Norco Fluid FS 1? I found a few local shops that have it listed (no idea about actual stock) on their website for just under €2800.

https://www.norco.com/bikes/2021/mountain/trail/fluid-fs/fluid-fs-1/

Think you will have to accept that Orbea and YT are out of the running as they’re all sold out.
Of the bikes available or available in the coming weeks/months I’d put the Spectral or the Meta tr at the top.
The spectral is over budget but they do offer the Klarna payment which might give you enough time to save up. If not I’d get the best Meta you can afford as that is a great frame and ripe for upgrading as and when you can.

Thanks for the tip, I didn’t know about Klarna. I could save up, it’s not just about that, the €3000 budget is also a “mental cap”, it’s so much money to me already. 😅

OK, turns out I had the wrong information, we have to pay VAT + import taxes on stuff coming from the UK. Bird is out…

Yeah that’s what i’m afraid of, i’ll wait forever and miss the summer entirely… But getting a bike that i’m not too stoked on just because it was in stock sucks as well. For example a Giant dealer told me that the 2022 models were supposed to come out in mid August, and Orbea usually releases new models in July-August as well. But who knows if you’ll be able to buy the bikes immediately, what kind of specs they’ll have, and if they’re going to jack up the prices or not.

The Bird is a very strong contender. In my build I went full SLX with SLX 4 pots and that came out to €3500 (+shipping which is 140 pounds). The Deore build with REs for €3300 is pretty good.

Both the Orbea and the Giant have low end Shimano hubs. I watched a video about the rear hub and to my surprise they use cartridge bearings. The engagement is pretty nice as well for such cheap hubs. The M1900 wheelset is certainly nice, although it uses the 3 pawl system with pretty crappy engagement and changing it out to the ratchet system isn’t cheap. But I see so many “no name” wheelsets on bikes in this price range that i’d be perfectly happy with M1900s.

BTW I still have a Rose Root Miller 2 on order. 😀 Nothing special but pretty nicely made alu Horst link frame, Pike with 2.1 Charger, Select + piggyback shock, Formula Cura 4 brakes with 200/180 rotors, M1900 wheels, DHR2s, Deore/SLX/XT mix, Rose dropper all for €2600. But the delivery has been pushed back to late August and i’m not too stoked on the slack STA (long legs). They might also change up the specs now because they simply can’t get the parts for the current specs.

Checked Commencal, the Meta TR is a sweet looking frame but again the €3000 build is pretty meh when it comes to components. 😥

Vitus stock update

https://vitusbikes.com/pages/2021-vitus-bikes-stock-availability

Damn that’s pretty good! Unfortunately while I wouldn’t have to pay import taxes for stuff coming from the UK, when I change the country from the UK to Hungary on CRC or Wiggle the price of the Escarpe 29 CRS goes from 2700 pounds to 3270 pounds… CRC said it’s due to different marketing strategies and VAT rate. I bought a bunch of stuff from Wiggle in the past and I don’t think the price jump was this big. 😥

It sounds like you have a desire for the kit you get on the German direct brands at 3000 euros, but want something you perceive to be a better quality frame / possibly with more modern geo then the shorter travel models have.

I think so, but those bikes exist, the problem is stock. For example I could get an Orbea Occam H20 for around €3000 with a brake upgrade. Sweet geo, beautiful frame, 34 Performance fork with DPS Performance shock, Deore, SLX and XT bits, 4 pot Deore brake upgrade, not too bad wheels with RaceFace rims and Shimano hubs. Or I could get a Giant Trance X2 for the same price. Awesome frame, awesome geo, slightly lower end spec. But again, zero stock. I thought maybe there are more bikes like these and I just simply don’t know about them. The alu YT Jeffsy looks awesome, but again I have no idea how much they cost because everything is out of stock on the website and it doesn’t even show prices (as far as I can see). I don’t have a problem with German direct to consumer brands/bikes, i’m just a bit afraid of “cheap” carbon FS frames, but that might be dumb. For example if Canyon had a slightly more modern Neuron with an alu frame in the €2600-3000 price range, i’d be all over it.

I’ll check out Cube, thanks.

Yeah the Aether 9 looks sweet, but it’s a bit over budget. Even with a pretty mild bild, Pike, Select+RT ,SLX, M1900 wheels, Bird dropper, it’s €3500 + shipping.
Maybe i’ll have to up my budget a bit…

I don’t know what fork and shock the alu stumpjumper has but I’d be prioritising that over what drivetrain it comes with. I bought an Ibis Ripmo AF for exactly that reason. It was £2800 with an NX groupset but has DVO suspension and a really nice wheelset. You can then upgrade the drivetrain as it wears out.

I’m not a drivetrain snob at all but i’d really like at least GX when it comes to SRAM. I know I can always upgrade later but i’d like to buy things once. Yeah the cassette and chain and chainring wears out, but even if I wanted to go XD i’d need to change out the freehub for example.
The wheelset on the Alloy Comp is some kind of OEM thing with who knows what kind of hubs. It comes with a 34 Rhythm and a DPS Performance which is nothing special in this price range.
It’s a cool frame but I feel like i’m paying for the name and the value is kinda meh. I’d just like a decent mid range build with GX/Deore/SLX with not completely no name wheels and decent suspension. A lot of brands offer that in this price range but again the issue is stock…
I didn’t even know Ibis was a thing in Europe, i’ll check it out.

Have you looked at this?
https://www.propain-bikes.com/en/bikes/trail/hugene/

Little bit over budget and the base model doesn’t have a dropper, but it’s arguably more like a mid-range spec anyway.

No idea on availability though.

Yes, awesome bike, bit out of budget. I wish they had an AL version like on the Tyee.

Thank you everyone!

So…

The queue is constantly getting bigger so you have to get in the queue and mark your spot now if you want a chance later on in the year.

You can’t wait till later on in the year when stock arrives and then decide to buy one then.

I’d like to get in a queue, but most of the time I just can’t. For example as I said I messaged Giant and Orbea dealers, they simply said they can’t order the 2021 models and that’s it. No queue for the 2022 models, no pre order, no reserving etc. I messaged CRC if they know when the Vitus Escarpe is going to be in stock again, and I got an automatic message back saying they can’t provide information about product availability dates, no pre orders, no reserving etc. Same for YT, the website just shows everything as out of stock and that’s it.

The Canyon Neuron looks okay, but it feels a bit outdated and TBH i’m a bit afraid of “cheaper” carbon Canyon frames, i’ve heard some horror stories. YTs look good but everything is out of stock and I can’t even see the prices. The Radon Skeen Trail and Slide Trail look pretty good on paper, but i’ve read that the frames are not really there in terms of quality, for example i’ve read a review where even with the stock setup the rear flexed so much that the tyre rubbed the seat stays. And that headtube… The Stumjumper looks good but it’s way out of my price range, and with the alu version I get NX for like €3100…

Am I being picky? 😥

BTW as far as I know, we don’t have to pay any import taxes or VAT etc. for stuff coming from the UK.

Haha, i’ve been dealing with foot pain ever since i’ve switched to clips. :D Let’s trade feet, you in?

Just Sunrace so far?

And SRAM with the SX and NX Eagle cassettes (they’re HG, not XD). I’m sure there are others and probably a bunch of Chinese manufacturers, i’m not that up to date with cassette releases for the HG freehub body. :(

However if this Sunrace one fits on an 8-11sp freehub then it fits on one and can be used on any 8-11sp hub including Pro 2. In theory.

Manufacturers are doing the exact same thing with 12spd HG cassettes as they did with 11spd HG MTB cassettes. They offset the biggest cog and push it towards the spokes, no need for a longer freehub body. SRAM did the same thing with XD when they jumped from 11 to 12spd.
I remember that on the old SRAM site they specifically stated that the PG-1230 11-50 12spd fits on 8-9-10spd freehubs.

@geex Which Chiner rings would you recommend?

That SRAM won’t fit. Unfortunately 80 quid is normal for a narrow wide ring in this size. I bought my SRAM Rival/Force 1 chainring for €75… So stupid.

@molgrips A SRAM SX/NX Eagle will fit on there too. As it was mentioned previously 8-9-10spd, and MTB 11-12spd cassettes fit on the same HG freehub. You only need a wider freehub for road 11spd stuff.

My mom. :)

I’d just go Shimano, but make sure you get one that fits your crank, there has been small changes. If it’s an older crank your only options are probably Deore or Tiagra (BB52 and BB-RS500).
A buddy of mine tried to use a newer Ultegra BB (that requires the adapter for the wrench) with an old Tiagra crankset and it wasn’t a good fit.

Can’t go wrong with GravelKing SKs (how could you go wrong with a tire named like that?).
They have more traction everywhere than a slick, but they barely feel any slower. They aren’t super heavy, or super thin and fragile. They are pretty darn durable. They are available in a bunch of sizes, multiple colors, and now even a “Plus” version with a bit more protection.

I’ve ridden mine pretty much everywhere. Pavement, gravel, dirt roads, rocky singletrack etc. Zero issues, love them.

The cable pull and pull ratio is different between Shimano MTB and road stuff. (Cable pull is one factor, another one is how much the RD moves sideways for a certain amount of cable pull) There is an adapter that lets you use a MTB rear derailleur with road shifters:

Tanpan

Or you can get a GRX RD that’s essentially a mountain RD. This will work out of the box with road levers:

https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/product/component/grx-11-speed/RD-RX812.html

I know i’ve seen people using MTB calipers with road levers, but let’s wait for someone else to chime in that has actual experience.

I like being clipped in too, but I would like it even more if the occasional pain and numbness was completely gone… Anyways I think i’m gonna cop a pair of lightly used Mallets and see how things go.

Goddamit! At this point i’m also considering just going back to flats… To be honest I never had a decent flat setup with good shoes and good pedals.

@dc1988
Thanks, for some reason didn’t think about going the used route.

Oh no, what’s the problem with 5.10s? :D My Hellcats are the first SPD shoes i’ve tried that seem to work with stupid orthopedic feet.

What’s the real deal with Mallets? One review says they’re the best things ever, and the next review says it’s impossible to clip out of them and you’ll definitely crash.

Are people just dumb and don’t bother to set them up properly? I really want to try them, but since they cost around €125 i’m a bit scared.

@wzzzz I guess i’m just not hard enough on my bike, and i’m the odd one out for being careful when washing my bike. In your case I kinda understand how/why the BB got destroyed (not saying you did anything wrong by riding your bike).

However, it still doesn’t make sense to me how a BB gets destroyed in 10 rides, or a 1000ks of road riding. Maybe it will make sense when it happens to me, hopefully it will never happen tho. :D

I’ve been us SPD’s for 25 years now, by the sounds of it these soft soled shoes like the 5 10 are the issue, they aren’t made for real xc riding, buy some proper xc shoes, Shimano do a really good range, any of Thier ME range would be good, do not go for the flat shoe style else you’ll have the same issues

I know that everyone always says the harder the better when it comes to soles, and while that might be true for a lot of folks, for people with problematic feet a slightly softer, more flexible sole can sometimes work better. Not always, just sometimes. I’ve had plenty of problems in rock hard road shoes too.
(The sole on the 5-10s is not that soft. I’d say comparable to a lot of XC shoes in the €100 range) In my case the root of the problem is the sole being hard on SPD shoes…

It’s a bit more complicated than that but it’ll fit. You could go up to 12spd.

If that is the case then that means that mech can do a max of 47 teeth?

Which therefore means I could run a 11-46 with a 36/24 eg 35 + 12 = 47

The former gives a lowest ratio of 0.61, but the later would be 0.58

I think I’m understanding that correctly?

The capacity is 47T, but check the link, it’s all there. Shimano says (again, link) that the biggest cassette you can run in a 2×11 setup is an 11-42, and you can only use the 11-46 with a single ring. No idea why that is. I’m sure people have pushed these RDs, do a bit of research (can’t help you more than that, sorry!)

I think you’d have a harder time finding stock of the current generation groupsets… :D As far as I know only XT and XTR had triples in this generation, M7000 also had a double option with the 11-42 and front rings with a 10T difference. And of course in theory Shimano has 2×12 groupsets now.

I’ve heard that the pull ratio difference between 10spd and 11spd MTB rear derailleurs is so small that you can mix them. Is that true? If yes, there is the XT M8000 long cage RD which according to even the factory specs can run a 40-30-22 with an 11-40.

https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/component/deorext-m8000/RD-M8000-SGS.html

Loctite.

@whitestone I guess my BB must be blessed or something then. I never powerwash my bike and i’m very careful how much water I use near bearings. I also take off the crankset every now and then to clean the chainring and the surrounding area, and while i’m there I wipe off the BB seals and give everything a fresh coat of grease. (That’s one of the things I really like about GXP, how easy it is to take off and install the cranks) Maybe that’s why? No idea, but mine seriously spins as smooth as the day I installed it about two years ago. No idea how many Ks, more than 10 rides tho that’s for sure. :)

I don’t understand. I’ve read such bad reviews about GXP before I bought a SRAM groupset, but my stock Truvativ one is 2 years old and still spins smooth. How are people destroying these things so quickly? Not trying to argue, genuinely curious.

I’d recommend getting decent insoles. To me my Hellcats are the most comfortable SPD shoes i’ve tried yet, but like in every other SPD shoe, i’ve had some pain and aching here and there (just not as much as before). I still needed a new insole to get rid of all the problems.

I use these:
https://icebug.com/insoles

Yes, unfortunately they are pricey (like pretty much every other decent insole).

I haven’t used chamois cream yet. I’m a bit of a noob really, I only started doing 1.5+ hour rides regularly last summer, before that I was in just regular underwear. I’ll order some when I buy the bibs/liners.

Yeah I haven’t had issues with the liners/undershorts digging into my waist, and I don’t think i’ve ever adjusted them mid ride. They don’t seem to slide up or down for me, they just stay in one place. That’s what i’m trying to find out, if there are any advantages to bibs other than that.

I bought my humvees and they came with click liners which is handy as I have another pair of Endura shorts with same click systems

I have the Hummvees too, but as I said while I liked the stock liners, the padding packed out in them after about 1-1.5 months of use. I don’t even use the click system tho, I feel more comfortable if the liners are a bit higher up than the shorts.

I think bums must be as varied as heads which makes recommendations difficult. I just can’t get on with bibs, either as unders or on a road bike .I find having my nethers pulled up sharply very uncomfortable yet I really like the Decathlon inners somebody else found a pain. Unfortunately even if you can try them in a shop there is no indication of how they will be on s 5 hour ride.

Yeah I guess it’s like asking for saddle recommendations. I guess I just don’t want to spend 60-90 pounds on something that might not even work out, but it seems like there is no other way. I’m leaning towards the Enduras because I at least know their lower end liner did work for me (for a while) and i’m familiar with their sizing. Although i’ve heard the sizing is all over the place.
Now i just need to decide between bibs vs liners… My only problem is all that extra material on the bibs look scary. I don’t live in the UK so i’m not familiar with the climate there but the summers are pretty darn miserable here.

So same pad as the Singletrack liner (which is good news). Decisions, decisions…

I’ve got the Endura bibs with cargo pockets. They’re ace. Thinner than regular Lycra so not hot. Tried the bladder in them, but it’s like an ice pack in the middle of your back.

Which model is that exactly? The Singletrack bib liner?

I just bin the liners and wear bibs under baggies. They stay in place and the pads are inevitably better than liners.

Are bibs + baggies hotter than liners + baggies, or no significant difference? Where I live the summers are quite hot, 33-34C isn’t uncommon. I think what i’m combating most is sweat to be honest…

I was mainly looking at the Endura Singletrack liner because in theory it uses the same pads as some of their decent looking bibs. Still not top of the line stuff tho (according to their specs).

For long rides I’ve been finding bibs more comfortable. Morvello the current choice.

Never tried bibs, why do you find them more comfy? I’ve heard that a benefit is that they don’t move up and down because of the straps, but to be honest I can’t remember that ever happening with baggies and undershorts. Any other benefits? Do you go bib and baggie or just bib? :)

Pretty good price too, thanks!