They don’t own the North sea gas, the UK does.

International law would disagree with you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_economic_zone

Gas, not oil, where are all the gas fields?

Would vote No
English
Don’t have a vote

Yes being those that like the principle and don’t want to think about how it might actually have to work.

You mean the SNP? :D

The No campaign’s real trump card is uncertainty. You can’t be sure what’ll happen if you vote Yes, so best play it safe and vote No

Isn’t it the Yes campaigns role to advise people how Scotlands future will pan out after a yes vote? If they do their job properly then there is no uncertainty, just a list of outcomes, options and explanation about how these will become reality. Wasn’t there a big white booklet which cost millions to produce and distribute which would dispel all of the uncertainty?

I just find the stuff coming from the Unionists a bit funny in all is splendid negativity.

Can the people of Scotland can benefit from a monetary union, Yes you can. Can the people of Scotland have a say in its running, Yes you can. Can the people of Scotland be in the EU, Yes you can. Can the people of Scotland continue to use the pound, Yes you can.

Bit more positive? And all things being promoted by the Yes campaign.

All you have to do is vote No

IMO running a marathon is primarily a psychological challenge you’re generally running at a conservative pace (I’m not talking about Elites, just joggers trying to get round). The main thing is that you will be running for a long time, and that’s a lot of time for doubts to enter your mind.

The things that kept me going were firstly I’d done hours of training that I didn’t want to waste, and also the fact that I knew I could get to 22miles because I’d done it a few times in training and once I’d reached that I wasn’t going to bail. You may be a great deal more mentally tough than me, but the fact that you are questioning your fitness already isn’t a positive sign, wait until you get to the headwind section at 18miles and your mind will be playing all sorts of tricks!

The EU has no historical precedent for dealing with Scottish independence.

For sure – I have no historical precedent for dealing with the wife finding me in bed with Cheryl Cole, but I’m fairly sure it won’t end well (the Cheryl bit withstanding obviously)

Which precedents?

Ireland, Russia, Netherlands, India etc….

Name one example where a minority left a union and became a ‘continuing state’

If only there were some ‘Yes’ friendly people in the European parliament that could ask the question, people who represented a member state but were members of a party who were pro independence, perhaps MEPs who were members of the SNP, if only there were two of those eh!

And all precedents and EU commentary would indicate that Scotland as a successor state would have to apply for membership, so surely the onus is on the Yes campaign to prove otherwise?

If it’s so easy why don’t the Yes campaign come up with a compelling argument that they will remain in the EU?

The Scottish government asked Westminster to approach the EU commission last year.

And the answer was, computer says no

Why won’t the UK government ask the question? ask Nicola Sturgeon, who believes the right time to negotiate is following a Yes vote?

One from a walk out the colours were awesome, shame the wife gets in the way in the background!

[/url]
IMG_5849-Edit – Small[/url] by Irelanst[/url], on Flickr

Bored, bored , bored;

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IMG_5862-Edit-Edit – Small[/url] by Irelanst[/url], on Flickr

Can anybody provide me a linky to anybody (who actually knows what they’re talking about, rather than SNP bluster) saying that Scotland would remain part of the EU, rather than having to rejoin?

No, because it isn’t going to happen, Scotland will be a successor state so will have to re-negotiate membership of EU, Nato etc. One of the things that keeps being brought up is that why doesn’t the whole of the UK get a vote, and that is exactly why, if only a small part gets a vote to leave (rather than a UK wide vote to dissolve the union) then the remainder is the continuing state and keeps the current treaties (EU, Nato memberships) and the successor starts from scratch. There is no precedent for Scotland to be anything other than a successor state.

I suppose the way I look at it is that independence isn’t the best solution, it’s the least worst solution. We’re going to have big problems for a while, but at least with independence we have some control over how they’re handled.

My own position is that I’m not technically able to vote; we have a croft in the Hebrides but currently my work has brought us to Holland. But I am feet firmly planted in the unionist camp (as if you needed any clarification). My wife is a ‘wee Scottish lassie’, her father is an SNP member who consulted on THMs favourite bedtime reading, the white paper. And although I’m Yorkshire born and bred, and love England dearly, I also love Scotland and would hate to see them separated.

I know a number of MSP’s through my FIL and have spent quite a few days on river banks and in boats with them (they get access to some awesome fishing) and in the most part they appear to be passionate and honest in their support for their country which I can understand and respect, I just hope they can ‘politician’ better than they can fish, but judging by the empty places in my fly boxes this winter they know a thing or two about saving money!

I spent some time in Scotland over Christmas and the referendum was discussed at great length wherever we went out (admittedly it was mainly SNP biased functions, so they were keen to discuss it with the “English Boy”), and some of the tired old arguments were wheeled out time and time again, all I really hope is that people vote with their eyes open with a view to the long game not just as a reaction to the current government.

Absolute worst case scenario, if the Yes vote comes, can the English still have some boats on Watten, I’d personally swap all the oil in the world for that!

Only when you don’t count oil revenues.

No, my figures included oil.

no-one seriously argues that Scotland will struggle financially with independence

No I think you’re right, I don’t think anyone would argue that it will be a struggle (in the context that pretty much everyone is struggling).

It’s a side issue – a few percentage points here and there don’t matter compared to the bigger issue of who government

If there is a Yes vote, I genuinely hope that is the case.

I know that, but the UK as a whole runs less of a deficit than Scotland. And you claimed that “Scotland pays more into the union than we get back” which demonstrably isn’t true, see if you don’t make sure your facts are accurate you can draw the wrong conclusion :wink:

England spends quite a bit per head too, you know. Scotland just spends more on health and less on policing, stuff like that.

And yes, it depends on how the oil revenues are divided up – with oil in the equation, Scottish tax take is higher, without oil the tax take is a bit lower than in England.

No, my claim doesn’t depend on anything. The facts are, Revenue: Scotland 10k (geographical share of oil) Spending: Scotland 12.3K. Whichever way you spin it, Scotland takes out more than it puts into the Union. Which is completely opposite to what you claim.

oh come on, that’s the revenue part of the equation, how about the spending? You know, the £12,300 per person that Scotland spends vs the UK spend 0f £11000.

The rest of the UK does not “support” Scotland – Scotland pays more into the union than we get back.

According to? GERS says different, HMRC say different.

When will CMD grow up,to be a statesman and negotiator?

I might be reading more into it that I should but I thought it was quite a pithy comment, I took it to mean what I said up there ^ and the later parts to mean vote yes and you’re on your own, vote no and you will have the safety net of the rest of the UK should it all go a bit Greek; you will have more devolved responsibilities but can no longer rely on the rest of the UK to support your policies.

He’s very, very good at saying the opposite of what people thinks he’s saying

I’m not sure, I understood “Giving the Scottish Parliament greater responsibility for raising more of the money it spends” to mean Scotland should offset a bit more of it’s deficit by controlling its spending, that’s pretty much what he’s said isn’t it?

Whereas,”we’re going to keep taking all the oil money, we’re going to give less of it back by getting rid of Barnett” means Scotland will raise exactly the same amount but rely on the Westminster to control, rather than subsidies it’s spending. As someone who’s responsible for the whole of the UK, not just Scotland, that seems fair enough doesn’t it?

I think that’s a pretty good example of confirmation bias!

There’s another effect to consider when reading the mainstream media about, well, anything – the Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect

Which would be worth taking into account when reading reports which contain simple factual inaccuracies wouldn’t it? Such as “the factual inaccuracies are things like a couple of programmes broadcast a day later than noted in the data, stuff like that.” Wouldn’t considering the Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect make you question whether any of the conclusions of the report were accurate if they couldn’t get the simple facts right?

The BBC is so badly biased towards the UK side we don’t watch it anymore. It is the British Broadcasting Service after all.

That proportional representation isn’t it :wink: , the BBC is representing the views of the 62 million people that haven’t voted for a referendum rather than the 1 million who did.

Pretty much as mentioned above. In manage rules you need a rule that contains;

Cell Value <> $B2
Applies to =$A2:$A2000

Excellent subject isolation on that image polarisandy, fast lenses are worth the money!

It’s not a perfect system, but it’s better than first past the post.

That may be the case, but that’s not what you claimed initially and I would argue that a system where a significant proportion of the electorate doesn’t fully understand the voting system isn’t the best form of democracy. And it is essentially a first past the post system with the majority of MPs elected in exactly the same way as the UK parliament. It certainly isn’t a PR system.

Our parliament will be totally elected by proportional representation.

Are you sure about that?

You’re not alone though;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Additional_Member_System#Voter_understanding

I have a WM-180 that I bought a while ago for doing a specific job. OK it’s not a Colchester (but then neither is a modern Colchester!), it needed a strip down clean from out of the box, the electronics are a bit messy and you want to bolt it down onto something solid (I used a marble slab). You have to be diligent with keeping tooling sharp and at the higher end of the recomended rake (tangential tool holders are much easier in this regard) and keep cuts light, but it’s been reliable and is capable of clean and accurate work. Oh, and don’t forget to allow as much again for tooling.

My experience is the delivery times quoted by Warco can be optimistic if the item isn’t in stock.

Some of the windows have blue lights, Caveat emptor.

No worries, it’s one of the things that grates on me a bit though, regardless of who initially said “no” to pre-negotiation both sides have agreed that it is the right thing to do before the signing of the Edinburgh agreement but the Yes campaign still try and use it as an example of Westminster bullying.

EDIT: I am confused as to why you think publishing a document from the UK government which states that they wont pre negotiate disproves my point that it is not AS fault but theirs. It supports my view that it is not his fault.

I’m more confused why you think Sturgeon would be writing a document for the UK government! Just to be 100% clear, “Scotland’s Future: from the Referendum to Independence and a Written Constitution” is a Scottish government document.

Junkyard: Indeed it is but it is not AS fault as it was UK who ruled out negotiations hence the vote is a leap in the dark.

Fixed your typos, including the “r” you mistakenly put before UK.

Maybe AS should have let Sturgeon know that he wanted to pre-negotiate, From “Scotland’s Future: from the Referendum to Independence and a Written Constitution”;

Following a vote for independence in 2014, agreements will be reached between the Scottish and UK Governments, in the spirit of the Agreement, setting the parameters for Scotland’s transition to independence.

My bold for emphasis :wink:

We’ve been to the Belladrum Tartan Heart fstival a few times and it’s always been good for the kids, with lots of crafty things to do. The camping field flooded the last time we were there but we were staying up the road with family. It’s near Inverness so depending where you are might be a long drive.

Daughter takes up most nights and weekends with homework, swimming, gymnastics, ice skating, horse riding, parties etc…. but I ride or run 5/6 times a week usually after she’s in bed. I play a bit of golf but not enough to get my handicap down and I also fish (all types) and tie fishing flies which my wife thinks is the nerdiest hobby in the world, and considering the people I meet at demos she may have a point.

You can do it with a lookup fudge;

=LOOKUP(9.99999999999999E+37,B2:B1000)

where B2:B1000 is your range, it works because the function is looking for the huge number which it won’t find, and so it returns the last number in your column

But it’s a crap idea.

We were talking over the options at Christmas and my brother-in-law thought it was the best idea on the table. His job does involve currency speculation and he fancies a beach house in Miami though!

The law is clearly defined should Scotland wish to stick to its guns, but there are lots of things that Scotland wants (and in the short term at least needs) according to the white paper that it isn’t strictly entitled to by law, it is in everyone’s best interests that any split is amicable, especially given that any dispute between Scotland and the UK would likely preclude Scottish membership of NATO and the EU.

There is nothing stopping Scotland using a portion of its territory as a bargaining tool to secure a share of other ‘assets’ or offset debts though.

Which is higher though in actual pound notes, 9.6% of 575 billion (tax receipts) or 9.3% of 720 billion (public spending)?

Given that Sven races MTB as well as ‘cross and hasn’t won the worlds or the world cup, I would say Schurter!