OK, I started doing some reading… I read VPP and DW-link and drop link…
VPP, DW, drop… VPP, DW, drop, VPP, DW, drop…

(it’s a little bit like having been locked in the early 90s and now discovering the wonders of full suspension development in time lapse mode)

Simple is good.

😕 I will grab that review when I’m home
brand-wise it would fit 😉

it looks ace on that pic – that’s for sure!

Santa Cruz Superlight

well, I am aware of it but somehow assumed that it would be not very sophisticated in the way it reacts to impacts etc. I read a review somewhere that wasn’t too enthusiastic.

do you reckon it could fit?

I am currently trying to get test-rides for the weekend sorted. Not so easy to get hold of the exact bikes though. Whytes not available at all.

Might have to start with testing any available full suspension bike. But that should give me at least an initial idea whether I might like it or not and I can take things from there.

Many thanks for all the advise – I’ll keep you posted!

I think there’s an easy way of showing that brand is not just hot air but an actual part of the product experience:
– imagine you would have hundreds of bike brands like today, but legal regulations would ban any branding, e.g. bikes would all come in white and instead of the brand there would be numbers and instead of modells letters
– for sure the genius of some companies would shine through and the “357 K” would still be a cult bike for those who know, just like the “427 N”
– but we would still miss something, wouldn’t we?

Now we have those who de-decal their bikes and components. What about them? Well, it only works for them, because most bikes are branded. It wouldn’t be very cool in a world with unbranded bikes. People would probably invent their own branding.

🙂

but I am digressing slightly…

Whyte, Whyte, Norco, Rocket, Whyte, Whyte, Norco, Rocket. Whyte, Whyte, Norco, Rocket, Whyte, Whyte, Norco, Rocket, Anthem? Whyte, Whyte, Norco, Rocket, Whyte, Whyte, Norco, Rocket. Whyte, Whyte, Norco, Rocket, Whyte, Whyte, Norco, Rocket… (to be continued)

risk compensation

!that was the term I was looking for 🙂
well, I guess I won’t tell my wife about it

[there might be a parallel to cars here, a low-tech car can be a lot of fun at relative low speed whereas a perfect modern car can be boring at insane speeds]

concerning brands and image: it’s not all marketing bullshit, brands do have an important role of being an orientation in any market where the number of product variants/makes/modells and the perceived product variety is huge while actual product differentiation is pretty low

Side note:
my wife asked if I would be any safer on a FS compared to my current HT

Good question, eh?

Would I? Initially maybe. Ultimately I might start doing things at speeds I shouldn’t do at all no matter at which speed.

But that’s only a side note.

Thanks for still being with me in this thread! I do appreciate it!

how much are you actually looking to spend though?

does 1800 to 2500 sound like a wide spread? New, or 2nd hand from a local shop. I would probably spend a little more on a Rocket, if I’d be sure that it is the right bike for me. Which leads me to roverp.’s point ->

but after that I have a long list of wants

yes, ’tis true! There are some brands/bikes I would pay more for and others I wouldn’t want no matter what. And one might even be able to rationalise this but ultimately they would just give me a higher value “owner experience”. There’s no denying.

I clearly have a soft spot for none-mainstream brands. Like Cotic, maybe Kona, Salsa but also some Genesis bikes. Then there are brands I don’t know very well yet, so I am more open. Like Whyte. And I wouldn’t want to be seen on a Canyon even though/because it might be the perfect bike.

With Whyte it’s the reviews and the “looks right”-looks combined with that 430mm chainstay (by the way: I want a low frame, long top tube, short chainstay).

takisawa2 would say get a Niner SIR9.

-> which would be on my dream hardtail list (and a Pace RC129, a Solaris, a Canfield Nimble9, current Soul…)

Current version of WhatMTB has their ‘trail bike of the year’

-> which I have right at the side of my bed 🙂

Norco, Whyte, Santa Cruz, Giant…
the answers in this thread have been more helpful though

Which one do you fancy? You know really.

and that’s the thing: I don’t!
I would be so much easier to say: sod the good advise – deep in my heart I want that one anyway! Just because it looks right! And just because I like the brand or something.

And with hardtails it would be easy: I could list at least five 26 and 29 hardtails I really would love to have! [this is where takisawa2 would say: Easy, forget FS, go Solaris! 🙂 ]

But with FS bikes I am pretty much clueless (and somewhat want-less). While I am still struggling to define what I need I don’t even know what I would want. Poor me! 😉

Look, as a Cotice fan-boy I kind of like the idea of getting a Cotic Rocket, but I am not sure if it’s the right bike for me (too much travel, weight, slack). So I kind of wait for the short-travel one. But it’s also expensive just to find out that I might not like it.

Anyway: it’s probably one of the best problems to have and an exciting phase where you think about getting a new bike and are still searching.

🙂

the Meta 4X looks like A LOT of fun for going into the nearest neck of woods and let it rip
but would you take into the Alps for epic day-trips?

“That would be a hardtail then!”

Damn! 😉

That would be a hardtail then!

Damn! 😉

ah, OK, I somehow thought only those with a link in the chainstays are actual 4-bars

again while reading your words – and that’s how helpful forum questions/answers can be – something became clearer to me:
– I certainly want to be able to stand up and pedal uphill
– and I definitely want to be able to sprint out of corners and on flat sections

Homework for tonight: read that droplink thesis by Cy again
(and finally try to make sense of it all)

try to find some similar text on DW links

somehow I thought ‘4-bar’ is the only way to go,
then again I havn’t really tried to understand FS until very recently

Trance is slightly heavier, longer travel with better standover design – more “Trail” orientated.
Anthem is an XC race bike that feels “OK” on the trails – more likely to feel like a HT!

and while I read that something says “Go TRAIL! If you do FS don’t try to stick to XC too much.” 🙂

the short Rocket starts to make more and more sense
Anthem will definitely get further investigation
Blur? yes, but costly as you say

I wouldn’t mind a 29er HT as a do it all “bah, I don’t need full suspension”-bike. I actually have a soft-spot for fun Trail 29er as a concept BUT I guess I’m ripe to give FS a go, so a 29er HT got to wait until I return to HT as the only way to go (if I will return that is)

By the way: I don’t really get the difference in concept between Giant Trance and Anthem. Trance has a little more travel and a little slacker HA. It seems to be only a little different is that right?

First of all, I think you need to be clearer about what it is you intend to ride with the new bike.

Fair enough:
I do ride Singletracks enthusiastically, but not too technical, not too steep, no rock-gardens, only minor jumps, no drops. Once or twice a year I go to the Alps. And coped fine on the Soul. I wouldn’t mind going to Bike Parks more often.

Then again, one man’s technical is another man’s boring, isn’t it?
I ride with guys who ride all-mountain full sussers a lot and am at least as quick as they are but what does that tell you? :-/ They might be slow by your standards anyway.

My point is in a way, that I might not know what I will be riding as soon as I have a different bike. I might start feeling more confident, do more jumps etc.

Thus all the shared experience here, especially from those who did the move themselves, is valuable forme. I’m not after the definite answer to my question anyway as I know that ultimately only I can answer my own questions by riding a few bikes.

So keep it coming!
Did someone for example move from Soul to Rocket?
What was it like? Initially awkward, ultimately perfect and the Soul was never used again?

On the 29er topic: I had an Inbred29 before the Soul. I’m still missing the traction in corners but I didn’t like the comparatively slow steering. Then again 29er might have moved on and I could do two things in one step: from 26HT to 29FS.

By the way: the thing that currently annoys me most about the Soul is lack of front-end stiffness. So I’m thinking of getting a stiffer fork, through axle, stiff front-wheel for the Soul anyway (currently running DT Swiss M1600 with QR in Magura Durin). But that’s another topic.

@Mugboo:
– yes, a Medium Soul with 100mm fork, 70mm stem and low-rise bars for a 6ft guy is rather low and not very slack, probably even on the steep side of things by “today’s standards” (will check Cotic HA calculator, but I reckon it’s +/- 70°)
– I like the agility of a steep headangle and found too slack a headangle slow and somewhat isolated doing its own thing somewhere to far in front of me
– then again it might be a riding-style topic, too which I might/want to/will have to adjust to with a different bike
– hence the question should I go proper different or will I hate it
– I mean, seasoned as I am an new bike is also a chance to re-learn, which is good I guess
– am I right that you have to “lean” slack bikes more, lean like: commit more to the corner?!
– I will test a few bikes (thx for the Scott Genius and Spesh Camber hints!)

@fortunateson: thanks, that was helpful indeed! Because I like the “you can lean on it and get away with it”-aspect as that would be one of the things that would actually motivate me to buy into something new and different – but a Five? :-/ I don’t know, they look so crude. But I will take your word for it and have a closer look at one of them. Cheers!

@grumpyfuttock: I kind of see what you mean – let me explain:
– a proper 2nd bike was meant to mean: I currently have about 4-6 bikes, but the Soul is the only bike I choose for a proper 3h bike tour, the others are toys (Trailstar, BMX) or retro bikes (Breezer, DEER) which I only use for short stints, ride with the kids, pump-track. The Soul is my only ‘proper’ do-it-all bike and I would love to have a second ‘proper’ do-it-all bike, just different enough to justify having a 2nd one.
– my verdict on the Rocket is somewhat crap because I only sat on it for 3 minutes tooling around on a car park – mentioning it was meant to confirm that I am intrigued on the one hand side and kind of scared on the other because it is so different that I can’t really tell whether I would like it or not – go figure! 😉
– finally I might not seem to have a clue of what I am on about because I have no clue of FS bikes, I mean do the have to be plush sofas to be any good or is there something like a responsive springy FS bike which I think would be more to my liking but is possibly totally pointless as a FS bike to start with
– what I liked about the Rocket was that it had a round steering feel to it despite that mega-slack head angle

@Jason: Anthem, hm?! I am reading good things about them all the time – I will have a closer look again

P.S.: ahh, forgot to add 2-3 things
– longer travel on Cotic Soul than 100mm made it feel to me like a wheel-barrow (slow steering somewhere to far in front of me)
– my bikes need to be agile, I want to flic-flac them through the twisties even if they are FS
– I kind of like: 1) the Rocket because it’s a Cotic 😉 2) Liteville 301 3) Whyte M-109 tests were an inspiring read 3) Whyte S-129 too though… 4) Bionicon Golden Willow anyone?

Good move to go into Enduro Racing and to sponsor local talent.
Good to see a team kit.

Interesting that they didn’t really use the Cotic face and the Wrap-logo theme not at all.
Don’t like the face too much anyway but miss the Wrap-logo.

Then again the team kit won’t be for sale anyway, I assume.
(gillet in M please, shorts in L)

🙂

Wasn’t asking for a tarmac tyre, though. Think more of multi-storey car park-style painted concrete.

Big Apple classified as cruiser/balloon bike tyre. Sounds a little recreational to me.

Sorry, the 2nd Ellsworth won’t win this competition. It’s not half as ugly as the first.

Pinetree, you probably feel honoured, don’t you? Rightly so!

The last one should be considered a piece of art. Early phase of Pop Rat Brutalism or something.

Yonna gowa, Flashheart! 😉

Schwalbe Table Tops have been recommended to me in a shop:
“E v e r y b o d y rides them. They are ideal for indoor parks, too.”

While I am not a big Schwalbe fan they certainly look suitable. Kind of siped rectangular blocks length-wise on the shoulder might help traction while cornering and they certainly “feel” very tacky.

Bike clothing is a fashion disaster full stop

yes, and it get’s even worth when it tries to be fashionable :-))

it hurt like hell so no loss of sensation even in the cold

oh, good for you!
that it hurt… I mean… it’s good that you could feel the pain…
…sounds all wrong, but you know what I mean! ;-))

more like “reinforced knee warmers” (the sort of thing you’d wear under your jeans.)

as mentioned above:
that’s G-Forms then! (they also come in black)

insensitivity to cold must be due to too many frost bites when you were young! 🙂

(i.e. shorts as part of school uniform based on calendar not temperature)

I read a lot of threads like this before I finally bought mine.
Expectations were mile high. It didn’t disappoint.

->

puts a massive smile on my face

It helps if you like hardtails made out of steel, though.

Baggies over thermal tights is awful. I thought folk quit that malarky around 2006.

So what’s the adequate alternative to this malarky then:
– Baggies over 3/4 thermal tights and frost bite on your calves?
– Baggies over 3/4 thermal tights and wooly socks up to your knees?
– thermal tights without Baggies?
– a kilt?

I mean, I totally agree that Baggies over long tights is a major fashion disaster but to some extent I hope the rest of the world can cope. I can. 🙂

And there is worth:
– Baggies over thermal tights plus Neoprene overshoes. :-))

By the way: nice shorts Rocketdog! What are they?

Cool! Many thanks for your replies! Very helpful!

Had neither the DMR tyres on my radar nor actual road tyres.

Currently trying to find out the compound of those road tyres as I have a feeling they might be optimized for less wear and therefore a little too hard for my case.

Holy Roller, DMR Moto RT and also Kenda K-Rad look all pretty suitable/similar but the later two have these little knobs which “look” grippier.

Also came across Specialized Rhythm Lite (which have pretty soft 50a compound on the shoulders) and Specialized Compound tyres.

Hookworm looks the business, too but is too wide for my ride.

Many thanks!

Hi mboy, pretty lonely thread, isn’t it? 🙂

Would be Spitfire for me. Others to burly-heavy-jumpy and short for my case (hacking about, odd stint to Pump Track, no jumping).

Probably depends on whether you put the emphasis on “26” BMX” or “getting to work on”.

Anyway: BUMP for the night crowd to give mboy and me some company and a little more diverse feedback. Pleaze!
Because it seems strange that they have been around for a good few years (9?!) and nobody knows them. Also can’t pin down where they actually come from. Taiwan? Seem to sell pretty much around the world with some spanish and eastern-european bias. as far as one can’t tell from their hp: http://www.fireeye-bike.com

Bump. Identical situation here. Same question. 🙂

got Mud X -> works for me!

Definitely substantially better and more defined grip compared to the Ardent 2.4 (which was great throughout summer).

So thanks for your recommendations!

Many thanks – all of this helped! Might also consider going for a BMX instead.

THANKS!

That Gary Fisher bike up there is just a great piece of MTB history!

It looked like that at a point of time when most still ran riser bars and short stems (OK they do now again…), looong chainstays and huge frame sizes. It defined the way our bikes would look for years and seeing it in MBA was mind-blowing (at the time (for me)).

(doesn’t justify the 5 digit price, but worthy exhibit for any MTB hall of fame)

Many thanks, so far!

Leaning towards the cheapo on-one Geax offer at the moment.
Though Bontragers get very passionately recommended…

Find it a little difficult to determine whether the terrain is rather sloppy in a loose or in a clay-y way… 😕
I guess it’s mostly muddy in a sandy-to-organic way with a lot of leaves strewn in for good measure 🙂

Stumbled across this overview while googling some of your recommendations:
Mud Tyre overview by bikemagic.com <- comments there include some more opinions