It was a pretty terrible post by me, I’m sat in the dark in the garden drinking Black Sheep 🙂

Agree on 22% GP, it’s still not shabby when you think how much they sell is promotion driven.

Also, the £30m of shareholders funds: it’s hardly a weak balance sheet. I had no idea they were that big.

Wiggle have been unbelievably successful, it hard to see how anybody can catch them really.

As of end of the last period, they have got distributable reserves of £31m, a wage bill (including directors) of £14m, and they are making 40% gross profit on £180m. Staggering, really.

I couldn’t tell you how much tax the 2 companies are paying, but given the nature of their ownership, it’s a LOT less than it should be

You don’t know how much they are paying, but you know it’s less than it should be. How does that work?

You can upgrade RAM on the 27″, but not the 24″

Since El Capitan, I reckon you need a solid state drive (unless you love beach balls)… I’d take that over capacity every second of every day.

I should learn to explain myself better 🙂

There absolutely is value, if the restaurant can’t make money the lease is obviously immediately less attractive.

You missed a few words off your paste which totally change what I was saying…

I’m not saying there’s not value in seeing the numbers, I’m saying that I wouldn’t pay a premium to take over a lease, or be granted a lease, above the value of a property. I think any goodwill in the business, especially in a family-run restaurant, is very fragile and I wouldn’t pay for it.

Quite a few posts about getting sight of the current full financial performance of the business; not sure if those posters are inferring there is a value or charge expected in the lease (premium on grant/assignment as garage-dweller notes).

Personally, I would suggest any goodwill in that business quickly drops (and eventually disappears) from the moment that the two owners walk away, assuming they were visible operating the restaurant – despite her running it for them. I’d only want to pay a lease based on the market value for the property, a fair price for the stock you actually want and a fair price for the fixtures and fittings, allowing for the condition and age of them (again, assuming you want them). They’ll almost certainly get no better offer than that elsewhere.

You’re their golden ticket out of there, an easy move for them, and I think the only advantage to you taking on a lease there over starting a fresh business elsewhere, is the owners might grant you an early break clause, come to some agreement on the fixtures and fittings to help you start out and probably won’t ask you for a personal guarantee to guarantee them the full amount of the lease for the full term granted (any other landlord almost certainly would).

It’s a cosy transaction that works for both of you, but I definitely wouldn’t put any value in the goodwill.

Good friends of mine did this, and were forever in the shadow of the mildly charismatic but omnipresent previous owners, and their customers constantly compared. They kept it going for 8 non-profitable years before getting out and opening a dining pub – they’ve never looked back. It’s since been three different restaurants in the last 5 years…

Disregard my post, Christ, I can’t even spell tenant…

As above, leases are always drafted in the landlords favour, and so you need to get somebody who will look after your interests, as you’ve already done. The solicitor will spot a lot more than you and so it’s almost pointless you, or anybody else commenting on it, until you have their professional comments, then dive right in 😉

As already stated, the things to look for are numerous, and include (but not limited to) delepedations, contractual responsibilities for equipment maintenance, repairs/renewals, re-instatement obligations at the end of the lease, rent renewal conditions, whether you have security of tenure, whether there are restrictions on operating times should you want to change… Absolutely get a Schedule of Condition and support it with lots of photos and even videos.

The list goes on and none of this is stuff you need to point out to a solicitor, they’ll give you a full breakdown of what they think is unfair, onerous or an obligation which might be ill-advised, and then they’ll push back on your request to reach agreement for you.

I’d be pushing really hard for a tennant only break clause at 24 months in case the commercial side of running it is too much; it would would be pretty generous of the landlord to agree had she not worked hard there the past 10 years… It’s up to you what break you’re comfortable with and the solicitors job to argue for you.

I don’t know how old you are but I would also want security of tenure and wouldn’t agree to opt of out the Landlord and Tennant Act; if it’s flying after 10 years and they want to retake the lease, how would you feel about it? Opting out gives you very little protection, but they might want you to.

Good luck!

I’ve got wooden floors and two boys under six. I’d sell all my bikes before I sold my Dyson handheld…

Even that shouldn’t be a fail, Daffy, unless they are really blue.

The test instructs that for a tinted light, it needs to be ‘substantially white’; whatever that means is at the interpretation of the tester. If they are unsure, they should pass and advise.

Whether they are 80%, 100% or 130% is irrelevant to a test. The test looks for things like alignment as suggested, and brightness only comes into it if one is brighter than the other.

There is no instrument allowed in an MOT test that will identify time brightness versus OE fit, the tester you had is either new or on the up-sell. There is no <60w stipulation for an MOT AFAIK

As far as fixing alignment during a test, the tester can’t. Once a test is started it has to be completed, it can’t be ‘paused’ to carry out remedial work.

I think it’s simpler than that (not sure the shared inbox link is right, this isn’t a shared inbox if I understand the OP, just a second mailbox account).

I don’t think it’s possible from within the desktop program: you could set up rules within there for replies specific to a ‘sent to’ address, but they would only work if Auto replies were on, which is global for all mailboxes within the profile I think (pretty sure).

However, if you log in to each mailbox at outlook.office.com then you could set auto replies for each mailbox there, setting them on or off individually.

Why do people do PAT testing? What purpose does it perform that visual examination and maintenance (when/if required) doesn’t do.

It’s a pretty lucrative income for the testers, and I don’t know why it’s done?

You aren’t comparing like with like, a Golf GTI isn’t a family car. You need to go back to the drawing board and work out what you want from a family vehicle and a budget.

I realise that, I wasn’t suggesting I’m buying a California or a GTI, I was just trying to illustrate relative value. My 1-series was £35k and although it’s got a nice engine it’s a pretty budget car from a build perspective: compared to that you get a lot more in a California and maybe £60k isn’t that bad compared to it…

@br. I’m 41, so have C1 entitlement. Hard to argue with nearly every point you’ve made in the thread, but after a couple of days to think about the pro/cons, I just don’t think I want a bigger van and I need to decide on what compromise I prefer.

I’m definitely still leaning towards a new California/Beach/T6 conversion with an awning and an emergency toilet inside the awning to save the kid’s 3am poo dash across a campsite in the rain.

My local dealer has the Tribute 669 in stock, so off to see that this weekend, as pointed out much earlier in the thread.

http://www.tributemotorhomes.co.uk/motorhomes/tribute-669

No question it’ll still be cramped if we’re forced to stay inside the van because of weather, but it’s a lot of van for the money if we can make it work.

@wwaswas I reckon it’s about right. We looked at a one year old Buerstner that was £62k new, but retailing on a retailer’s site at £48k used on a 15 plate and 9k miles; I guess trade on that would have been somewhere between £43 and £45k, so nearly £20k drop. I do think depreciation from there on in will be very low, but I’m most likely to want to get out of it in the first year or so if we just don’t get the use out of it.

@5lab We got 39.8mpg on the California up to Pitlochery and back, cruise set at 60 or 65mph, not much traffic apart from around Edinburgh.

We run LWB Ducato 130 or 140bhp at work, and no matter how carefully it gets driven it’s never bettered 26 to 28mph when loaded with a 400kg load. Add on a proper conversion like the Hobby T765 I mentioned, and I reckon with the added drag and weight you’d be very lucky to see 25mpg, and more likely much less.

@Neb Again, the £60k thing isn’t me moaning about the size or facilities, but the choice of some of the materials, layout, features and build: the seats mark really easily, the internal table should extend, the windows were delaminating, the rearmost bench should lift from both ends so you can access the contents from inside the van, the diesel heater isn’t routed in a way to get any of the air to the top bunk of the van, the diesel heater vents into the drive away awning (if you ran it all night, any drive away awning would smell terrible I imagine), the sat nav is hopeless, the catches on the doors under the sink kept popping off, did I mention the seats mark more easily than any other material in any car I’ve ever had and so on.

I sound like a right fanny, totally aware of that, but before taking it away I’d been unable to find anything really negative about the build quality of the ‘factory’ conversion in any of the forums I’d beeen on, but I was disappointed given the cost.

Maybe I just need to reset my expectations, though: I think I do. A Golf GTI is £30k, a decent 3 series tourer is £40k and so on. I think I just need to try it again with different expectations, and a drive away awning (or buy that Tribute, which looks perfect for us, and a small cheap car as a daily driver).

@mitsumonkey
That Tribute looks like a really good compromise: I’ll have a proper look at that later.

The £60k ‘thing’ was more about that, for the money, I thought some of the material choices and durability were poorly thought out, as per the earlier posts. It’s not an expensive van to buy though given the way they hold their values. A £60k Buerstner or Hobby would drop £20k in the first year (ish) where a Cali doesn’t.

The other thing about the bigger vehicles is the mpg and storage. Will I feel less inclined to jump in it and bugger off if it’s not only drive and I only get 20mpg. I suspect the answer will be yes.

Again, that Tribute might be a great middle ground for us, I’ll have a properly look at it after work.

Accept what you’re saying about the midges, b r. I was thinking we’d find spots away from trees and water (higher spots, I suppose).

Christ on a bike. Who’s idea of cool is that (one can only hope not Wiggo).

Some nice vans on the site though, will look properly later. Thanks.

I almost certainly will, but a big part of the appeal is going to work on a Friday morning with the van packed and heading straight off when the wife and kids get to work. I’m just not sure I could make that work with a van kept off site.

I certainly couldn’t get a van like yours parked at work, which would mean leaving work to go and get the van, swap the contents and so on by which point it would probably be 6.30. In a smaller van I’d be in the Borders by 7pm setting up the bbq.

I realise I’ve come full circle here from some of the posts about the size, but I honestly think I’ve been thinking about it all wrong (comments about the Ocean spec/build still stand).

🙂
Pretty much David, the pictures in the brochure prove I was obviously missing the point. I just need to be educated.

Edit: sorry, less flippantly, I have had a good read of alternative opinions and thoughts about other vans and respective merit, value, convenience, resale value and so on and think maybe the best compromise is a lesser specced California and a side awning (and better preparation). At least I think it’s worth another go before dismissing.

Unusual for STW to be such a dichotomy of opinions 🙂

Thanks for posting the picture of that 3 seat bench, Scuttler. Apparently, you have to spec it if you want the black upholstery, bit odd. It has a big advantage of an extra seat when picking up the boys and their friends too.

Has anybody confirmed that the diesel heater exhaust vents into the awning, or if it can be re-routed/bodged? Lastly, has anybody specked the anti-roll bars to stiffen it up a bit (£240 option) – tempted with that.

Thanks again all, the thread’s been a big help.

The downside for me Stve, is that I’d need to store something of that size away from home. If my drive was big enough, I’d find it harder to resist.

Are the smaller roads up in the Highlands or Lakes not off limits in something like this, I presume so? Have you never got stuck, or do you stick to more developed places to visit? Do the little things parking it when you’re out and about, visiting new villages/towns for example not become really tricky?

It’s hard to argue with that br, but as the day has gone on I’m back to thinking I want to replace the car with a van, so I’m ruling out a motor home. I also want to use it most weekends, so occasional hire wouldn’t work for us (I don’t think this is what you were suggesting.

A 150 DSG Beach with the bits I’d want it is coming out at £48k, and all it’s missing is a hob, fridge and some storage.

The only other downside I can see is the exhaust for the diesel heater seems to vent into the awning space. That seems mental if true, can the exhaust be re-routed without causing further issue?

Also, does anybody know if the reclining three seat rear bench (no cost option) still turn into a bed, or is that an extra row of seats or bed deletion? The salesman wasn’t sure…

KingofBiscuits
It’s things like this: Although there’s still a requirement to remove the car seat and iso fix base once we arrive as part of setting up. that we hadn’t really factored on storing once we arrived.

I went to have a look at a Hobby 765HFE this morning. £60k, seems like a decent build and ticks every box. The massive downside, is that if we decide it’s not for us after 12 months or if we think we need a different layout then the loss will be about £20k in the first year. I just can’t afford that risk, and it’s not there with a Cali.

I really wish I’d posted this thread before we went away because I’d have bought an awning and emergency toilet to take, knowing that I’d need them both to make the van work for four people and young children. With it, I might have had a whole different experience. I think the disappointment came from many threads (not just STW) saying the van is fine for four people for a couple of nights away without an awning – I just completely disagree.

I’m going to have look at LWB conversions too, but after reading all the replies I’m back thinking maybe I could make a Beach (or SE/Ocean) work for me (with dark upholstery and dark carpets) if we give it more thought and pitch an awning. I still think it’s a disappointment in build, attention and material choices for the money, but when you take the retained value into account you could argue it’s a relatively cheap car/van for it’s purpose.

I’ve got a daft little 135i at the moment which I drive like a knacker, and I thought I’d hate pottering everywhere at 60mph, but the truth is I didn’t really enjoy getting back in the car today. I think I might be finally ready to grow up.

@Dragon
A car and a tent would work, but I like the idea of all of us being asleep in the van and everything else (bbq, hob, food, tables and chairs and so on) being outside the van in the awning. Plus, in an emergency of no suitable spots and very bad weather on arrival, we could all sleep in the van and live in it for 24 hours if we really, really had to.

The kids will only like it their mum hasn’t killed me in the middle of the night after listening to me behave like a 14 year old with every inconvenience… So another hire, probably a Beach, and we’ll buy an awning before hand…

I did, Mike, thanks. I don’t really have the time or skill to really get stuck into it like that, but I’ll be speaking to a couple of coach builders about potential layout.

I agree, Matt. The thing is though, after thinking that an awning is needed for cooking and breakout/seating areas for family use, a topper to keep the raised roof waterproof and so on, I might as well just stick with a car a buy a bigger tent.

The thread turned into how we could make that size van for us, which is great and I’ve enjoyed reading every post, the OP was more about how disappointed I was with the build, layout and quality of materials for the money.

Was looking at this last night before I fell asleep. Great seating, beds, full size internal garage, space to sit and cook if it’s raining, toilet, shower and so on for the same price. It’ll probably be lucky to break 25mpg, and I’d need a small car for daily duties, but it looks like much better value to me. https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/172237872220

FunkyDunc, we’ve talked about that a lot. There are lots of places I want to go and explore, Norway and Scandanavia, Europe and so on. I just want to jump in something with the family and travel wherever we want or don’t want, no timetable.

I could hire a van for the same purposes, but the idea of heading out on a Friday at 5 for a couple of hours drive to escape urban life, returning on a Sunday night after nearly of walking or biking really appeals. In my mind, we’d be using it every other weekend, I accept reality could be different. It would also replace my car and when you put them both together spending £60k on something that would still have an unbelievable strong residual in 10 years more or less makes sense. The actual cost of ownership is pretty low.

Twodogs: maybe it’s the extra people, where did you prep? I had two boys trying to build Lego (I know) on the table, so I was chopping and prepping on my knee. Trying to get anything out of the cupboards under the table once I started was very awkward. Again, I should have thought about this before we travelled but until you try something it’s hard to know whether the limitations you’re expecting are mildly compromising or debilitating. No mattress topper would be fine for the odd night, but more than one night back to back is more uncomfortable than I’d want it to be. It’s fine with a topper, just don’t understand why it’s now an extra…

Spooky: I was thinking more travel with the loo in the roof box, but get it out when you set up camp. On quite a few forums, people travel with it under the cutlery draw in the kitchen cupboard. Maybe I’m precious, but I think that’s pretty grim.

See, I thought a shovel was adequate, but last night at 3am in the rain, if the little fella had told me he wanted a poo and we were wild camping I’d be questioning my choice. Side awning off a Beach though, and a chemical toilet kept in a roof box for emergencies might do it.

Let me know how you get on, Juan. I think with three people you might get away with it. Plan on having yours and especially your child’s night sleep wear ready in the pull down storage above the rear seats ahead of travelling (and using the top bed to get the 4 year old ready). That, and spending £30 upwards on a gas BBQ to cook under the wind-out awning (if it has one), will solve half the problems.

The top bed is pretty cold even with the heater running, I reckon you’ll want a two season, rather than one season, bag. In case you’re thinking about it, we were, I wouldn’t put a 4 year old up there at this time of year with a quilt rather than bag, because it’ll be freezing when they kick it off.

I still think on hindsight, similar to Squealer and Scuttler, I’d be as happy with Beach and an awning without bitching about value for money. Suspect happier still with a LWB.

That could be the point, Matt: our two boys had an awesome time and want to buy the Cali.

If the hassle of using a Cali didn’t kill me, they’d have some brilliant memories!

Thanks all.

Alpin, plenty food for thought, there. Suspect I need to really buy a van a live with it to really understand what I want/need.

Maybe I get a Beach and awning to figure out what I want from a LWB, or get a proper motorhome and keep a car too. Plenty to think about including, crucially, whether I ever want to go back on a campsite. If the answer is no then I need a toilet and shower on board for a few days away.

Again though, The acalifornia looks good on the drive. Really good.

Bothered my wife a lot more than me, Ian. I was aware of it on the 50 times we stopped for the kids to have a wee on the journey, but not enough that would stop my buying one.

Agreed TJ, I suppose this the start of a process that I really wanted to be the end of one. Again, blissful ignorance or naivety on my part. I was hoping to swap the car for a camper, realise I’ll need both now.

I can see that Paul.

Funnily enough Alpin, a mate with an 8Ball LWB is telling me he’s coming over this week to show me the error of the Cali’s way… I’ll have bought something deeply uncool (but bloody comfortable) before then. 🙂

They are definitely a campsite van… I hadn’t really been on one for ages and although I was really impressed with the site (Blair Castle up in Pitlochry), I really found being surrounded by so many other people pretty claustrophobic.

Again, I realise this might be bleeding obvious to those who are experienced with sites, but for us it was a reminder that I want a van big enough to have everything I need to get away from everybody. Looking back, I can’t believe I thought wild camping with a family and a California was remotely possible or well thought through – at least for us.

Anyway, the post was more meant to highlight that I really can’t see how it’s such a lauded van for quality or attention to detail. Seats, fabrics, colours, unit fit, the Windows were delaminating (10k miles), short table etc. I could have lived with all that for £40k maybe, but not the current price.

Agree completely, total naivety thinking it was doable without an awning. But we hadn’t realised how the inaccessible the limited storage would be…

Edit: was about to add this to the OP, but I think I read so much borderline evangelical posts all over the net, that it was fine for a young family of four without an awning (and I wanted to believe it). I don’t want my weekends to be a military exercise in planning, my week is enough of that, but it’s how I think people must get it to work for them.

Good on then indulge me, what is the style of Australian and NZ wines, I’d be hard pushed to pick a style of France, the variation is huge from pish/cask to fantastic bottles.

I know you weren’t asking me, but if you’re going to accept mouthfeel as a character or style (and I reckon you will), then you might argue that the higher average alcohol is a defining style of Oz/NZ; and lower alcohol between 11.5 and 13 as a style of France for the most typical vintages.

I’ve had some exceptional wines from NZ and Oz, but I tend to prefer the lighter alcohol from some winemakers in cooler spots like Margaret River, Pemberton and so on.

Do you need the animation?

I’ve never, ever seen a PP presentation that was improved by an animation. Broad, sweeping statement, I know.

Oh, plus I got some expanding foam to fill the gap between the bottom of the door and the floor, plus the gaps around the inside construction of the door itself. Had a year or two of going over the foam with kids, toddlers and motorbikes and its proved to be pretty much perfect.

I spent just £60 or so putting down the rubber inter-locking floor mats from CostCo/Halfords, I can’t remember which.

Quicker than painting, easier to replace a damaged tile than carpet, easier to clean than carpet and definitely controlled the dust instantly…

munrobiker…

.

Well there you go. Luckily my 15 year old self (and view of the world) was never online 🙂

There was a young lad setting the world alight (by his own measure), kind of like a love child of hora and GW: moonshine, I think he was.

Might well be on here still, probably more 25 now than 15. His posts were brilliant at the time. 🙂

Edit. He was LukeB latterly, wasn’t he?

Does theprawn post as different user now, or long gone?