Northwind – Member
igrf – Member
that there is a force for good and evil is self evident

It really isn’t. Not sure where you’d even start if you wanted to argue that it is, tbh.

Right so mankind and evil bastards murdering each other wholesale in the name of whatever is not caused by some evil force then?

And Opposing that insert appropriate Mother Theresa style operation is not motivated by a force for good?

Every fibre of you, your body, cells, requires the action of positive and negatively opposed forces.

Call it electricity if you wish.

All actions are generally opposed by a reaction.

If there is good, then generally there is evil, one must assume in equal measure.

Self evident

As I said.

Junkyard – Member
As to wether there is a supreme being, or force, in my mind the jury is still out,

And Unicorns – I mean I have no proof of those but I can make up some outlandish stories riddled with innacuracies if it helps?
that there is a force for good and evil is self evident

Well I missed it so its not self evident – what sort of meter do I need to measure it or do I just take pictures?
Karma has always been a cool rule by which to conduct oneself.

Yes it is, but its no more real than be excellent to each other

This.

Is typical of the sort of closed minded view that is irritating, and coming from one who allegedly is paid to open the minds of the young, I do hope not to R.I.

TuckerUK – Member
…that there is a force for good and evil is self evident,
Not to me. Peer reviewed double blind tested court admissible evidence?

Well let me rephrase it as a force for positive and an opposing negative, it’s what makes the world turn rather than blathering on about proving it by having a good bash at Satanic, Voodoo, Black Witchcraft, or other ‘negative belief values’ of which there is a lot of largely unscientific, but nonetheless interesting anecdotal and some scientific evidence to corroborate.

Did I mention spiritualism yet? 😕

Cougar – Member
igrf > I may be misinterpreting you, but you seem to have confused “study” with “promote”. We learnt about the third reich in History at school, but no-one came along and tried to get us to sign up the East Lancashire Hitler Youth.

I don’t see any harm in studying Buddhism, or Islam, at an academic level; ie, R.E. It’s quite possible to teach R.E. in a secular manner, just swap “Jesus did this” with “Christians believe that Jesus did this” and we have a winner. The bonus of that is that multi-faith R.E. is a breeze, you can cover all the major religions then. Hell, and if any of the kids fancy buying into it, they can make an informed choice rather than default to the one they’ve been given by their parents.

No I don’t think you’ve mis interpreted me, there are so many threads within this thread, and what you say above is the way it should be, kids should have the door to theology opened by whatever means so they can find out for themselves.

It won’t take them long to spot creationism for what it is, or the flaws in all religions, but if they have half an enquiring mind, they’ll spot there is something going on and with a bit of further digging draw a conclusion by which to guide themselves.

What galls me, in our readiness to debunk Judaeo Christianity, the strong arm methods of other less tolerant or more ‘noisy’ groups dominate the agenda. Just plain Atheism isn’t the answer, and as I ventured further back in irony initially, a healthy dose of Agnosticism coupled to search for the truth can produce some intriguing answers some backed scientifically.

As to wether there is a supreme being, or force, in my mind the jury is still out, that there is a force for good and evil is self evident, that we come back here time and again also seems highly likely and Karma? Karma has always been a cool rule by which to conduct oneself.

Is my view.

Cougar – Member
Rebutting all the misconceptions on here would be immensely time consuming and probably futile.
It’d be quicker than me reading all those books, and I’ll wager a lot more interesting.

Tell you what, just pick one misconception, whichever you think is the most major one perhaps, and rebutt that. Shouldn’t take too long at all.

Rebutt Re incarnation proof experiments

Back to Buddhism for a tad, having had a quick reminder wiki, it was as I indicated an offshoot of the early Hindu teachings and again from a quick scope, one of the differences between one arm of Hinduism and the Buddist view of Karma is wether or not a supreme being influences Karma or not.

Either way yes I guess technically you could argue Budhists as Atheist to a degree, but they do have an alternate and complex value set not unlike Hinduism, derived from a Teacher who appears to be of a similar period or slightly pre dating Jesus Christ, who’s teachings could be argued have been construed differently by a largely more ignorant following and used to promote an entirely different Agenda than those that promoted the teachings of Buddha.

It was a long time ago I got into all this, (about the same time as the Beatles), but Karma does nobody any harm and the mysticism of the East is far more complex than the crude teachings of Abraham and Islam, so I tended to give it house room, plus the anecdotal proof of reincarnation in experiments lent a little more to the teachings in my mind back then, so the study of it all does no harm imv, better study Hinduism and Buddism than bloody Islam, but then the curriculum these days is so Political and those poor down trodden Muslims need appeasing, constantly.

Theology if that’s what this is, isn’t entirely bunk, if you mix in a little spiritualism and scientific experimentation..

aguesty1 – Member

She’s actually with another guy that she works with, she works away a couple of nights a week and works at the same office he works at when she is away. Claims nothing happened prior to us splitting which I see as a load of twiddle.

Yes that’s usually the way it goes, she was almost certainly involved with him whilst still with you, women rarely jump ship without an alternative in play. I’m still puzzled by her attitude to the dog, it leads me to guess the other guy is married and she can’t have him all to herself, anyway screw her she’s a bad un, you’re best out of it, move on, one day you’ll look back on this as a blessing.

Find someone else, I have to say I think I’d probably nick the dog, assuming you have the wherewithal to keep it somewhere, possession is probably 9 parts of the law and you can always say it’s yours, you bought it, or if you are really looking for vengeance there are lots of not very nice things you could do involving allegations of cruelty and the RSPCA, but personally I’d just grab the dog and set all that aside and if that’s not possible then get yourself a rescue dog, one to ride with.

miketually – Member

Buddhists are atheists but believe in something that happens after death.

Never done Buddhism (didn’t like Orange) but are you not forgetting that Buddah fella is he not a form of deity they believe in?

I also recall reading it was a branch of the Hindu faith anyway so hardly atheism in the way our post modern liberal pseudo intellectuals view the atheist belief.

*Re incarnation, multiple planes of enlightenment achieved through repeat visits, was the one that did it for me..

*Some convincing anecdotal and semi-scientific hypnotherapy experiments still have the door open on this one.

CaptainFlashheart – Member
Skis as art, anyone?

Nah only a board offers a decent canvass..

Rusty Spanner – Member
igrf – Seen any Chris Acheson?

No but hey, like the 2nd one.

Cool thread eh?

Worst bit of it all is that she won’t let me see my beloved boxer (like a child to me),

That is a bit OTT, she obviously has or had someone else in mind, I’m wondering if that didn’t work out either, or why would she be wanting to hurt you more if you’ve loved her and set her free? I think that is outrageous, separating a man from his dog, kids well whatever they can argue the point, but dogs are captive, have you considered a spot of dognapping?

They can be fun raced against one another, just looming around on your own pretty boring once you’ve dialled it.

So, the positives.

You’ll learn how to sail, watch the water to see where the wind is coming from and going to.
Have fun putting it together, working out the radio frequency you can operate on and steal other peoples device by changing it.
See how a sailboat works and how it has to be controlled, in your case remotely.
Marvel at the ingenuity of man and yourself once you master it.

The negatives

Lakes generally have trees round them that shield the wind causing big wind shadows into which the time will inevitably dawn that you’ll have to wade/swim into to retrieve your boat.
Kids will inevitably ‘want a go’ leading to the above
Wives don’t get it.

miketually – Member
even Atheists do believe this is it and it’s game over
Again, atheists all disbelieve the existence of any god. That is all. Being an atheist saying nothing about a person’s belief about what happens after death.

Surely the two are linked God’s caveat being do what I say or you’ll be in trouble when we meet, Atheist retorting that we can do what we like because there is no God therefore no-one to get us in the afterlife, in fact there is no afterlife. Could be wrong here but assumed the two went hand in hand.

So what do atheists think happens when it’s game over in this earthly plane?

Thanks hels

I like this. – Time Machine

molgrips – Member
What’s wrong with inventing your own religion? All varieties of Christianity were invented at some point.

This.

Pretty much what you have to do if you want to get through this thing sane..

You need something, some logic, to have worked out as close as you can from all the mumbo jumbo what you think it is all about and what happens after, I seriously think everyone deep down needs to have some form of belief even Atheists do believe this is it and it’s game over, very brave of them, or very bravado depending on your own viewpoint I guess.

Check this young womans work out she is a local artist who sails at our sailing club with her dad, an absolutely amazingly talented artist.

I absolutely adore work of near photographic quality produced by hand.

Love that Rockwell, love lots of paintings, if I had to pic a favorite artist it would have to be Dali..

Well nearly four months have passed and they’re due in today and surprise surprise quite a few folk liked the idea and wanted one, notably BMX types that view mountain and road bikes as the province of old men.

So, anyone here waiting for one they’ll be in Transition stores early next week and I look forward to seeing vids of Klunkermen beating up tubby Audidrivng full sussers at trail parks.. 😉

Well thanks to all of you for taking the time and courage to post, I must admit, I’m frankly quite staggered that so many of you have come to the point that you’ve contemplated it, let alone sharing that fact here, I am truly touched and don’t quite know how to respond.
I guess I don’t really have the balls to out my own inner thoughts on the subject, like a lot of my generation we keep a tight lid on those sort of thoughts and have the value set that we are geared to take whatever life throws at us and nothing should be so bad we would consider it, which of course is total bullshit and just the conditioning of the period.

All I would say to you really young ones, is that life will send you ups and downs and generally in equal measure, there’s a little ying yang sign which kind of means that I always felt (It doesn’t it’s some whole other mysticism about opposing life forces) anyway I’m blathering here now, what i mean to say is there is a way out if you look for it, usually at a total tangent. Think of down curves as a spiral you just have to break out of, by if necessary doing something dramatic, (other than topping yourself) if it’s a woman there are plenty more where they come from equally desperate to meet someone like you.

Ignoring the bullshit you read here on anti faith threads, you do really need to form a belief as to what it is all about and the best way to do that is study a few of the Eastern ideas (they’ve been around longer than us) personally i came up with a half assed theory between re-incarnation and the Force that would take far too long to explain and noone would believe anyway so pointless, it just serves me. My counsel to you would be look for something, your life does and should matter in the greater scheme of things so chucking it away is just a total waste and a set back, if you do believe in the ongoing soul thing – whatever, it has helped me. I’ve made and lost several small fortunes, lost a wife, father, son, mother in that order, experienced death first hand and a hint of an afterlife which re-enforced my theory and have experienced that zone, the place you achieve at the very peak of sport performance when things happen you just cannot explain why, you just knew they were going to occur before they did. The spiritual side of it, again pointless to explain to anyone other than others who have experienced it. My point, life is a great gift and there is so much to grasp outside of working for the man and taking hold of it is in your gift.

There, enough of this, I’ve said more than I should, this is a very deep thread, I hope there is something contained within for all of us, thank you all once again.

It has been hammered over, but has the Agnostic view ever been fundamentally hammered home as I’m trying to do, sorry if that last post came over ranty it wasn’t intended to, but I’m just trying to illustrate that to some the Atheist view is equally as boring as that of God Botherers.

It’s Jews by the way that insist on circumcision not Christians.

I still see this as a well humoured discussion hence joining albeit late in the thread.

TuckerUK – Member
Just had a skim, and someone posted (along the lines of ) ‘Religion, give it a try, what’s to lose?’

Well a fair bit actually. I don’t support homophobia, child genital mutilation, the suppression of females, I didn’t think much of Hitler, I don’t agree with that bloke who’s top banana of that Christian church banning contraception so leading to millions dying of AIDS…and all of these I’d be supporting if I joined up.

I’ll quote Steven Weinberg “With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil—that takes religion.”

Well I don’t support a lot of that either, nor do I support popular atheist politically correct views, the promotion of ‘do whatever thou wilt being the whole of the law’ to quote a popular satanist view from the thirties and forties, nor do I support the active promotion of homosexuality as a lifestyle choice, or free sex for everyone in the classroom a la female teacher sacked just recently, each to our own, but it ducks the point I’m making, which is being an Atheist is just as bad as being a God botherer to those of us who really could give a **** about what you are or think and just want to get on with our lives without having any of it thrust down our throats, or our kids bought up to some artificially made up set of values to suit current trends and fads.
The Christian Religion for all it’s faults tells a fairy tale like Father Christmas to kids to give a reasonable set of guidelines by which to conduct yourself, which as soon as you’re old enough you can choose as most of us do, to totally ignore.
Islam on the other hand is a far more dangerous outfit and should be fought, not taught at every turn (my opinion sorry you won’t change it by arguing with me).
Atheism is total bollox and achieves nothing, so is no more than pointless posturing on behalf of pseuds, who gives a **** if you don’t believe anything, we don’t care what you think.

Agnosticism as I said is what we all are simply because we don’t know, no-one knows how can they we don’t really even know what gravity really is or how electricity is generated by magnetism, what force gives that power exactly?

All are beliefs to a degree, but only the latter has any logic to get you through all this, so wait and see, sooner or later we’re all going to find out, or not.

Buddism by the way is a branch of the Hindu religion which if you had to pick one would probably be my choice being as all encompassing as it is and accepting.

joolsburger – Member
Hmm maybe I should go and look it up, but my belief was that Atheist believe definitely that there is no God.
So Atheism is a belief system in which they can conduct their lives with out fear of heavenly retribution.

Atheism is not a belief system.

Well if it’s not a belief system why do they have a church? (see a couple of posts back)

Yep, I was right, you Atheists have clubs, organisations forums, my you even have your very own church sorry dudes you’re every bit as nutty as the theist fruitcakes..

Agnosticism – it’s the only truth and the light.

joolsburger – Member
Seems obvious but worth noting that being an atheist isn’t a belief system it’s just a very specific single thing

Hmm maybe I should go and look it up, but my belief was that Atheist believe definitely that there is no God.

So Atheism is a belief system in which they can conduct their lives with out fear of heavenly retribution.

So much is true here I cannot begin to précis it all, but it is true that we all need belief in a better tomorrow and frankly that just is not present and we all know who is to blame.

So as I said earlier in jest but also logic does dictate that rather than take your own life it would seem more reasonable to take the lives of those who have bequeathed such unhappiness to so many.

So I do tend to agree with rudebwoy, we do need a bloody revolution and soon.

I proved the existence of Father Christmas to the then igrfjnrs, had them believing for a long while, just as I bought them up as good Catholic girls in a faith school that I fell over myself trying to get them into Agnostic Hypocrite that I am.

“Junkyard do you believe there is not a God?”
Junkyard: “Yes”

“NotJunkyard do you believe there is a God?”
NotJunkyard: “Yes”

Can either of you prove your belief?

Both: No

So you’re both Agnostics,

Welcome to our world Junkyard, we’ll be sending you a pack in due course and will expect you to go door to door preferably accompanied by a small child which you should at no time molest or discuss sexual matters with and concentrate on telling everyone they ‘don’t know’ and so are Agnostics and help us spread the word.
One day we will expect you to demonstrate your total belief by wearing a nice vest which will explode you to new levels of Agnostic none knowledge whilst converting others simultaneously.

(typed earlier posted a bit later)

Well the logic that follows that surely, better to end their lives than your own?

Suicide by Political assassination and subsequent popular adulation..

edit this was meant to follow the call me dave and red ed post..

But why is it more hopeless now than it was say in the sixties, seventies and eighties?

What about the depression of the late twenties and early thirties, anyone know what the suicide rate was then?

miketually – Member
How many times do you religion debatists need it explaining to you, what you all are, like it or not.
You are, like me and everyone else, an Agnostic, since neither Atheism or Religious faith can be proven so the default is obvious.
The world is Agnostic if only it would admit it and become a better place.

Not true. One stance is belief in something with out proof, the other is not. And believers are also atheists, apart from one god.

They could both not be true, both stances are the same, neither has proof which kind of makes my point, they do not know, absolutely, even if they ‘believe’ there is or isn’t a deity. They are Agnostic they just don’t believe it, is all.

*A self proclaimed Atheist is just as stupid as a Religious Nutjob, in fact they are both nut jobs.

*First rule of Agnostic fundamentalism 😉

How many times do you religion debatists need it explaining to you, what you all are, like it or not.
You are, like me and everyone else, an Agnostic, since neither Atheism or Religious faith can be proven so the default is obvious.

The world is Agnostic if only it would admit it and become a better place.

[/thread]

Our local dobbies (tesco garden centre) sells these little round logs, billed as green and burn hotter, they light relatively easy and are a lot cleaner to carry about than coal. They burn a lot hotter than most logs you get, and wood from different tyoes of tree all burn to varying degrees, I forget which is best Ash as I recall works well as does oak which burns slower and some conifers burn well with a pleasant smell, but if I were travelling which it sounds like you are, I’d take a £4.99 bag of these dobbie wood fuel composite things for wood burring stoves..

Coal does still burn hottest but takes a bit to get going.

Anthracite burns hotter still.

Jesus flange..

Change your life, there are lots of options, **** off overseas, go to Africa/India/Insert other appropriate region where you could help and also make a difference. Take up another activity, buy a kayak, go SUPing, take to the mountains and work as a barman, join the army, become crew on a yacht delivery team, lots of things life could offer a young person.

No money? Rob a bloody bank, ffs even ending up in jail must be better than ending it all.. Isn’t it?

Maybe I have the wrong end of the stick here, life is for living or we wouldn’t be here in the first place..

It is a sad fact about women, having equalised their relationship with men, they do expect some of the former attributes men used to possess. They still seek and expect albeit in some cases subliminally, power, strength and physical support, as indeed evolution provided, they of course deny it, but then half the time they really do not know their own minds or what makes themselves tick so are subsequently extremely unreliable in times of stress for the sort of support a guy might find useful if at a terminal edge.

Very profound all that and no answers to be found there as to why it appears a lot more men are cashing in their chips, I guess we all think about it as a way out at times and in truth it can appear to solve a lot of problems like just running away.

Like a lot of folks who chase physical adrenaline filled highs, I guess I also get equal black lows in the same measure, but living the kind of lifestyle I’ve managed to create for myself, I’ve always felt there’s always one more ride to live for, so when some young guy living a similar life still goes and tops himself it is an especial shock.

It happened once before, a young waverider guy called Angus Chater some windsurfers here might remember him, he experienced a three or four wave hold down and drowned. He then experienced the whole light at the end of the tunnel euphoria which comes in death and death recovery situations, as he was brought round after six or seven minutes gone. So the next hurdle life presented him and I believe that was also female created he just simply went back to where he knew everything felt so much better, that could be argued as understandable.

But when someone so young at 20-22 with none of lifes real experiences and everything still to live for gives up and chucks in the towel, that is very difficult to understand and leads to the questions about the pressures, morals, and pastoral care that is or is not available to the young today.

It doesn’t get discussed, there’s a reluctance to even talk about it, so there aint much help about to folk contemplating it either, have the young even heard of the Samaritans? Then next offer is ‘mental health counselling’ which is another pariah subject. Potential suicides are not necessarily mentally ill they’re desperate for any number of issues.

I hadn’t realised however just how many youngsters are affected, it almost never occurred in my youth, can only think of one guy I know/knew, a fellow journalist, but he always was a tad on the edge of reason, wanted to know the answer, the one religion could never really give.

Jamie – Member
Probably an innocent mistake, but it’s spelt Windows.

Only on STW 😕

I’ve chased the Holy Grail all my adult life, back from the days when I’d electric shave in the car late on the way to work.

The Best I found sadly is no more, funnily enough I was eyeing it this very morning as my most expensive razor money could buy at the time, a Phillips all singing dancing rotary thing was busy boring the hair from my face.

It was a Panasonic, a veritable brute of an electric razor so powerful it eventually shaved itself to pieces and then began to draw blood, which it still does on the odd occasion I fire it back up just to feel the sensation of a chain saw against weekend three day growth.

I shall upon my return home look up the relevant model numbers, but in the meanwhile look forward with eager interest to other recommendations (purlease not Braun next doors pussy has more lick) 😉

Do what lots of windoze nerds do and boot camp then load windoze and use it as a PC, or run parallels and operate both.

I wonder what happens if you load it with windoze8, will it play nursery rhymes?

bravohotel8er – Member
Because the government would introduce 15 layers of inept management, halve the fleet and double the cost.

This.

Nope, my worse moment of sport was head butting the promenade wall hooked up to a 12 sqmtr traction kite, this, this is just like everything else these days, an overblown meejia fest. Not that I give a flying **** about Roadies or their pathetic racing, but it strikes me the dude just did what everyone else was doing in the period only he did it better and won. He still had to pump those pedals and I don’t suppose for one moment those ‘drugs’ did much more than benefit his arse by maybe 5%, who even cares, all it’s done for me is ruin a bit of Dodgeball the Movie…

Is road biking even regarded as sport?