“just switched on 20 mins ago”

You got off lightly.

Bring on The Romeo Cleaners.

Harris is certainly doing a lot better than I expected, maybe that’s because the Vice President role is is largely ceremonial and requires the occupant to simply mouthpiece what the boss is saying, the job literally mean’s that you have to keep yoir opinions to yourself.

She has managed to change the public perception of her overnight with that acceptance speech, concise, energetic and humorous. She looks really, really confident and relishing the fight.

A week is indeed a long time in politics.

Empathy as ideology.

Thought the same too, why didn’t Norris give the place back early and then overtake? Also, why didn’t the team prioritise Norris as he,s the most likely to challenge for the drivers championship.

Then I remembered, Team Principles prioritise the constructors championship above anything else,  it’s on that result that their job depends..

It’s the public who care about the drivers championship, not really cariing who wins the constructors championship.

Though I’ll concede; all the above does not explain why Perez still has a seat at Red Bull…

TJ, (and other haters of the racist pensioners of Eastbourne)

You do realise that Badenock was the most popular candidate amongst the members but was prevented from being in the final two offered up to the membership via the initial selection process?

As usual, you’re not even wrong.

A lot of the lefties on here need to take a good look at themselves

Pesto

Steam cleaner works better and quicker than a hairdryer. I bought a kettle sized one from Lidl for about £17 for just this purpose as my freezer isn’t a frost few one.

The type of water does make a difference, where I grew up in the Thames Valley the extremely hard water (even filtered) would destroy the gaggia machine and left a harsh taste.

Where I live in Manchester the water is so soft that I can still see my reflection in the bottom of a ten year old kettle!

I used to work in a studio space with a coffee roasting company (Heart and Graft) and they reckon Tescos Aspen Spring still mineral water was the best. I tried it and it was definitely nicer.

‘Did I hear Southgate saying that we were missing Kalvin Philips at one point in his post-match interview?’

Yes you did. In which case (as has been suggested) play Mainoo or Wharton instead of TAA.  (Mainly is good at trying to make forward progress and Wharton is great with long passes).

Yesterday it was like the whole team formation had been jigged around to try and accommodate Foden in his favoured position. Rice ended up having the worst game I’ve ever sèen him have, Bellingham wilted in the shadows

The truth is that Foden has never really shone for England, he doesn’t have the connection with other players that he has at City and he doesn’t impose his personality on the team. It was if Rice and Bellingham were having to compensate for TAA  and Foden.

The TV pundits are no better with their Foden love in either. And what exactly have England been working on in training???

City are like a prescison instrument, like a Rolex. England are more like a Timex.

20 years ago, men and women divided equally in relation to their voting left or right. I saw some stats recently which looked at the US, UK, Germany and South Korea and currently the divide between the sexes averages out at around 20 points.

Younger men being attracted to reform could just be a reflection of this general trend. In order to counter that trend one would first have to ask what over the last 20 years has caused this divide?

Bowen did well when he came on, he replicates what Saka offers pretty well (plus he got 20 league goals this season playing as a striker, something Moyes deserves a bit of credit for). So the right wing looks pretty sorted.

I’d like to have seen Gordon down the left, even at the expense of (or at least coming on for) Foden. He’s have pinned the Serbs back a bit more with his pace and directness.

Bellingham is a boss, it’s all about him. He sets the tempo of the team and everything revolves around him. As great as Foden is, he looks like a spare part in the England set up. No doubt he’d do better if he was played in his best position but with Bellingham around that’s not going to happen so it’s one or the other I’m afraid.

Universities have become finishing schools for the middle classes. I graduated from Manchester Met in the early 90’s  , (It was a Polytechnic when I went in and a Uni when I left) and by the time I left you could already see the focus had shifted from being a place of learning to that of being a business.

I studied the most Mickey Mouse subject of all (Fine Art) and many of my compatriates and friends went on to work within the University system  as lecturers or otherwise. Looking back to when I went to college, many, if not most of the students were working class or at least lower middle class, people who these days couldn’t afford (or wouldn’t take on the financial burden) of going to University

Another thing that occurs to me is that students from previous generations used to live in ‘diggs’, some might have spent a term or a year in a hall of residence but then they were out and had to find a place to live, usually amongst diverse, mostly working class communities  learning a bit about how he other half lived and a little more about themselves to boot.

Now all the students live in extortionally expensive student specific accommodation and their only engagement with the unwashed masses is transactional. That interaction between University and local populations that had been so influential and creatively productive for generations has vanished.

As a consequence, working class talent doesn’t get the opportunities it once did and middle class students get a much more sheltered experience than they once did. Culture as a whole suffers. Going to University used to be about more than what you studied, it was much a journey of engaging with the world and of self development.

It seems to me that the University experience the days isn’t that much different from Sixth Form, all be it one with exorbitant accommodation (and tuition costs).

I’m trying to think of a public figure who is as out of touch with the press and public as Rishi Sunak. The comparison that comes to mind is when  Prince Edward met the press during his ‘It’s a Knockout fiasco (older forum members might remember).

Even Liz Truss would do a better job of campaigning and I can’t believe I just wrote that. I can’t imagine her making a cock up over the D-Day commemorations the way Sunak did. Conversley, she would exploited the photo opp for all it was worth, dropping in by parachute probably.

Watching a few documentaries about the Normandy landings it occured to me that the last week’s weather has been eerily similar to that of D-Day  exactly 80 years ago

“Because for any half-decent job nowadays employees now demand a degree level education before they’ll even give you an interview”

I think that’s begining to change binners. Wal-Mart (a huge employer) recently announced that a large number of roles that previously required applicants to have a degree are now open to any applicants. Other employers are begining to follow suit.

Employers are begining to realise that wider catchment and grade inflation have degraded the quality and value of degrees considerably.

Another aspect, particularly in non STEM subjects is that employers recruited applicants with a degree level education in the belief that they had developed critical thinking skills, skills that could be applied to different roles that may not be immediately relevant to the subject studied.

There is now a perception that the teaching of critical thinking has been replaced with the teaching of ‘critical consciousness’, (nnot teaching you how to think but rather what to think).

Consequently, a lot of graduates are entering the workforce thinking their role is to change the way the company (and society at large) operates, rather than actually fulfilling the job description and employers are begining to tire of it and would rather recruit A level students and train them up themselves.

“Only if the accusation is not justified I would have thought. Since one accepted definition is “a black person who is overeager to win the approval of whites” I think it describes Suella Braverman perfectly.”

But binners was talking about Kemi Badenoch.

You need to spend more time ‘thinking’ and less time typing.

Language like that is hardly likely to attract (or even retain) black voters to the Labour party. Though to be fair, judging by the make up of this forum there’s little chance of someone black actually reading those comments.

Anyhow, binners is just relieved that Starmer is facing Sunak at the next election rather than her, (at least thatt’s how I understand his consistent and hyperbolic vitriol against her.) He knows she would pose a much greater threat to Labour’s chances.

That and he’s got a few quid on Suella to win the Leadership.

“by going full Uncle Tom”

Not acceptable.

The two state solution is a comfort blanket that we have clung on to for a generation or more now.

I mentioned it earlier but surely a two state solution would lead to a similar situation that occurred with the creation of East and West Pakistan. It lasted for a bit until it became a three state solution.

It’s interesting to compare the creation of Israel with he creation of Pakistan,.Both created within a year of each other for a religious minority group as the British empire fell.

That’s not to say that the Palestinians shouldn’t have there own state, just that things wouldn’t work out the way the two state solution implies. It wouldn’t be a solution in itself, just a stepping stone towards another crisis in the making.

I watched that Novara Media video and I’ll summarise it for the TLDR crowd:

She interviewed hundreds of Palestinians in the West Bank and not a single one expressed even the slightest animosity towards Jews, they just want to live alongside them in peace and harmony.

By contrast, every Israeli Jew she interviewed expressed a desire to ethnically cleanse the region of Arabs by implementing a ‘final solution.’

I’m not paraphrasing, they were her words not mine.

Im not sure that posting clips like that is really helping the thread.

Don’t think that’s too controversial MoreCash, probably the way most informed people view it, a political miscalculation rather than a grand conspiracy theory.

Like Hamas, the current Israeli government opposes a two state solition and exploiting the differences between Fatah and Hamas suited their purpose.

And on the topic of a two state solution… In he unlikely event of it ever happening, how long would it be before a two state solution became a three state solution?  Much as happened with the partition of India that led to he creation of West Pakistan and East Pakistan, only for a civil war to break out that saw the breaking away of East Pakistan, forming of the  state of Bangladesh.

binners forgets the Labour isn’t working campaign by Saatchi, back in the day when they were prepared to pay professionals rather than interns to do their advertising.

“You come to some weird conclusions Inkster”

Not conclusions ernie, predictions. My crystal ball tells me that Laboir are about to get caught with their pants down and won’t end up with an overall majority come the Summer GE. We’ll just have to wait and see won’t we?

“You know that Labour don’t actually look for policy ideas on internet forums for middle-aged blokes?You know that Labour don’t actually look for policy ideas on internet forums for middle-aged blokes?”

Well let’s hope not!

I was lucky enough to have a ticket to yesterday’s match at OT. Never experienced an atmosphere like it.

Ok guys, we get it, Kemi Badenoch is racist and that’s the line Labour supporters are going to push if she becomes leader.

How do we think that’s going to work out eh?

Christ on a bike, you are literally gifting the Tories and the RW press an election strategy. If Labour go down this track then it will turn off a lot of black voters and actual racists will vote for her if only to spite the left,

“No serious candidate for the leadership is going to want to go anywhere near the poison chalice of being a short term PM overseeing a massive election defeat.”

This is the Tory part we’re talking about, I’m sure there’s many potential candidates that have their campaign teams set up and ready to go at a moment’s notice.

One candidate in particular comes to mind….

And to faustus’s point, I agree, even sections of the right wing press would find the prospect of another unelected PM sitting it out till Autumn untenable. However, if that unelected PM were to throw a snap election, that would be something the RW press could easily get behind, new start and all that.

Poison chalice or not, if a replacement PM can improve the numbers from where the polling is now then they would stay party leader post the election defeat. If they could win enough constituencies to deny Labour an overall majority then it would be seen as some sort of minor victory, similar to how Corbyn performed against Theresa May.

Labour need to realise it’s not a done deal yet. Labour party strategy tends to move at the pace of an oil tanker, the Tory party’s at the pace of an assassin.

“Why ?

Thete is zero need for any new leader to do so.   Nor any chance they will unless they get a big poll bounce”

Braverman could hang on because she has tied herself so resolutely to the long list of failing policies. She could also form a cabinet from the dregs of the right wing of the Party.

Badenoch doesn’t have the factional support that Braverman can call upon so would find it difficult to form a cabinet. By calling a snap election she could circumvent that problem. It would also give her the opportunity to ditch the failing policies and campaign with her own policy.

She has no powerful allies on the benches beside her, those she did have have long since been thrown under the bus and reversed back over, they all know they are for the chop if she wins the leadership. Badenoch is using her popularity with the membership to blackmail the party. She is the wild card candidate and will be able to present herself as such in a snap general election.

Use what ever metaphor you want but Penny Mourdant is a Trojan horse, a smokescreen, a red herring or a dead cat but it ain’t going to be her. If she gets foisted upon the membership then they will erupt and fracture the party once and for all.

Hope that answers your question tj!

There was a discussion on the Diane Abbott thread about wether something was a racist trope or not. I stayed out of it but some of the language and particularly the infantilization of Badenoch in some of the comments here could be construed by some (namely your political opponents) in a similar way.

It could be an own-goal in the making, as spectacular and ugly as the one at Stamford Bridge yesterday. Using the abuse one black female politician receives to attack another black female politician is not a good look.

That poll gets repeated endlessly ernie. All it basically tells us is which leader of the Tory party is preferred by those who won’t be voting Tory. Elections are decided in a few key constituencies by a small overall number of floating voters, something frank’s point alludes to.

So who do you think is going to be the next leader of the Conservative Party then Ernie? Most on here seem to think it’s going to be Mourdant, binners hopes it’s going to be Braverman. Me and the bookies think it’s going to be Badenoch.

“Well she certainly took her time in breaking with the official line from number ten. The continued ‘it was rude but not racist’ line was already looking untenable by the time she broke ranks”

I can’t believe you are so politically naive binners, It was entirely to her advantage to leave Sunak stewing for a while, whilst he sent out his minions to back his line. She used the situation as a power play rather than a virtue signal.

She may well be all the things that you an tj say she is, certainly too right wing for me (I want a Labour win with a usefull majority) but she won’t come out frothing at the mouth trying to out do Braverman however much you want her to.

My prediction is that She will lead the Tories into a snap election in the Summer and if Labour (and you binners) don’t have a strategy to deal with her that doesnt involve just throwing insults, Labour will see their lead shrink and might not get the workable majority that they are looking at right now.

I think we’re going to have a June election. Sunak will go after the Local elections. He won’t have to be pushed, he will walk as he hasn’t got the guts to face the electorate in a GE.

Whoever wins the leadership, they will have no choice but to call a snap election. Labour should be preparing for this.

Mourdant seems to be the preferred candidate amongst Labour voters at least! (Going by a twice shared poll on this thread and a few comments).

I think Badenoch, with her grammar school bossyness  will appeal to Tory’s Maggie fantasies more than Mourdant. It wouldn’t surprise me if Badenoch adopts a handbag as a prop, knowing that Penny won’t be allowed to take the sword out on tour with her.

The other day, binners commented that Badenoch was ‘clearly’ as awful as Braverman, it’s just that she hasn’t shown it yet.

Are we assuming that Braverman and Badenoch are going to fight it out to see who can be the most right wing? Or will Badenoch cede the right wing of the party to Braverman and adopt a more centrist position for herself? After all, she has already prepared the ground by throwing the ERG under the bus with the bonfire of the regulations Bill.

Interesting that its only the day after Sunak decides not to go for a May election that the Tory right have decided that Mourdant would be a better choice.

It’s not that you’re wrong ernie, your projection was entirely sensible, it’s just that the Tories haven’t got a clue what they are doing and are at this point begging for the electorate to put them out of their misery.

At this point, Mourdant may be more popular with the electorate at large but give her a few weeks at the helm and she’ll be exposed as Theresa May 2., other than sword carrying she has no discernable skills. There’s every chance that she’ll fare no better than Sunak would come an Autumn election.

As the tune goes….Things can only get worse.

I saw an episode of ‘the news agent’s the other day and wasn’t impressed. Just another Oxbridge get together like all the other political programmes, recycling tittle tattle that they’ve heard in the corridors of Westminster.

I thought they were wrong about almost everything. ‘savaging’ is about the only thing they can do.  We need journalists who know how to do journalism and aren’t consumed by their own self regard.

Any chance of a coup?

“Luckily, the governents Minister for Women and Equalities, Kemi Badenoch, is also a woman of colour so I’m sure she’ll be very vocal in the defence of Dianne Abbot and lead the way in the condemnation of Frank Hestor and advocate the money being returned, no?

She must have done so already, surely?”

From Twitter/ X

“Abbott and I disagree on a lot. But the idea of linking criticism of her, to being a black woman is appalling.”

“It’s never acceptable to conflate someone’s views with the colour of their skin.”

Seems like your wish is her command eh binners? She’s keeping the bag Though!

EDIT: Apparently it was her comments that pushed Sunak into finally calling it racist too. Just who is the real leader of the Conservative Party these days???

I kind of agree with you binners but I’m not sure if Sunak even cares at this point (or ever did). He has no more authority over his party than he does over the public at large. The party has gone feral.

If he stays Labour will get a majority.

If Braverman wins the leadership Labour will get an even bigger majority. (Binners, you’ll also win at the bookies so a win-win for you!)

If Poundshop Penny wins then the Tories could recover their position slightly but Badenoch will slaughter her in any debates so she’ll only win if the MP’s conspire to keep Badenoch off the final ballot.

Badenoch is the candidate Starmer would least like to face.