travel (HT or FS – its your call based on the generalised comparisons already here)
How ‘racey’ (generally a lot better uphill, faster on the smooth straighter stuff) you want it is upto you. You’re not really going to go too far wrong.

Personally I’d try to get something to do a bit of everything, like a genesis apitude:

120mm fork, high end steel (light) frame. Nice and fast, rideable all day, but capable when it needs to be

Else a 120/130mm full suss. Maybe not as quick (on the ups/across), but a more comfy (though you shouldn’t rly be sitting down on the rough downhills anyway), and a bit more capable when things get nasty

9″ of drop though I think in 20 increments. Unlike GDs 1″ or 4″
You’ll need about 10″ of exposed saddle though!
The vid says they’re going to do a 6″ drop one too

Looks good though. A proper range of saddle drop unlike the GD, Joplin or i900

“If you can live with 120mm travel then Trek Fuel EX fits the bill”
Yeh, but only the carbon one is available frame only (I think?) The ’08 was £1700 odd as well (I imagine the 2009 will be more

Your basically after a 4″ frame without the XC race angles then?

Commencal meta 4? 69.5 deg. head angle?
Commencal meta 4 geometry

Orange ST4 = 68 deg. HA – £1275 though

I think tose two are in some kind of head-to-head test in the nect issue of the magazine too.
I can’t think of anything else off the top of my head. (both ‘look’ quite similar)

“2.35 folding front single ply “

Just don’t get confused with the wire one – which is usually called the single ply one. (800-850g or so). The folding one is usually called single ply (from when I was looking for the folding ones anyhow)

Maxxis Tyre weights under 1kg here[/url]

Is that XM317s?
I’ve got a 2.35″ HR on an XC717 on the rear (XM719 on the front) at the moment. Probably a bit narrow for it. Only being running it at 35 – 45psi ish, though (nothing lower) and its been nice and stable so far (or I’ve just not noticed it).

“”Also the 2.25 on the rear as opposed to the 2.35”
James for your info I was talking about the advantage on the rear that i have been all link. “

I apologize, I didn’t read your post correctly then.
My 2.25″ Advantages come up much bigger than my 2.35″ high rollers, not sure I’d choose this forward tipping combo myself

“sReplace steeerer means a whole new crown/steerer/stanchion set-up, probably be just as much as a new set of forks”
Maybe, but maybe not
It could be well worth finding out surely? If th WC uppers cost a bomb, will the SL/team/race (alu.) uppers fit?

“i know some people complain about stanction coating coming off but it has not happened to me”
If you’ve not had them apart before, I think its internal coating wear thats the problem, so it wouldn’t be immeadiately obvious (where the grit is as the seals aren’t upto scratch)
That said, what difference do worn stantions actually make? Slightly more stiction?

“4lbs isn’t light tho for an XC race fork”
4 lbs isn’t light for a trail/light all mountain fork either!
My 130mm 2007 revelations are 3.8lbs. 2009 140mm fox floats are almost 3.5lbs

“Note that OEM forks (the ones that come on bikes) are often lower spec than the ones you buy, which is why LBSes often have what appear to be great deals on forks”
Thers some truth there, but you’re making things VERY confusing.
Theres OEM forks (that come on bikes and aftermarket) and OEM only forks (that come on bikes and the likes of CRC and merlin buy in bulk AS WELL as the normal aftermarket ones)
With rockshox they use a different number or lettering to denote the ‘spec level’ of a particular fork. If you go to their website they list fully the difference between the differing models (eg tora 289,302,318 recon 327,335,351,SL,XC .. rev 409, 426 ..)
Fox do the RL models of its forks as OEM only I think (the R,RLC,RC2 etc.. being avialable aftermarket as well)

“.. in 10 minutes, I’m out of breath ..”

“No. Came on my bike, absolutely rubbish. They might be ok for DH, but not for XC”
Now theres a sweeping statement. Which ones were they? What size? What compound? What sidewalls?
Theres at least 20 different ones!

“Arnt the 2.1s made of plastic? “
In a 70a apprantly. Theres also the 62a eXception compound in folding and UST versions. The 1.9/2.1″ ones are a high roller XC tread with lower cornering lugs/more spaced out tread. 2.35/2.5/2.7″ have bigger cornering tread/closer spaced tread

“great tyres but the 2.1″s are pretty small compared to a 2.35”
But the 2.35″s are still quite small. On a narrower rim is not much bigger than a 2.1″ kenda nevegal/blue groove o 2.1″ maxxis advantage. Even on a wider rim aren’t as big as 2.25″ maxxis advantage/ardent, or 2.35″ Kenda Nevegal/Blue Groove or Panaracer Rampage 2.35″. Though all are quite big

“If the 2.35 doesn’t come up too wide i may go for that on the rear aswell, the only thing that concerns me is weight “
The 60a folding (not single ply – thats wire) comes in arounf 646-695g (according to JustRidingAlong and maxxis), and I rate my mine. Suprisingly quick on the road too (At 35/45 psi) and nice and grippy elsewhere. I say get them

“It may be the OEM ones I had”
OEM maxxis tyres? With 80a compound or something? I’ve not heard of that before – though possible of course?

“Also the 2.25 on the rear as opposed to the 2.35”
There is no 2.25″ high roller. Maxxis do the advantage/ardent/crossmark in a 2.25″ which bizarely comes up the same volume as a 2.5″ in a high roller/minion/etc ..

external BBs come with spacers to allow to run 68mm shell, 73mm shell and/or with a bottom bracketed front mech or chain device (not both on a 73mm shell though)

“Does that mean the triple doesn’t?

Surely it’s just the chainring set-up that differs? “

Nope. The SLX bash has steel pedal thread inserts and a steel axle for extras strength/stiffness. The 36/22T rings are (softer than steel) aluminium. Weighs about 1kg

The SLX triple doesn’t have the steel axle or pedal threads. The middle ring is (hard wearing)steel/composite(to make lighter) too. All in is 889g

Merlin have a couple of 36/24T truvtiv HTII style cranksets that weigh AND cost less than the SLX bash crankset

I don’t think many people do. The brake levers are able to move up/down (so it can shift) as well as forward/back for braking. I don’t like it. Though I’m not used to it (only on mates bikes) I found it difficult not to tap the brake when shifting, and the floppy brake lever just didn’t feel right when trying to feather/drag the brake(s) in techy stuff

“Gravity Dropper. The original and best”

Apart from only letting you drop to 1″ and 4″ settings, and won’t drop as far as 5″. Which the Superstar/Pure Racing/KS i900 will, and let you choose anywhere from 0″ to 5″ drop

Read the review in the magazine. That’ll give you a better idea that a load of posts on here will

“Hi-rollers 2.3 (wire bead)”

Which ones? If they’re the dual-ply (I think they say downhill on the side) they’ll weigh something like 1100-1200g in a 2.35″. If one or both are 42a supertacky they’ll slow you down even more

The 2.35″ 60a Maxxpro Single ply(wire) ones come in about 850g

The 2.35″ 60a Maxxpro folding ones come in about 646-695g (JustridingAlong-Maxxis)

Also, what tubes are you running? Or are you not

Changing tyres/tubes (and running at med-high pressures (35/45psi or something) makes a lot of difference to rolling speed.

A £500 s/h XCish hardtail is likely to be easier/faster though. Not just the weight and faster rolling tyres, but the position/geometry is likely to be a bit longer/stretched out and steeper angles should climb better

“2007 forks were the last of the “reliable” Marzocchi’s. For some reason, when they moved production to Taiwan for the 08 season, product quality seemed to drop massively”

2007 XC700SLs (95-130mm) ATA’s were pants

I thought it was just anything with ATA (or maybe TST as well) were the problem forks. I thought the ETA ones were fine? Could well be wrong though

Really good. Quite a lot of the middly single track sections remind me off penmachno (not the same though)

Just south is Nant-y-arian which gets really rated. I believe theres a longer and a medium route there well worth doing (amongst others), so could do the cli-mach-X and the shorter of the two worthwhile loops at nant-y-arian one day (maybe day 2?) and the longer of the worthwhile nant-y-arian trails on the other