Fair enough, it’s your back after all.

Orange P7.

Don’t get a Chameleon unless you only do short rides, it’s a play bike, a very good one, but a play bike nonetheless. Don’t see the point of an Argon at all – yes, it’s built like a tank but if i wanted a tank, i’d get… a tank! Chameleon/Stiffee are far more preferable and far less ugly for that kind of frame (imho, of course).

But do it all? I’d go for a P7. Some would choose a Soul (never liked mine but horses for courses etc), others, yes, a 19. Anti-chic option: 456.

Owned quite a few and have settled on a P7. Truly versatile, as someone has said it rides like a lighter bike, hard as ****.

The local state school outperforms a number of local ‘independent’ schools so it can be done. I’ve been appalled by the weak intellects of a number of privately educated individuals I’ve met; they did, however, demonstrate arrogance and presumption to impressive levels – I suspect that’s what you’re paying as you move down the private school league tables, away from the good ones.

If you’re looking to work for them and will be moving down then move (to the) North of Derby and commute downwards. You’ll then be closer to the better riding (Belper upwards).

(Since I moved to Belper I’ve barely taken any road trips with the bike as there’s a load of off piste trails to discover)

a few years after the ultramagnetic MCs but you gotta love Dr. Octagon’s ‘Dr. Octagonecologyst’ – lyrics, beats and djqbert (check ou the last minute of blue flowers). Earth people… Kool Keith’s other personas also work for me. Dr Dooom ‘First Come, First Served’ is some great dark moments “While ya’ll talk gangsta, I push body parts in shoppin’ carts”

Weight, strength, price, tubesets, finish are all objective.

But it’s the ride that matters and that’s not measurable. Objectivity? Lolza.

Differences in geometry in the frame cost nothing

But is worth so much more than the difference in cost between the tubes.

I’m sorry to be blunt but there is no ‘objective’ measure of a bike’s worth just as there is no objective ‘rider’. Choosing, at random, to use the material a frame’s made of is an insufficient measure, hence my mention of design.

As for designing the frame itself, do you think the Soul (or 456, or Genesis Altitude, or Dialled PA) were cheaper to design? Orange are the only company that pays designers, builds prototypes, goes through testing? Obviously not.

I didn’t say they were cheaper but that Orange had designed a better bike for riders like me. Their design is better for me therefore I value the design costs of the bike over and above materials costs. The ‘superior’ steel that made the Soul was of less importance to me as I didn’t enjoy the feel of the ride. For me, at least, the better design of the P7 is worth the extra cost.

As in most instances, subjectivity is where it’s at when it comes to choosing the best frame.

Geometry does not cost money.

So the design is done by little elves at night whilst the bikemaker and his wife are sleeping?

Yes, of course it is. Silly me.

Even if you prefer the handling you still have to admit it’s not good value in comparison, it’s at least 50% overpriced compared to the competition

I do prefer the handling. That’s what it’s all about and therefore worth the premium. I bet my neighbour could design a bike with 853 tubing*, 953 even, but i wouldn’t want to ride it. Whatever suits your riding best is what you should be riding regardless of material, amount of suspension or the name on the downtube.

*Not saying that any current UK 853 tubed bike is ‘like that’, just an example in extremis.

the Soul is a much better frame.

I disagree. The P7 is a much better frame for me, perhaps the Soul is a better frame for you but, having owned both I would choose the P7 every time.

The Dialled PA that replaced the 07 is a much better frame.

Again, I’d disagree. I found the PA okay but would choose the P7 over it anytime. Up, down, round and round, the P7 is a better frame for me.

The OP should test all his top five choices and find what suits his riding best.

My do-it-all bike, my favourite bike. Points of comparison (ie. my previously owned recent hardtails): Soul, 456, Prince Albert, Inbred, the one i can’t remember, E8, Kaboom, Armadillo. (Plus some FS but they were too dull to recall). Better for me than all of them.

Climbs better than you think, is more agile than you’d imagine – in other words, nicely balanced – and also hard as nails. Love it.

Sex
The Great Outdoors
My children.
Growing stuff.
The infinite thoughts which the human mind is capable of.

Eh? Since when have actors had principles? He’s been bought by another ad agency to provide a Trustworthy Voice™, his stock in trade. He makes a living by playing make believe. None of it’s real, he’s not real. Why shouldn’t he take the advertisers money and run? It’s not like it was That Iggy Moment.

Once or twice week we reach for Green’s.

My youngest slept next to us in a dropside cot until she could crawl in with us and then she slept either with us or in her cot (which didn’t get in the way of mutual aerobics with MrsHeathen – you’ve just gotta take your chances when they come). We gave her her own room at about 18mths/2yrs and she was fine going to it. The only trouble we had with her was colic. She was also bottle fed. She’s ahead of her peers (which makes me laugh because there are some real pressure-parents at her nursery), happy, and pretty balanced for a three year old.

She’s my third and what I’ve found is that happy kids are the best ones to have. If you deny them stuff during the first couple of years because of some spurious regime then it’s a bad idea; they learn, “No,” pretty well from two onwards and that’s the best time to do it. Some self-appointed experts are just control freaks with issues. Don’t listen to anyone, me included, just listen to your child and your missus.

Make your child comfortable and happy. Try your damnedest not to let them wind you up because they can smell hostility a mile off – that’s no screaming brat, that’s your actual, happened on Earth rebirth. Look after ’em.

It depends how specialised your tastes were/are but if you have a few rare ones then GEMM[/url] is really good. It’s also worth having a look at it to guesstimate market values. Not all CDs go for peanuts, rarer ones go for hundreds.

Yep, just got to get my timing right in spending enough time at the outlaws before extracting missus and spawn to get back in time to watch it….

(I know there’s iPlayer but where’s the fun in that?)

Just arrived in Derbyshire.

Hmm, no mention of £20s or MTFUpping here. Between this thread and the unironic use of the word, “wimps,” the other day, it’s like STW has opened up a portal to the worst of the 1980s.

You could also get Trend Titanium for nowt for a year[/url].

Highland Park is a bit TOO easy to drink. Me and my missus attacked a bottle on New Year’s Eve of 2006. Caution was thrown to the wind. Poppy turned three this October…

Just watched it on 4oD

and possibly the best shower scene since Psycho.

“Repeat and wash. It’s always repeat and wash.”

Great writing, great performances 😀

bloodynora – Open access’ll be from about 7.30am til about 9am

Given that it was TV, I don’t think it was half bad. I’ll go as far as to say I enjoyed it! Mind you, I sat down knowing it was not going to be like reading a book so I didn’t get upset by the liberties taken to squeeeze it onto a screen. My missus, who hasn’t read the books, also enjoyed so they must have done a good job to please both of us 🙂

It’d be good if it becomes a series – every reference I’ve seen called it a pilot so here’s hoping…

1,000 people standing round some rocks is intimate?

I guess it depends how friendly you are.

“Some rocks.” Lol.

Gutted.

Looking forward to Whistle… One of the torrent sites had a few of the old dramatisations – I downloaded them last year and really enjoyed them. Can’t remember which one it was. Maybe demonoid or thebox. Can find out if you like.

Just watched the programme about the rise and fall and rise and fall of festivals in the uk on bbc4; not bad at all.

It’s a small event, less than a 1000 so quite intimate, very friendly. Open access this year is dawn of the 22nd.

Not going this year myself but have a lovely time if you do 🙂

Environmental groups like the Sierra Club in the US have been very successful in grouping mountain biking with off-roaders / MXers etc. Resulting in loads of aggravation for MTBers with access rights in some parts of the US.

Just had a quick look out the window. We’re still in the UK: I don’t have a basement full of semi-automatic weaponry and anal sex is still legal. God bless Blighty.

<sobs>

Not got mine yet. I’m not sure I’m gonna make it til Monday, I think my whole skin is gonaa fall or something if i don’t get it in 27 minutes from NOW…

..and I know FOR A FACT that ALL post comes via exactly the same route so I can expect my magazine to take EXACTLY the same time to arrive as the thermal brain snood my auntie down the road put through the letterbox this afternoon. And she only made it yesterday.

If we support this, they’ll have us next in their crosshairs.

What a load of alarmist rubbish, “crosshairs,” LOL.

Engines ? legs.

BY A MELONFARMING INNINGS!!

Yeah, Christ’s birthday was shifted from Spring to December 25th midway through the Fourth Century. It was transplanted onto a long series of Winter festivities: the Solstice, Saturnalia and the Roman New Year. Writing about the ritual of Sol Invictus (‘The Undefeated Sun’), Syrus (retrospectively, in the 12th Century) wrote,

“It was a custom of the pagans to celebrate on the same 25 December the birthday of the Sun, at which they kindled lights in token of festivity. In these solemnities and revelries the Christians also took part. Accordingly when the doctors of the Church perceived that the Christians had a leaning to this festival, they took counsel and resolved that the true Nativity should be solemnized on that day.”

In the Julian calendar the solstice would have fallen on, roughly, December 25th.

So, it’s really anyone but Sun-worshipping heathens who can forget the pressies and feasting 🙂

There’s a good argument that Wicca was an invented amalgamation of esoteric magic systems (particularly Aleister Crowley’s thelemic magick), freemason initiation ceremonies and structures and folk magic. Gerald Gardner was pretty key here but others lay claim to it (most noticeably Bill Liddell).

Get them a nice bottle of whisky and turn up round theirs skyclad as a mark of respect 🙂

I’ve had a number of Brit-designed steel hardtails (most of the obvious ones and one or two others) and the P7 is the one I’ve stopped at. For the first time I’m not at all bothered what other frames are being produced or by whom. It’s all I’ve ever asked from a hardtail and I’m happy with it as the basis of my only bike for the UK. Love it.

Primark?

BA and MA in Cultural Studies from East London (before half the staff jumped ship to Goldsmiths). Bits and pieces of research at Goldsmiths and Oxford Brookes, have lectured in Sociology at Keele and Oxford Brookes and Media Studies at Leeds Met. I’m now Senior Lecturer in Sociology at Derby and, for my sins, Assistant Head of Applied Social and Community Studies there.

The next few years are going to be interesting. It’s going to be very tough for most universities but it will probably be the mid-range ones who over-stretched themselves who suffer most. If anyone’s thinking of going then get signed up for September 2011 because most places will guarantee fixed range fees for the next three years for enrolled students but from September 2012 fees will be at the higher level (in some cases over double).

Shirley Hughes

+1 (particularly for girls, natch)

I don’t like to agree with STW’s Monday Club but, yes, guns.
Perhaps a compromise solution: guns + resin meerkats = target practice. The marketing bods behind it all could, possibly, hold the plastic tragic darlings steady.